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Don't think this has been mentioned here but work from TMP is there will be a 1 UKP price hike in October.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=81172

They need to raise prices to pay for the massive labor costs to release 4 single page FAQs every 2 years.

Whatever- I welcome the chance to speed up Tom Kirby's firing and the restructuring that will follow- it'll get everything back on track and the prices back down.

Posted By mauleed 08/15/2006 9:56 PM
They need to raise prices to pay for the massive labor costs to release 4 single page FAQs every 2 years.

Now that is funny.

I thought it was to pay for Kirby salary increase for driving the hobby forward, getting more people to play and ensuring there were clear and concise  rules available.... or I could be confusing myself with PP.

Posted By mauleed 08/15/2006 9:56 PM

They need to raise prices to pay for the massive labor costs to release 4 single page FAQs every 2 years.

That made me laugh so hard I spit on my keyboard!  Sigged indeed!!

It's a price hike so GW can "is make wonderful miniatures in a timeless and culturally independent way and sell them at a profit. Everything else we make and do is geared around that end." I mean, golly gosh darn, they need to make a profit here! This is the Porsche of Miniatures here people! Gotta have that Porsche price tag, even if the rules, miniatures and support is more akin to YUGO or some third world fly-by-night automaker.

What I need is for Tau Battlesuits to go up £2, then every single unit I've bought in the past two years will have increased by a minimum of 20% since I bought them, and I can start reselling on eBay at a profit.

Lets be objective here.

What other companies can even compete with GW in terms of Quality? Only Rackham. And Rackham stuff is on a similar level price wise anyway.

Also dont forget that the wider range of plastics and the advances of plastic quality now make buying units (especially in warhammer) much cheaper and cost effective. Also the mega forces and battalions save you money. The Tau mega force saves 50 pounds compared to buying components seperately!

Yes the models are expensive, but for gods sake Microsoft want 50 GBP for a 360 game and Sony demand 30 GBP plus for a PSP title. Given the choice of buying a really fantastic model and the pleasure of building, converting, and painting it and the life your get out of it in gaming. Its harsh yes but not insane. I completed Ghost Recon advanced warfighter in 5 hours.... um so what next, that was a good 50 pounds.

And before everyone starts complaining. No iam not a GW plant, and no i do not like some of GWs recent policies (they made me redundant for gods sake), and Yes I also hate WD. At the end of the day I'm looking at this from all sides and coming up with a balanced view. 

They need to raise prices to pay for the massive labor costs to release 4 single page FAQs every 2 years.

Jesus Ed... you don't sound bitter at all...



BYE

Whatever- I welcome the chance to speed up Tom Kirby's firing and the restructuring that will follow- it'll get everything back on track and the prices back down.

If we could bottle that kind've optimism and sell it, we might just see peace in the Middle East in our life times.

Personally I think someone at the studio just looked at the calender and suddenly couldn't remember the last time they had a price increase, so they thought they better just do one to be safe.

BYE

Posted By Gundammecha 08/16/2006 4:11 AM

Lets be objective here.

What other companies can even compete with GW in terms of Quality? Only Rackham. And Rackham stuff is on a similar level price wise anyway.

Also dont forget that the wider range of plastics and the advances of plastic quality now make buying units (especially in warhammer) much cheaper and cost effective. Also the mega forces and battalions save you money. The Tau mega force saves 50 pounds compared to buying components seperately!

Yes the models are expensive, but for gods sake Microsoft want 50 GBP for a 360 game and Sony demand 30 GBP plus for a PSP title. Given the choice of buying a really fantastic model and the pleasure of building, converting, and painting it and the life your get out of it in gaming. Its harsh yes but not insane. I completed Ghost Recon advanced warfighter in 5 hours.... um so what next, that was a good 50 pounds.

And before everyone starts complaining. No iam not a GW plant, and no i do not like some of GWs recent policies (they made me redundant for gods sake), and Yes I also hate WD. At the end of the day I'm looking at this from all sides and coming up with a balanced view. 

