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Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






Rumours are not relevant to this thread.

I noticed some Warriors at LVO, maybe I am too hard on them but they seem like a mistake, even with a Ghost Ark. Tesseract Arks were everywhere which surprised me.

The level of skill and professionalism at lvo was pretty low, even at the top 50 tables, so if you guys have the money to go and just a decent amount of skill I think you should give it a shot. I didn't watch the Necron guy that was on stream too closely, maybe there is something to learn from the game but I heard it was mostly luck, which is a skill I have already fully mastered. The other game of his I watched got finished up rather quick. The atmosphere at the event was surprisingly chill, a few raised hackes and some salt, pretty much average game table and not the pro experience I anticipated.
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




Pyrothem wrote:
5-1 at LVO against the current meta is impressive no matter how you look at it. Good on ya Eulis Sanders.


Who what? Wow! What was he/she running? What did they get matched against? How did they play tactically to maximize opportunities and mitigate risks?

So many questions!
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






sieGermans wrote:
Pyrothem wrote:
5-1 at LVO against the current meta is impressive no matter how you look at it. Good on ya Eulis Sanders.


Who what? Wow! What was he/she running? What did they get matched against? How did they play tactically to maximize opportunities and mitigate risks?

So many questions!

Eulis Sanders Nihilakh Spearhead: 3 DDA, 4 Destroyers and a heavy, Lord w. Veil, orb and sword. Mephrit Doomwing. Sautekh Spearhead Imotekh WL, 2x TesArk, lonely Heavy Destroyer, Deceiver.

TesArks and Deceiver popped up a lot, doom6 was everywhere.

27/19 vs 3x Lord of Skulls
36/15 vs Cultist spam with Terminator and Bloodbomb
34/21 vs Horror screen with bloodbomb, DPs and a couple of KoS.
36/14 vs Iron Hands successor filth. He seized and Deceivered up his DDAs to be in LOS and range and wiped out his opponent in no time.
34/17 vs Chaos Knights. Stream game. Eulis got an early lead his opponent could not recover from.
25/35 vs RG successor filth.



   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 Tauris_Blazestar wrote:
With the Greater Good leak confirming the Imp/GSC/Tau for PA which debunks the rumor of Tau vs DG. How likely is it that Necrons are stuck with DG for our PA book release?


PA is going to have an Imperial Faction in every book. Five bucks say we get stuck with Imperial Guard....and maybe Death Guard.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

I dont care what faction(s) we get in our PA book, as long as we dont have to share the book with three other factions, like in engine war. I play daemons as well, and none of the other factions, which means less rules for each faction, and paying for rules which i dont want.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





No marine faction getting copy&paste datasheets they already had. How many pages ba and da got that added to nothing they didn't have already? Dozens. So those are pages that fit 4th faction easily

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




 vict0988 wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
Pyrothem wrote:
5-1 at LVO against the current meta is impressive no matter how you look at it. Good on ya Eulis Sanders.


Who what? Wow! What was he/she running? What did they get matched against? How did they play tactically to maximize opportunities and mitigate risks?

So many questions!

Eulis Sanders Nihilakh Spearhead: 3 DDA, 4 Destroyers and a heavy, Lord w. Veil, orb and sword. Mephrit Doomwing. Sautekh Spearhead Imotekh WL, 2x TesArk, lonely Heavy Destroyer, Deceiver.

TesArks and Deceiver popped up a lot, doom6 was everywhere.

27/19 vs 3x Lord of Skulls
36/15 vs Cultist spam with Terminator and Bloodbomb
34/21 vs Horror screen with bloodbomb, DPs and a couple of KoS.
36/14 vs Iron Hands successor filth. He seized and Deceivered up his DDAs to be in LOS and range and wiped out his opponent in no time.
34/17 vs Chaos Knights. Stream game. Eulis got an early lead his opponent could not recover from.
25/35 vs RG successor filth.


Interesting!

So, some discussion questions:

What is it about the statline for TArks that makes them so attractive for use?

Whilst Doom6 was ubiquitous, aside from the above result, it doesn’t appear to be ‘enough’ to win. Do we think we need to scrap it as a baseline build assumption and look at other strategies? My gut feel is that the DDA component is super flexible and useful, whilst the Air Wing is less so.

I love the assumptions informing Dynasty choice in the above: given the expectation is the strat’s going to be the use case, giving the Tesla AP-1 is quite an uptick in punch—does this seem to be the dominant strategy for employing this formation?
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





sieGermans wrote:

What is it about the statline for TArks that makes them so attractive for use?


It's more mobile and tougher DDA with slightly less punch(but more on the move). I can see use for it. Also good at clearing W3 models like custodians etc. One of the best units necrons have for that I think

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Jackson, TN

T-arks:
Has an usable 7T with 3+/5++ save. Then Quantum Shielding and living metal.
Main Gun is a tool box, pick the one mode for the target at hand.
Optional guns are medium range, but the 12" move helps. Most likely using 2x Gauss Cannon which is a rather strong gun.
Perfect to run as Sautekh to over come the Heavy penalty or even just advancing and shooting.
With most of it's guns 24" or less, it wants to be close, between the flamer and the charge dice roll manipulation helps mitigate that flaw.

