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 IHateNids wrote:
Not to be Mr Psychic Awakening Doomsayer, but has anyone else seen the rules for Ghaz?

how the hell do we deal with a guy that can fairly easily delete a unit per phase on his todd and we physically cant do the standard "Obliterate with Extreme Prejudice, even if your other stuff lives" approach with have to things like Daemon Primarchs

He's 2+ 4++ with T7, doing 4 wounds is easy with a doomsday cannon or a couple of (heavy) gauss cannons, just spread it out over multiple turns and delete other units while he swings his pathetic 5-6 attacks and fires a couple of heavy bolters, chump-block him with a unit of Immortals. It's like T8 3+/3++ and 24 wounds, that took more than one shooting phase to kill as well. Ork players are whining that he is terrible, a Necron player whining he is unstoppable. Guess GW did their job well on this one. I'd wager teleporting him in will be the most viable way to run him, but he doesn't get +1 to Movement/Advance/Charge so it's not as surefire as the +1/+1/+1 Klan although he can go in the same detachment. He's 270-285 pts, I don't think people will run him except because he's an amazing model, that's 30 Shoota Boyz and a cheapo Warboss. He has M7 instead of M5 so he doesn't need advance and charge as much as a footboss does, but it's still less mobile than a Warboss.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except he can still be teleported in, because the tellyporta strat doesn't have restrictions on types.
So you actually have 1 turn before he gets to the front lines.

Which also means he does nothing T1. It costs 2CP, and he needs to roll a 9 on the charge.

 p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except he can still be teleported in, because the tellyporta strat doesn't have restrictions on types.
So you actually have 1 turn before he gets to the front lines.

Which also means he does nothing T1. It costs 2CP, and he needs to roll a 9 on the charge.

He gets rerolls. Orks have a good chance of getting those 9" charges because of 'ere we go.

That said, we do have options to deal with him.

Wraiths and shieldguard can lock him in combat for a while due to their invuls.
If he leaves combat that's basically free 4 wounds on him as he'll be open to getting shot.

C'tan deal damage in the movement phase, meaning that an army with C'tan can deal an extra 4 wounds a turn. C'tan also have invuls and can explode, so you can use one as a tarpit / kamikaze if you want.

DDAs and HGC probably won't perform that great against him because of his 4+ invul and his 4 wound rule, so you might not want to waste too much firepower against him. Gauss cannons on destroyers would be a waste because of his 4 wound limit. Gauss Blasters and gauss cannons on Annihilation barges, oddly enough, seem to be the best weapon loadouts against him because you won't waste that much AP with the blasters (-2 reduces 2+ save to 4+, and you aren't going to waste too much damage against him), and probably won't waste that much with annihilation barges either.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except he can still be teleported in, because the tellyporta strat doesn't have restrictions on types.
So you actually have 1 turn before he gets to the front lines.

Which also means he does nothing T1. It costs 2CP, and he needs to roll a 9 on the charge.

He gets rerolls. Orks have a good chance of getting those 9" charges because of 'ere we go.

That said, we do have options to deal with him.

Wraiths and shieldguard can lock him in combat for a while due to their invuls.
If he leaves combat that's basically free 4 wounds on him as he'll be open to getting shot.

C'tan deal damage in the movement phase, meaning that an army with C'tan can deal an extra 4 wounds a turn. C'tan also have invuls and can explode, so you can use one as a tarpit / kamikaze if you want.

DDAs and HGC probably won't perform that great against him because of his 4+ invul and his 4 wound rule, so you might not want to waste too much firepower against him. Gauss cannons on destroyers would be a waste because of his 4 wound limit. Gauss Blasters and gauss cannons on Annihilation barges, oddly enough, seem to be the best weapon loadouts against him because you won't waste that much AP with the blasters (-2 reduces 2+ save to 4+, and you aren't going to waste too much damage against him), and probably won't waste that much with annihilation barges either.

Shoot 4 wounds off him, charge with wraiths, that's another 4 wounds (hopefully), then shoot him some more next turn. He's a bit of a beast, but the strategies for dealing with him are obvious.

My issue with it is that whichever unit you try and combat him with he will destroy without question, unless you get the charge to do the final 4 wounds

Also, with the banner grot's FNP and the possibility of a Painboy healing him up (Also the fact that I agree that his Great Waaagh! will likely be FAQ'd to include himself) I think it's going to be exceptionally easy to funnel into a one-model deathstar

but, I am also a bit of a cynic, so I am hopefully very wrong

 IHateNids wrote:
My issue with it is that whichever unit you try and combat him with he will destroy without question, unless you get the charge to do the final 4 wounds

Also, with the banner grot's FNP and the possibility of a Painboy healing him up (Also the fact that I agree that his Great Waaagh! will likely be FAQ'd to include himself) I think it's going to be exceptionally easy to funnel into a one-model deathstar

but, I am also a bit of a cynic, so I am hopefully very wrong

What unit is he going to destroy with 5 attacks? Charge in with two min-squads of Immortals and he can't shoot or charge in his next turn.

 vict0988 wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My issue with it is that whichever unit you try and combat him with he will destroy without question, unless you get the charge to do the final 4 wounds

Also, with the banner grot's FNP and the possibility of a Painboy healing him up (Also the fact that I agree that his Great Waaagh! will likely be FAQ'd to include himself) I think it's going to be exceptionally easy to funnel into a one-model deathstar

but, I am also a bit of a cynic, so I am hopefully very wrong

What unit is he going to destroy with 5 attacks? Charge in with two min-squads of Immortals and he can't shoot or charge in his next turn.

