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Why would I want to trade T5 and W9 against T6 and W14 and QS, for almost the same points ?

 p5freak wrote:
Why would I want to trade T5 and W9 against T6 and W14 and QS, for almost the same points ?

Technically, for the cost of a DDA (slightly less) you get 4 HDs. Admittedly squad sizes would lead to oddities in unit counts, but point for point you’re getting:

3.2 effective str9 hits, T5, W12, RP.
vs.
2.3 effective str10 hits, T6, W14, QS, Repair

There's also something to be said for getting a straight up +1 to hit from MWBD against many targets. Consider 3 DDA vs 3x3 Heavy Destoyers targeting -2 to hit Eldar flyers. Your first DDA shot may be your only "big number of shots" and then be straight up -2 to hit. While your first heavy destroyers with MWBD will get a consistent 3 shots with only -1 net, then Methodical Destruction will give you and additional +1 to hit on the others. Much less reliable with DDA.

barontuman wrote:
There's also something to be said for getting a straight up +1 to hit from MWBD against many targets. Consider 3 DDA vs 3x3 Heavy Destoyers targeting -2 to hit Eldar flyers. Your first DDA shot may be your only "big number of shots" and then be straight up -2 to hit. While your first heavy destroyers with MWBD will get a consistent 3 shots with only -1 net, then Methodical Destruction will give you and additional +1 to hit on the others. Much less reliable with DDA.

Heavy Destroyers also have an easier time moving within 12" to get down to -1 in the first place. Shooting at a -2 Eldar plane is a losing proposition since they can use Reflexes to get -3, unless you assumed you were already within 12" and your opponent used Reflexes. My meta has a pretty large amount of variety, so I'm not seeing flyer spam as much as someone might with a smaller pool and maybe just 1-2 players that consistently play flying circuses.

I agree that Heavy Destroyers are fantastic, but I think they're an "as well as" DDAs, not instead of. I think Heavy Destroyers should be replacing Doom Scythes or regular destroyers in people's lists.

The only reason I haven't is because I hate the finecast noodle guns and cba converting 6 heavy destroyers yet (I've done one).

sieGermans wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Why would I want to trade T5 and W9 against T6 and W14 and QS, for almost the same points ?

Technically, for the cost of a DDA (slightly less) you get 4 HDs. Admittedly squad sizes would lead to oddities in unit counts, but point for point you’re getting:

3.2 effective str9 hits, T5, W12, RP.
vs.
2.3 effective str10 hits, T6, W14, QS, Repair

Right, i forgot about their points drop, i thought they were still 50. But you cant have a unit of 4. Only 2x2, which makes it easier to wipe out one unit, and deny you RP.

What IvanVanCheese wrote: Not instead of, in addition to.

Doomscythes, when they worked, were amazing and won many games for me. But in the gases they didn't, they cost me the game by giving away Big Game Hunter virtually on turn 1. @p5freak, I'd never field them in units of 2, but in units of 3. They comparison was just points to points. After you're done, you end up with X many points left over which you put into something equally useful. It's not a situation where you are doing a direct replacement for anything without having to modify your list somewhat.

The real problem is the anti-infantry shots that you lose when replacing either DS or DDA. That's the real issue that needs to be solved. I felt that the Tesla Destructors were quite useful, and I've seen the Gauss Flayer Arrays absolutely melt some larger units.

barontuman wrote:
What IvanVanCheese wrote: Not instead of, in addition to.

Doomscythes, when they worked, were amazing and won many games for me. But in the gases they didn't, they cost me the game by giving away Big Game Hunter virtually on turn 1. @p5freak, I'd never field them in units of 2, but in units of 3. They comparison was just points to points. After you're done, you end up with X many points left over which you put into something equally useful. It's not a situation where you are doing a direct replacement for anything without having to modify your list somewhat.

The real problem is the anti-infantry shots that you lose when replacing either DS or DDA. That's the real issue that needs to be solved. I felt that the Tesla Destructors were quite useful, and I've seen the Gauss Flayer Arrays absolutely melt some larger units.

Yeah I'd miss the flayers, they do serious work even if it's just clearing up chaff that wanders too close.
It's true you lose the tesla destructors if you drop the scythes for heavy destroyers, but for 453 pts (just over the cost of three scythes) you can get 9 heavy destroyers and a ghost ark to bring in some chaff clearance.


I'm messing around with the idea of running a CCB over an overlord at the moment. My overlord never does anything and he's too slow to keep up with deceivered lychguard (and I only have 3 x 5 immortals, so he's not much of a force multiplier). If he'd come down another 10-15pts I think it'd be a no-brainer, but as it stands I'm unsure. Why do all our HQs suck (stormlord excluded).