At 180/186/200 points it is rather good. But so much of our good stuff already costs a lot of points and it is overlooked because of past Forgeworld restrictions.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/28 13:58:58


 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





And because it costs lotsa money

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List






I've been hearing talk about the meta moving towards units that are super effective at taking out units with the Fly keyword. Seeing as most (if not all) of our best units have the Fly keyword, how could we adapt to such a meta or do we just keep pushing through?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/28 16:02:11


 
   
Made in gb
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




Crownworld Qarnac

We'd have to muscle through it. There's no other option seeing as you've rightly pointed out all our vehicles and best units (Or units that push us into the competitive bracket) have FLY. IF the meta really is shifting to punish FLY without alleviating a few core issues in our Codex then Necrons are arguably going to get the worst end of it competitively.

Whew maybe I have gone off the rails.....


AngryAngel80 wrote:
So this poll reminds me of GW rule design, makes little sense, obviously was placed without any meaningful play testing and we're left waiting for a FAQ because right now the RAW crowd is using the open ended meaning to ruin everyones fun because we know how they intended W but we can't prove it with how it's written.
 
   
Made in us
Snord





Florida

I wouldn't buy any Tesseract Arks right now (if you don't already have them) until the new Forgeworld books drop. After LVO, I wouldn't be surprised to see some heavy handed nerfs across the board for FW.

I play:
40K: Daemons, Genestealer Cults
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Gremlins,Neverborn
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
Guild Ball: Morticians, Brewers 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 D6Damager wrote:
I wouldn't buy any Tesseract Arks right now (if you don't already have them) until the new Forgeworld books drop. After LVO, I wouldn't be surprised to see some heavy handed nerfs across the board for FW.


Maybe i'll get lucky and they'll buff the Seraptek slightly. That'd be nice. But yeah, not buying more forge world right now.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Now that deathmarks are a lot cheaper (seriously, they received a ~25% decrease, unless I misread the entry) it might be worth fielding them now. They are actually cheaper than immortals.

Flayed Ones I think also received a points decrease, but you need more of them due to their low armor and melee orientation.

Monoliths received yet another points decrease. Which is nice, but still not enough.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Now that deathmarks are a lot cheaper (seriously, they received a ~25% decrease, unless I misread the entry) it might be worth fielding them now. They are actually cheaper than immortals.

Flayed Ones I think also received a points decrease, but you need more of them due to their low armor and melee orientation.

Monoliths received yet another points decrease. Which is nice, but still not enough.

18% and now that our HQs are fairly priced I do not see the attraction. It's a flawed comparison IMO I take Immortals in part to get CP. You are really replacing Ghost Arks/C'tan/TBs/Destroyers more so than Immortals.

I haven't played much since the update, but Flayed Ones don't seem terrible, they did pretty much what I would expect and want them to do in the past couple games I brought them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/05 13:32:12


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Only deathmarks can assassinate though and counter deep strike though. Its just that before they were too expensive to do so, as if you wanted a good chance of dealing some damage you had to pay 190 points for ten of them. Now you just need 140 points, which is a little more palatable. They still have a niche use, but at least they aren't over priced.

How are you getting 18%? 5 out of 19 is closer to 25%.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/05 13:53:52


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Only deathmarks can assassinate though. Its just that before they were too expensive to do so, as if you wanted a good chance of dealing same damage you had to pay 190 points for ten of them. Now you just need 140 points, which is a little more palatable.

How are you getting 18%? 5 out of 19 is closer to 25%.

I have never been able to assassinate anything with them as far as I recall and I don't think DS is popular so their counterstrike ability is useless to me most games. Assuming Mephrit you need 15 shots to kill a Lieutenant, but I'm not buying a situation where my opponent is placing him in a place where I can kill him very often, in fact I don't think I'll even have LOS to him, but if I do it'll be at 13+" away so I'll need two full squads to kill him on average, with a re-roll he's still safe 70% of the time. A 1W Lieutenant is as good as a 4-wound Lieutenant if my opponent gets rid of my snipers. I'd rather invest in a second Battalion or some of the units I mentioned in my previous post.

Deathmarks were 17 in CA18. Whether it is 10 or 13 that makes them competitive I don't know, but I think 14 is not quite low enough. Definitely low enough to have fun with them and not feel like they are a huge drag on your force. If you wanted to waste 10-40 pts on a unit that isn't quite as efficient as other options, then I think that would most likely get lost in the noise of matchups, dice rolls, terrain, missions and what have you. I wish you good luck if you want to try and make them competitive, but for me Deathmarks are a strong casual choice.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Fair enough. I do agree they aren't an auto-include / competitive choice, just something worth considering now they aren't over priced.
They still need that marking ability they once had to increase their damage potential.
Or maybe just a range increase to 30". That might be a nasty surprise, especially if you can teleport them in a building on your opponent's flank and lay down rapid fire at 15".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/05 14:13:29


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





They need some sort of additional mechanic

In 7th they would wound on 2+ the turn they came in for example, which was nice against monsters.