Yep. Or wratihs, or lychguard. He's not gonna chew threw those inv saves. Honestly, he's just a big distraction carnifex.

There seems to be a massive lump of people forgetting Ork shooting is not inherently terrible anymore?

I dont think it would be hard for the ork version of mortars or lootas to clear off anything we could chaff Ghaz with and then throw him at something they want him to kill

And yes, Wraiths will be an issue for him with the 3++, but one failed save is a fully dead wraith considering it's flat 4 damage on that klaw, and he hits and wounds on 2s rerolling across his entire brackets

 vict0988 wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
Not to be Mr Psychic Awakening Doomsayer, but has anyone else seen the rules for Ghaz?

how the hell do we deal with a guy that can fairly easily delete a unit per phase on his todd and we physically cant do the standard "Obliterate with Extreme Prejudice, even if your other stuff lives" approach with have to things like Daemon Primarchs

He's 2+ 4++ with T7, doing 4 wounds is easy with a doomsday cannon or a couple of (heavy) gauss cannons, just spread it out over multiple turns and delete other units while he swings his pathetic 5-6 attacks and fires a couple of heavy bolters, chump-block him with a unit of Immortals. It's like T8 3+/3++ and 24 wounds, that took more than one shooting phase to kill as well. Ork players are whining that he is terrible, a Necron player whining he is unstoppable. Guess GW did their job well on this one. I'd wager teleporting him in will be the most viable way to run him, but he doesn't get +1 to Movement/Advance/Charge so it's not as surefire as the +1/+1/+1 Klan although he can go in the same detachment. He's 270-285 pts, I don't think people will run him except because he's an amazing model, that's 30 Shoota Boyz and a cheapo Warboss. He has M7 instead of M5 so he doesn't need advance and charge as much as a footboss does, but it's still less mobile than a Warboss.

You need to get rid of painboy though or you do 4 per turn minus d3 healed. Or get into melee. Or just ignore. Feed him with sacrificial units. Albeit trickier with necrons but there's not actually that many good targets for ghaz in necrons. He's not infantry killer and vehicles have QS vs flat 4 damage.

Yeah. what tneva82 said.

Honestly, he's not an enormous threat to most of our stuff. I'd focus on the ork gunline and just try to boxout Ghaz/kill his support. He's got 5 attacks right? He's hardly going to blend through your lines, and Quantum Shielding means he's not a huge threat to the vehicles either.

Take 4 wounds off him with shooting, then smash his support. He's a good beatstick, but he's hardly the new hotness we need to build around.

Apparently where Ghaz shines is against characters and monsters. Our characters and monsters aren't great, so we don't really have anything for him to excel against.

Yeah what ghaz enjoys smashing is high T high save low inv slow stuff with lots of wounds. He hates going against cheap chaff, high invs(3++ in particular) and generally having to face anything that's cheap.

For necrons bigger worry is buffs he generate but...well kill the buffed units and buffs aren't worry anymore.

He's good but thing is necrons don't have particularly good targets for him. 5 immortals if he hits and wounds with all isn't that impressive result for ~280 pts model

Ghaz is a slightly bigger threat to elite Infantry than is being stated here. He actually gains attacks as he is bracketed and being a Goff he has exploding 6's when he hits.

He only has exploding 6s in a pure Goff detachment. Which no one runs.

v0iddrgn wrote:
Ghaz is a slightly bigger threat to elite Infantry than is being stated here. He actually gains attacks as he is bracketed and being a Goff he has exploding 6's when he hits.

If he is bracketed in melee he's about to be dead unless your opponent is doing evolved shenanigans, his S goes down from what I remember as well. I hope people bring some Goffs, I think I played against those once, Freebootas once or twice, sneaky ones once or twice, the rest of them a bazillion times each, often two or more of them at the same time.

You're right his strength does go down to 10 from 14. That'll be a problem.

v0iddrgn wrote:
You're right his strength does go down to 10 from 14. That'll be a problem.

Wounds Doomsday Arks/C'tan on 3+ instead of 2+ Fair enough, I still think he's ignorable before he goes down to brackets and if he doesn't heal then he dies and if he heals he's not bracketed.

v0iddrgn wrote:
Ghaz is a slightly bigger threat to elite Infantry than is being stated here. He actually gains attacks as he is bracketed and being a Goff he has exploding 6's when he hits.

So you don't bracket him. Ignore means ignore. Don't bother with him until you can actually kill him. And he only explodes if he's in goff detachment which is fairly uncompetive detachment. Plus only explodes like one time per round

Especially you ignore if you only can damage him in shooting due to him likely having painboy nearby to heal d3. 4 wound per turn, he heals d3, why bother?