Excellent GW apologist post! Perhaps you should check out the wider world of miniatures some time. Start with Illyad, pricey (less so), but quality (more so).

I stopped buying GW a year ago, along with thousands of others, and quit WD well before that. Maybe I'll buy some forgeworld stuff some time in the future though. The prices are looking more reasonable every day :S

Posted By Gundammecha 08/16/2006 4:11 AM

Lets be objective here.

What other companies can even compete with GW in terms of Quality? Only Rackham. And Rackham stuff is on a similar level price wise anyway.

Eh... what?!? That's hardly "objective". Perhaps you should listen to _jomi and get out of the GW store every now and then, where you'll find many, many companies that produce quality figures. In addition to his previously mentioned Illiad, there is also Reaper, Foundry, Battlefront, Mongoose Publishing, Privateer Press, Old Glory, Artizan, Conquest, West Wind, Copplestone and the list goes on and on. I'd like to specifically point out Battlefront, which while 15mm, is miles ahead of GW in the quality of their customer service, rules, response to errata, as well as their miniatures (which are some of the best on the market for 15mm WW2).

Yeah, you might not be a GW plant, but you sure apologize like one.

Whats with all the hostility? I'm giving you my view, personally i dont rate the other companies you mentioned. Foundry stuff is horrible, and I dont really like Reaper very much. I like alternatives and I'm all for that. Rackham are great, and AT 43 is looking to be a real contender for 40k. However warmachine and all that other stuff isnt for me. Thats just my personal opinion, and at no time did i criticise any of you for your view.

I'm just raising a point in comparison to other items on the market, ie computer games, cds, DVDs, etc. I dont live in a GW store, in fact i haven't brought GW product for over a year, and dont plan to. It is extremely easy to jump on the "lets hate GW" band wagon. I'm just asking why you are all complaining so much? If you don't like GW then dont buy the product.

I'm not appologising to anyone for anything. Regardless of current policy, leadership, whatever. There is no denying the impact that GW as a company has had on the market, and the legacy that they have created. I'm proud to have enjoyed Rouge Trader, I'm proud that i spent years working on the minis to develop my painting skills, and I'm proud of 40k and Fantasy as a gaming/rules system. 

GW stores maybe far from ideal, GW corporate policy maybe bad, but the hobby and the minitures are very good on the most part and will continue to be. Simple fact, with people like Jes Goodwin, Brian Nelson, Juan Diaz etc. GW has the finest team of designers, sculptors, artists, and the technology and the resources to back them up by producing great quality minitatures.

 

 

 

Well, you lead off with the statement "Lets be objective" and then proceed to make a completely and utterly  subjective post about Rackham being the only company that can equal GW in quality, which is rubbish, as well as going on to defend their policies (despite having a price hike just a few months ago). All this when everyone, even the die hards, have had almost all they can take. So what did you honestly expect, people to go "oh, wow, I never thought of it that way. Thank you Gundammecha for showing me the light! GW really is Games Workshop, not "Greed Worship" as those haters like to say!" I also find it amusing that you say Foundry stuff is horrible, yet the vast majority of their line was sculpted by sculptors that work (or worked) for, you guessed it, GW.

in addition this price hike will be covering paintbrushes as well according to local Gw manager!
dont mind actually as GW does seem to show fairly consistent quaility in MOST of thier models!
millest

I never liked the Perry Twins stuff that much. So with regard to Foundry thats why i dont like them. However if you look at the vast majority of foundry stuff that isnt Perry work its pretty bad.

I do love the old vikings though, only because I used to have them as Norse for fantasy way back when.

But seriously lets be honest while we might like to praise other companies, and there are some good peices out there. You have to admit that in terms of quality and production methods across the majority of the ranges Rackham and GW are above most competiton. Rackham stuff is amazing and the new resin dragon for example is serious competiton to forgeworld. AT 43 as i said also looks fantastic (although i hate the whole prepainted idea).