Something similar buf, or perhaps as a 1CP strategem. Just something that would allow you to adapt to shifting situations.

as vict said, just keep your squishy HQs outside their 12" threat zone, and you're largely good.

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Only deathmarks can assassinate though and counter deep strike though. Its just that before they were too expensive to do so, as if you wanted a good chance of dealing some damage you had to pay 190 points for ten of them. Now you just need 140 points, which is a little more palatable. They still have a niche use, but at least they aren't over priced.

How are you getting 18%? 5 out of 19 is closer to 25%.


i have dropped 10 several times and good if i get 2 wounds. Better bring 2-3 full units if you plan to assasinate anything. Especially as 12" ds prevention bubbles are coming more popular(and deathmarks can't come at all via intercept if they can'w avoid that. Albeit that's rare issue

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Dropping points cost only does so much. I don't think dropping the cost of deathmarks is going to ever fix them. It could definitely break them though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/10 04:53:01


 
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






punisher357 wrote:
Dropping points cost only does so much. I don't think dropping the cost of deathmarks is going to ever fix them. It could definitely break them though.

Can we agree that 8 pts would be insanely strong and 21 pts would be insanely weak? Would you also say that 11 pts is as insanely strong as 8 pts or that 15 pts is as insanely weak as 21 pts? Are we not coming close to balance? If 12,5 is still insanely weak and 12,4 is insanely strong, could you not price them somewhere between at 12,42 or 12,48? Are we not getting any close to balance? There is a pts cost that is appropriate for any unit or combination, including one where they are taken occasionally and do well in tournaments but aren't spammed by everyone, we might be there already 18% drop is pretty hefty, so they could see play in a meta where their ability to counter-strike and snipe were mega-valuable or in a format where there is no DS restriction.
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

You can't always fix a unit with point drops. You can make something cheap enough to be an efficient choice, but not efficient at it's intended purpose. Eldar aspects have this problem; Banshees and scorpions are very cheap now, and are almost usable in certain roles, just not the right ones. Banshees can be used as fast moving tar pits to shut down shooting units, not as slayers of armored infantry. Scorpions are cheap objective grabbers that can have a nasty punch vs characters, not an elite anti-horde unit.
Deathmarks could be made cheap enough to become useful, but not as assassins, just as decent bodies with anti-infantry guns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/10 10:41:03


 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
You can't always fix a unit with point drops. You can make something cheap enough to be an efficient choice, but not efficient at it's intended purpose. Eldar aspects have this problem; Banshees and scorpions are very cheap now, and are almost usable in certain roles, just not the right ones. Banshees can be used as fast moving tar pits to shut down shooting units, not as slayers of armored infantry. Scorpions are cheap objective grabbers that can have a nasty punch vs characters, not an elite anti-horde unit.
Deathmarks could be made cheap enough to become useful, but not as assassins, just as decent bodies with anti-infantry guns.


Exactly this.

Point cost is only one of the levers of balance.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Yeah, deathmarks really need their special marking ability back. The points reduction is nice and does give them more usage, but they really, really their mark back. Because that's what they are called.
I really don't understand what the writers were thinking when they wrote 8th ed Necrons. Its like they wanted to take everything cool away from necrons and, I dunno, give it to marines or something.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

And make Immortals immortal, because thats what they are called.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 12:54:43


 
   
Made in ca
Freaky Flayed One






Well once upon a time, Immortals were halfway between Space Marines and Terminators in toughness what with their higher Toughness.

   
Made in fr
Numberless Necron Warrior




 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Well once upon a time, Immortals were halfway between Space Marines and Terminators in toughness what with their higher Toughness.


And warriors were a little above marines in term of power. I wish we where a more elite army with fun/strange tricks rather than an army with no rules and a lot of point reduction. Toys before Boys.
Obviously it's not the wise gameplay choice because elite armies are seldom good, but more a fluffy one to better represent that necron technology is stupidly above the field.
5th started a work that 7th finished in fashionning the silver tide giving us the undead horde with cheap reanimating bodies i really don't like. While i understand why giving necron this feeling make sense (the limitless undead legions), it sacrifices the "super-duper-advanced-but-doomed-race-where-each-one-of-them-is-unkillable" theme.

While the phase out rule from 3th-4th was probably difficult to implement gameplay wise, i find it gave room to make the army unique. 8th edition,with a lot of streamlined rules, would probably not be relevant for these kind of traits, but it would be good to have the sentiment necrons a not just subpar space marines with no rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 15:01:36


 
   
Made in ro
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot




I feel like I'm going to have to sell my soul to a star god just to live long enough to see our Psychic Awakening book. We're gonna be last, aren't we?
   
 
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