Other option is a Destroyer Lord , but he has his own issues.

If I were replacing something for the 9 HD's it would be the flyers for sure. Half the time opponent has very good chance of blowing up one anyway denying stratagem and without it they are bit of a meh anyway.

3 DDA+9 HD meanwhile has plenty of AT power. Too bad don't have cash to buy heavy destroyers :(

On an entirely unrelated note, do any of my UK necron players have any spare tesla destructors they're willing to trade/sell?

I've just picked up a CCB and the tesla destructor that would go on the annihilation barge will make a perfect heavy gauss cannon.

IanVanCheese wrote:
On an entirely unrelated note, do any of my UK necron players have any spare tesla destructors they're willing to trade/sell?

I've just picked up a CCB and the tesla destructor that would go on the annihilation barge will make a perfect heavy gauss cannon.

I’ve got some, aye. Happy to just donate a set if you’re in Scotland some place?

I'm just starting Necrons do I'm not too sure what I'm doing.
But I wanted to ask do people usually take their Immortals in squads of 10 to max the chances of RP, or squads of 5 for a cheaper battalion.

 dan2026 wrote:
I'm just starting Necrons do I'm not too sure what I'm doing.
But I wanted to ask do people usually take their Immortals in squads of 10 to max the chances of RP, or squads of 5 for a cheaper battalion.

Yes. Yes they do. . But hardly ever anything in between, but it does happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And often times we take none, just because the HQ tax is so high.

sieGermans wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
On an entirely unrelated note, do any of my UK necron players have any spare tesla destructors they're willing to trade/sell?

I've just picked up a CCB and the tesla destructor that would go on the annihilation barge will make a perfect heavy gauss cannon.

I’ve got some, aye. Happy to just donate a set if you’re in Scotland some place?

Bristol, so other end of UK. Happy to pay for postage though.

So, it appears War of The Spider holds Emperor's Children

Does this change anybody's hope/fear of what we will/won't get when our Psychic Awakening finally rolls around?

 IHateNids wrote:
So, it appears War of The Spider holds Emperor's Children

Does this change anybody's hope/fear of what we will/won't get when our Psychic Awakening finally rolls around?

If you are really hoping for anything besides maybe 1 model and a page or two of rules in whichever the last book is, there is a chance you are setting yourself up to be disappointed.

Now, it may well be we get several models and a bunch of new rules, but I don't see any reason to figure that is probable at all. Plausible? Yes. Likely? No way to say.

My personal approach is to figure we get shafted, then be pleasantly surprised when maybe we don't.

 IHateNids wrote:
So, it appears War of The Spider holds Emperor's Children

Does this change anybody's hope/fear of what we will/won't get when our Psychic Awakening finally rolls around?

I saw a good theory that War of the Spider will be Fabius Bile (whose nickname is the Spider), versus Sezeras (who is a spider) versus Harlequins (who live in the webway). Hoping that's it and that like Orks and Wolves, we both get a model (sorry Harlequins). I think really all we're likely to get is Szeras and build a dynasty rules. Maybe new chaplain-esque powers for crypteks at a stretch.

So there's no odds on us getting our "Primarch" in the form of Szarekh then?

Because again, that article appeared a couple WDs back, and now knowing we dont have to provide the spider we may be able to get lucky enough to get something actually viable

edit for spelling

 IHateNids wrote:
So there's no odds on us getting our "Primarch" in the form of Szarekh then?

Well, I wouldn't say "no odds" but I would say we no doubt get something. Just what we get, exactly, is unknown. I mean, we did get a vague allusion to The Silent King, so maybe we do get him as a model.

In that case, will his rules be useful? Who knows, we can only wait and see. But once again, I would not personally get my hopes up, Necron rules tend to be fairly uninspiring, in general, outside a few notable exceptions (AKA, what tends to get played/built around). What would be neat is if The SIlent King made Triarch units more in line with the bonuses of Dynasty units, but again, I'd personally temper my expectations of something that useful.

I still have a few boxes of Lichguard/Pretorians that I haven't built, as I haven't made up my mind which is more useful or I'd want to use, because I haven't played much lately. I see some people going Sword and Board lately, so I might just do that, if I get around to them in the near future (unlikely), but I might just wait for our book to come so I can see if there is actually anything to influence the decision in any case.