The Starship trooper stuff is horrible (not sure who makes it mongoose?)

GW modelling supplies are terrible though, paint brushes, glues, clippers, they suck. Only the paint is decent I think.

I just think that we should all just remember what we loved about the hobby when we started and what its really about. Yes the company is killing the hobby under its current leadership, and Tom Kirby is a muppet.

But the worlds, the background, the game, the art work, and the models will always be special to me.

The only thing I'll be buying anytime soon is the new Eldar stuff as i think most of us can agree those minis are excellent.

And Iam not defending the companies policies iam only saying that the models are good quality. At anytime have i been rude or sarcastic towards you? no I haven't. I'm not trying to make you "see the light" I'm just telling you that things are expensive these days. The point with the Xbox 360 proves this.

 

 

I can't believe that they are doing this to customers again! I'm going to have to disagree on the quality thing as well, imho there are a lot of other companies out there that are taking pieces of the GW pie and with them upping the prices all the time I can only see them getting more of it. As for your argument on the cost, I've got a little statistic for you. I worked out how much my Mantis Warriors costs for a basic 1500 pts (the default army size in 40k) it was £203, I have ONE! metal model in that. Luckily I don't buy from GW since the last lot of prices hikes and I saved around 50% of that cost by getting stuff brand new through Ebay and online stores. If you're interested that works out at £4.41 a model.

I totted up a Confrontation army that I'm looking into earlier today before finding this thread. To get this 400AP force (the default size for C3) would cost me £50, at £3.12 a model and they are all metal. Sure there are only 16 of them as opposed to the 46 in my marines, but that's the nature of the game and I pocket effectively £150, not a bad saving in my book (effectively enough for me to buy 3 more armies in fact). Do I need a Codex? No, just the rules which cost me less than the 40K rulebook to start with.

Personally I don't think GW have a bright future, I'm not bashing the company, they are responsible for some of the most fun gaming I've had, but they are not doing themselves any favours here, the only thing that will stick in people's memories is that they keep charging more for their stuff which many people consider over-priced to start with. They have lost a lot of customers over the past 12-24 months because of things like this. I have read no end of posts from people saying that they simply can't afford to keep up with GW stuff anymore. It's a real shame.

Posted By Gundammecha 08/16/2006 6:59 AM

Whats with all the hostility?

 

 

Well, to add to what Nyarly stated, most of us are sick to our stomachs with the relentless, inflation busting price rises that GW are infamous for. Tom Kirby's laughable Orwellian statements, including 'We don't increase prices', are bad enough, but when the consumers start parroting his words it's really quite annoying. I'm sure you're in the minority if you're truly happy with the GW price : Quality balance.

speaking of other companies isn't it about time for a new Colonel Marbles vid?

Posted By Gundammecha 08/16/2006 8:17 AM

But seriously lets be honest while we might like to praise other companies, and there are some good peices out there. You have to admit that in terms of quality and production methods across the majority of the ranges Rackham and GW are above most competiton. Rackham stuff is amazing and the new resin dragon for example is serious competiton to forgeworld. AT 43 as I said also looks fantastic (although I hate the whole prepainted idea).

 

I would pit ANY Crocodile Games miniature vs ANY GW miniature and Croc would do no worse that an tie.  I would also say that Reaper (especially the Warlord line) would match up just as well against GW figs.  GW is not the only fish in the pewter sea.  I think what makes people so dissappointed is that most companies are charging less for the same quality and materials.

I truly think that if the rules quality and support were better, most people wouldn't mind the overall prices of GW products.  You pay more for a Toyota than a Kia, but you get a nicer car with more features, so it's ok.