He can't b healed by a painboy btw, hes not a bike or infantry. They need to burn cp on medisqig. I don't think hes a concern at 280~ plus makari is 50. Thats a lot of investment for a terrible buff character that is slow and can only kill small units.

Abby is more of a problem if I am honest and you don't see him ruining necrons time. He has more attacks and levels anything and has more mobility and on top of all that he has WAY better buff auras and is 100 pts less (factoring in makari) so I am not really bothered by him. What makes abby work is his buff. Ghaz is just as a voidable but he doesn't give amry wide rerolls or fearless. All his auras are available on cheaper HQ's. He's basically the definition of a distraction carnifex.

EDIT

BTW don't forget he cant move through building walls or scale levels lol. He also does flat 4 damage. So you can either ty him up with quantum shielding and use quantum deflection and laugh or put a forward screen in a ruin or up a level.

 Red Corsair wrote:
He can't b healed by a painboy btw, hes not a bike or infantry. They need to burn cp on medisqig. I don't think hes a concern at 280~ plus makari is 50. Thats a lot of investment for a terrible buff character that is slow and can only kill small units.

Abby is more of a problem if I am honest and you don't see him ruining necrons time. He has more attacks and levels anything and has more mobility and on top of all that he has WAY better buff auras and is 100 pts less (factoring in makari) so I am not really bothered by him. What makes abby work is his buff. Ghaz is just as a voidable but he doesn't give amry wide rerolls or fearless. All his auras are available on cheaper HQ's. He's basically the definition of a distraction carnifex.

EDIT

BTW don't forget he cant move through building walls or scale levels lol. He also does flat 4 damage. So you can either ty him up with quantum shielding and use quantum deflection and laugh or put a forward screen in a ruin or up a level.

MediSquiq is any goff character, FNP is Infantry/Bike. Makari is scarier than Ghaz, 110% going to tag two Immortal squads.

Hmmmm....I must have wandered into the ork tactics page by mistake

punisher357 wrote:
Hmmmm....I must have wandered into the ork tactics page by mistake

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

 Red Corsair wrote:
He can't b healed by a painboy btw, hes not a bike or infantry. They need to burn cp on medisqig. I don't think hes a concern at 280~ plus makari is 50. Thats a lot of investment for a terrible buff character that is slow and can only kill small units.

The stratagem is the point. 6+++ isn't that big. d3 wounds per back if you suffer only 4 per turn like vs necrons isn't that bad. Essentially makes ghaz invulnerable. But that's allright. Just don't bother shooting at it

Doubt makari will be used much either.6+++ isn't that hot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:
MediSquiq is any goff character, FNP is Infantry/Bike. Makari is scarier than Ghaz, 110% going to tag two Immortal squads.

You mean makari will tie 2 squads? Only if necron player allows. Makari base isn't that big. You don't have to be b2b with your 2 squads.

Looks like we will be in the last book since we are not with the Spider.

So Harley, DeathWatch, Necrons and maybe Sisters in the last book right or am I missing anything?

Yes, looks like we are in the last book with DW and the space clowns. I dont think SOB will be there as well.

Pyrothem wrote:
Looks like we will be in the last book since we are not with the Spider.

So Harley, DeathWatch, Necrons and maybe Sisters in the last book right or am I missing anything?

No guarantee for no more double-features like with CSM showing up again with Bile, it could be another book other than Engine War and War of the Spider before we get our turn. I think Harley, Deathwatch, Necrons makes sense, add in Sisters and I'm afraid it's going to be cramped and we might only get something half-assed. Don't expect any changes to Necrons in the next 8 months between Corona, Engine War and War of the Spider, but this subject is fairly irrelevant to the topic of Necrons tactics. Being last we'd need a huge chunk of fluffy stuff for me to be satisfied. I still love my Necrons, but no massive upsets in terms of what our best units are despite being good for the health of the faction, hasn't made me super excited. Using Flayed Ones is fun, I still find them to be far from amazing. I fielded a Monolith the other day, it took 6 lascannons to deal 16 damage to it, 400 pts to get 225 pts in return does not feel good on the receiving end. I spent a CP to shoot with it at full capacity and had first turn so it got to shoot twice at BS3+, but boy is that still painfully average with its pitiful Movement and range.

Pyrothem wrote:
Looks like we will be in the last book since we are not with the Spider.

So Harley, DeathWatch, Necrons and maybe Sisters in the last book right or am I missing anything?

Only ? in that is harleys. Will they get anything or not? Other than that yeah. Necrons, deathwatch and sisters for sure. No maybe's since GW flat out said they will get PA book.

Good for me. I get 2 of my armies in one book Can skip war of the spider.

Friend just sent me this, no idea on source. Could be fake obvs, but we had a similar leak confirming Engine War this way before it was revealed.

God I'd love Pariahs to come back.

Same kind of leak for War of the Spider.

IanVanCheese wrote:


Friend just sent me this, no idea on source. Could be fake obvs, but we had a similar leak confirming Engine War this way before it was revealed.

God I'd love Pariahs to come back.

News, possibly fake, not tactics.