Still holding out hope our book is Custodes and Deathwatch vs Necrons, just so I only need to buy one book lol

What a coincidence, I'm hoping for Admech vs Necrons for the same reason.
I should have kept a forgebane box for myself

Sisters vs Necrons would be nice too, but I think I prefer Ad Mech. I'm a sucker for Dune and pulp fiction sci-fi cheese.

Sisters vs Necrons could be amazing!
Revenge for Sanctuary 101

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What a coincidence, I'm hoping for Admech vs Necrons for the same reason.
I should have kept a forgebane box for myself

Sisters vs Necrons would be nice too, but I think I prefer Ad Mech. I'm a sucker for Dune and pulp fiction sci-fi cheese.

Admech is already confirmed with Chaos and Imperial Knights and Demons

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What a coincidence, I'm hoping for Admech vs Necrons for the same reason.
I should have kept a forgebane box for myself

Sisters vs Necrons would be nice too, but I think I prefer Ad Mech. I'm a sucker for Dune and pulp fiction sci-fi cheese.

Admech is already confirmed with Chaos and Imperial Knights and Demons

Well crap :(
Didn't chaos already receive a book though?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What a coincidence, I'm hoping for Admech vs Necrons for the same reason.
I should have kept a forgebane box for myself

Sisters vs Necrons would be nice too, but I think I prefer Ad Mech. I'm a sucker for Dune and pulp fiction sci-fi cheese.

Admech is already confirmed with Chaos and Imperial Knights and Demons

Well crap :(
Didn't chaos already receive a book though?

It's chaos knights and daemons in the Engine War book, not regular chaos.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What a coincidence, I'm hoping for Admech vs Necrons for the same reason.
I should have kept a forgebane box for myself

Sisters vs Necrons would be nice too, but I think I prefer Ad Mech. I'm a sucker for Dune and pulp fiction sci-fi cheese.

Admech is already confirmed with Chaos and Imperial Knights and Demons

Well crap :(
Didn't chaos already receive a book though?

They did for chaos marines(which btw rules out emperor's children being vs necrons. They already got theirs) but as said chaos knights and daemons along with imperial knights and ad mech are in next month. What's coming may and june is up to anyone's guess but seeing we know war of spider name now it's fairly safe to say that's may rather than june which could hint at necrons in may. If may is thus deathwatch vs necrons would likely leave sisters vs death guard in june and custoden/sister of silence alliance in either one of the two books.

tneva82 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What a coincidence, I'm hoping for Admech vs Necrons for the same reason.
I should have kept a forgebane box for myself

Sisters vs Necrons would be nice too, but I think I prefer Ad Mech. I'm a sucker for Dune and pulp fiction sci-fi cheese.

Admech is already confirmed with Chaos and Imperial Knights and Demons

Well crap :(
Didn't chaos already receive a book though?

They did for chaos marines(which btw rules out emperor's children being vs necrons. They already got theirs) but as said chaos knights and daemons along with imperial knights and ad mech are in next month. What's coming may and june is up to anyone's guess but seeing we know war of spider name now it's fairly safe to say that's may rather than june which could hint at necrons in may. If may is thus deathwatch vs necrons would likely leave sisters vs death guard in june and custoden/sister of silence alliance in either one of the two books.

True, but we know that Fabulous Bile is in War of the Spider, so regular old Chaos is getting something in there too, even if it's just him. We're the only xenos left (unless we count Harelquinns), so we have to be versus Deathwatch.

Not to be Mr Psychic Awakening Doomsayer, but has anyone else seen the rules for Ghaz?

how the hell do we deal with a guy that can fairly easily delete a unit per phase on his todd and we physically cant do the standard "Obliterate with Extreme Prejudice, even if your other stuff lives" approach with have to things like Daemon Primarchs

Unless he gets special rules, he is pretty slow. His own great waagh doesnt apply to him, because he isnt infantry. So no advance and charge. He cant be jumped and he cant ride in a transport, because he isnt infantry. So it takes him at least two turns to get across the battlefield. Which gives us time to shoot him.

 p5freak wrote:
Unless he gets special rules, he is pretty slow. His own great waagh doesnt apply to him, because he isnt infantry. So no advance and charge. He cant be jumped and he cant ride in a transport, because he isnt infantry. So it takes him at least two turns to get across the battlefield. Which gives us time to shoot him.

Except he can still be teleported in, because the tellyporta strat doesn't have restrictions on types.
So you actually have 1 turn before he gets to the front lines.

The great WAAGH strat is probably going to be FAQ'd. I think the writers forgot that Ghaz isn't infantry anymore.