I can tell you from first hand experience that GW doesn't pay their sculptors an exorbatant amount of money.  They aren't super cheapos, but they aren't paying a big premium for better sculptors (hence the exodus we always see in regards to sculptors) so the extra money isn't going there.  Kirby has stated that materials are a minimal cost of production, they've cut staff recently, I just can't figure where the money is all going.

1) I freely admit I am "the bias".  My interest in wargaming is limited to Warhammer, and my interest in Warhammer is visual.  I do ogle the Rackham minis pretty often though.  I've scanned through most ranges, looking for decent heads...variety is the spice of life.

2) I agree GW has a poor run over the last few years of forgetting their core customers, and thinking the hobby would grow beyond it's limited appeal.  Their pricing structure reveals willful ignorance about their product and competitors.

3) GW is certainly losing market share thanks to their poor decisions.

4) Lots of companies have improved their models substantially in the last few years.

5) GW certainly is lagging in rules and rules support.

But for ironkodiak to actually state that ANY Reaper (insert your game here...Illyad, PP, etc) mini can stand toe to toe with ANY GW mini is the most absurd thing in this thread, including GW's pricing structure.

In terms of mini quality, only Rackham can play with GW's mid-level and better sculpts.  And in terms of versatility (a huge point for many hobbyists, for conversions and creativity, etc), not one company comes within years of GW.  Take a look at the Carnifex or WHFB Giant.  Rackham isn't even close to that.  As for Reaper, so the fly-by-night sculpters making scantily clad devil girls stack up with Jes Goodwin or Brian Nelson sculpts on a day-to-day basis.  You actually think that?

GW is losing lots of ground and market share, thanks to boneheaded decisionmaking and allowing the tail to wag the dog.  I readily grant that.  in the rush to badmouth GW, let's keep in mind how far ahead of the technology curve they are from their competitors in terms of the soldiers themselves.  Rackham is easily their equal in terms of creativity and paintability.  But in terms of modularity and versatility (the converters bread and butter)...GW crushes them all, and it's not even close.

 

so I guess the rumor is confirmed huh.

Jomi if you read any of my posts your see that i dont like tom kirby or the current business plan. I most certainly am not praising him or his decisions. It was his decisions that got me fired in the first place.

So to say iam a consumer repeating kirbys mantra, simply because i disagree with some of your points is ridiculous. As has been voiced by others on this thread Reaper sculpts  and other such companies cant stand up to GW sculpts. I'm sorry but this is like comparing cheap instant nescafe to fine espresso roast.

Totally i know that wages for GW staff are terrible, i worked for them for 3 years. The design team get it worst of all. Yet its their passion and skill thats kept GW going and they should be praised for the fantastiuc work THEY do. Not the work that KIRBY does but the work that the DESIGN TEAM do. They are the reason why i still admire GWs work.

Sorry that i need to put these points in capitals, but from replies to my posts its obvious that people arent reading them properly or misunderstanding them.

And Iam most certainly not happy with the costs. Do they equal value for money... not really. Do i still think they are great minatures and some of the finest on the planet, totally.

Posted By Gundammecha 08/16/2006 11:44 AM
1) Jomi if you read any of my posts your see that i dont like tom kirby or the current business plan. I most certainly am not praising him or his decisions. It was his decisions that got me fired in the first place.

2)So to say iam a consumer repeating kirbys mantra, simply because i disagree with some of your points is ridiculous. As has been voiced by others on this thread Reaper sculpts  and other such companies cant stand up to GW sculpts. I'm sorry but this is like comparing cheap instant nescafe to fine espresso roast.

3)And I am most certainly not happy with the costs. Do they equal value for money... not really.

a)You are defending GWs awful pricing decisions, that's the point I was making.

b)I compared your post to Kirby statements because of your defence of GW practices. I know this thread isn't about Kirby, we should probably stop mentioning him to avoid confusion. As for 'GW = Best', I did a ridiculously quick sacn on cmon for some of my favourite manufacturers. Yup, GW make some very nice minis, most of my minis are GW. There are other companies that I buy from that are just as good, which you seem to be denying for some reason, possibly to better defend your point, possibly ignorance of the market. Here's what I found in, I'd say, 3 minutes if not less. These are my personal choices, there's infinately more out there for different tastes(I've left Rackham out because you acknowledge their quality).

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Ilyad%20Games/id/122444

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Ilyad%20Games/id/129970

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Ilyad%20Games/id/121535

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Urban%20Mammoth/id/76938

http://www.coolminiornot.com/125644

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Ilyad%20Games/id/127037

http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Ilyad%20Games/id/126647

c)Your apologist post seems to indicate the opposite.

Miniature quality is really in the eye of the beholder.  My personal observation is that GWs "new" products are a mixed bag.  The only consistently excellent line in recent memory is the Wood Elves with only a few bad miniatures (some of the wizards, the warhawk riders etc).  40k new releases have been terribly inconsistent, with almost all the new marine releases suffering from stubby leg syndrome or too much bling syndrome.  The Tau had models which were good (stealth suits) redone and models that were terrible, (crisis suits) stayed the same.  The new Eldar look to rectify this trend.

Granted, charging through the nose for mediocre sculpts like the new marine chaplain, near usless models like Space Pope, and plain ugly models such as posessed is not helping their case.  And don't get me started on how they give cool models rules which are balls.

Posted By dienekes96 08/16/2006 11:17 AM

But for ironkodiak to actually state that ANY Reaper (insert your game here...Illyad, PP, etc) mini can stand toe to toe with ANY GW mini is the most absurd thing in this thread, including GW's pricing structure.

In terms of mini quality, only Rackham can play with GW's mid-level and better sculpts.  And in terms of versatility (a huge point for many hobbyists, for conversions and creativity, etc), not one company comes within years of GW.  Take a look at the Carnifex or WHFB Giant.  Rackham isn't even close to that.  As for Reaper, so the fly-by-night sculpters making scantily clad devil girls stack up with Jes Goodwin or Brian Nelson sculpts on a day-to-day basis.  You actually think that?

 

Check out Discussions Forum.  I'll pick one, you pick a GW sculpt that blows it out of the water.  After I get done with Warlord, I'll call out the big guns and go to Croc.  Keep in mind that price and scale should probably be similar just to keep the comparisons fair. 

You can't do scale...no one else does the bigger vehicles like GW.  No one does anything remotely near the Carnifex.

I don't care enough to compete in Discussions, ik.  Chalk it up to apathy, and notch yourself a win if it's important to you.  I simply think pretending GW isn't the premiere miniature company because you don't like their business decisions is silly.  Call me when any of the other product lines have 10% of the flexibility of the Marine Infantry plastics.  They don't, and they won't.  That isn't to say there aren't lovely non-GW sculpts out there by non-Rackham companies.  Certainly there are...many better than GW's mid-tier figures.  But to claim GW's best figure isn't better than any other companies is mind-blowing.

Their minis are the only reason they are surviving.

I just can't figure where the money is all going.

Share holders, duh.....

You can't do scale...no one else does the bigger vehicles like GW. No one does anything remotely near the Carnifex.

No one needs to, frankly.

Customization is really the only thing GW has going.....I prefer the OLD maurder gaint to the new one, personally.

I look at the GW treeman and thats a WTF model that is better done elsewhere....

No one NEEDS to do the bigger vehicals. Were it not for the game, nobody would buy them 'cause their pretty, they'd go with what is it, Tamyia kits are they called? Much better vehicals that are cheaper.

Look at various japanese kits for good quality kits.....

They're out there, IF you look.

I thought we were discussing price, not quality.

Yes, some of their sculps are nice, but does that justify having to pay $50 for a box of 5 plastic terminators?

And GWs quality is not as great as everyone keeps saying it is. For example, take a look at the new chaos possessed, and venrable dred and tell me those are some of the best minis on the market.