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Yeah, but that NATO club we're still members off, just so happens to be next door, literally, to the EU club...
If the gak hits the fan in Europe, it will be a tad tricky to coordinate defence with a UK military that's been locked out of secure communications...
Like I say, will be fun to see how the EU tries to square this circle...
You're misunderstanding the difference between what is and isn't proposed. The UK will still have access to the system if it wants. What it won't have access to is the 'inner workings' of the system because we will be a third party. That means we can't use it to improve the military or civil services by understanding the inner workings and developing new ways to exploit that. Military's don't share their technologies unless they want to already. We will have access to the generic stuff - like we have now with GPS. But that's limiting because all we can do is use that specific signal. With access to the inner workings you can better integrate your systems so that they work more accurately and effectively (for example if you want less than metre precision for a warhead you might need that code to make flight updates on the fly etc).
And lets not make the mistake that everything is OK in NATO. The US have already previously said that in any major conflict they may shoot down Galileo because it potentially gives other countries access to a service that they can then solely deny to them through removing GPS through changing the code.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
You voted to downgrade the UK to 3rd country status. You can't then be upset about the UK having 3rd country status.
Any money we contributed to it is gone; we're the ones that voided our eligibility to be a part of it. So it won't be developed using UK staff, and we'll have the same access as any other 3rd country.
Regarding the US liking us - Obama openly mocked the "special relationship" the UK has with them, and trump doesn't work that way. I'd much rather throw my lot in with the EU than the US.
This is what people voted for. You can't leave the EU and stay in the EU.
By leaving the EU the UK excludes itself from all EU institutions -- Galileo, Euratom, the European Medical Agency, European City of Culture, Future 2020 science programme, etc, etc.
This is the price for getting out of the customs union, the European Court of Justice and so on.
The EU has been telling us from the beginning that we cannot cherry pick the bits of the EU that we like, and reject only the bits we don't like.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 03:15:59
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
I clearly remember the members now moaning about we're being shut out of Galileo complaining about EU military integration just months ago.
This is what military integration looks like. You share the good and the bad.
Now the UK has access to both user-level GPS and Galileo, maybe BoJo can strike a deal with the Russians to user-level GLONASS and you can pick the best of three.
"Down with the single European state! Down with an EU standing military!"
"Give us EU state secrets! Give us military intelligence!"
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
It has also been pointed on millions of occasions that the vast majority of EU members are also NATO members.
The UK is not leaving NATO.
It will be fun watching Brussels try to square this circle...
Again, so?
Before Galileo gets up and running, NATO uses GPS, the US military system. That doesn't mean NATO countries had access to the code, design and development of the system.
You have no idea what you're talking about, as usual.
It may not matter anyway about anybody's satellite. Solar flares seem to be increasing these days. The Sun, that ball of fire in the sky, as opposed to the rag of a newspaper, is going through one of its periodical 'migraine' cycles.
So? Again, you do not know what you are talking about.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 08:16:58
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 09:32:03
Kilkrazy wrote: This is what people voted for. You can't leave the EU and stay in the EU.
By leaving the EU the UK excludes itself from all EU institutions -- Galileo, Euratom, the European Medical Agency, European City of Culture, Future 2020 science programme, etc, etc.
This is the price for getting out of the customs union, the European Court of Justice and so on.
The EU has been telling us from the beginning that we cannot cherry pick the bits of the EU that we like, and reject only the bits we don't like.
The only cherry-picking I see going on here is from Brussels.
Happy to have British troops in the Baltic, happy to use British intelligence services contribute to EU security, but not to keen on Britain using their satellite...
Unlike other people on this site, I'm happy to criticise my own side and have do so on numerous occasions.
Remain supporters will defend ANYTHING the EU says or does, regardless of how good or bad it is.
When Liam Fox does something dodgy, I'm the first to condemn it.
When Juncker indulges in cronyism and appoints a close friend to a plumb commission job, despite said friend's lack of qualifications,
The silence from Remain supporters on this forum was deafening...
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Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
But it's like somebody giving you the keys to their house, trusting you to look after it whilst their on holiday, letting you eat their food, drive their car, sit on their sofa etc etc
and then turning around and saying under no circumstances do not use the TV...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote: Even after Brexit the UK will remain a member of NATO along with nearly all the EU countries, and will have access to the GPS system.
I think they could have couched the language a lot better.
And yes, I'm happy to knock my own side for some of the stuff we have said to them the last 3 years.
It wasn't helpful...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 09:38:00
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
I understand your angle. At the same time, the system is part developed already, the money has been spent, it is a specifically EU system, and if the UK is to have public level access, it's right that we should have paid something towards development. (Much of that money will have come back to UK based developers anyway.)
But in terms of paying for stuff after we leave, the thing is that the UK made long-term committments, for example to the European Development Bank, which can't simply be abandoned. This is the kind of fallout from Brexit which people should have thought about before voting Leave.
It never was going to be simple to undo 45 years of integration and partnership.
It has also been pointed on millions of occasions that the vast majority of EU members are also NATO members.
The UK is not leaving NATO.
It will be fun watching Brussels try to square this circle...
Again, so?
Before Galileo gets up and running, NATO uses GPS, the US military system. That doesn't mean NATO countries had access to the code, design and development of the system.
You have no idea what you're talking about, as usual.
It may not matter anyway about anybody's satellite. Solar flares seem to be increasing these days. The Sun, that ball of fire in the sky, as opposed to the rag of a newspaper, is going through one of its periodical 'migraine' cycles.
So? Again, you do not know what you are talking about.
Pah! You probably think Galileo is an Italian footballer.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Except that isn't at all what is happening. It even clearly says this in the very line you quoted from the Guardian article. The UK can use the Galileo system. It will not have access to the confidential details of the system.
Kilkrazy wrote: Even after Brexit the UK will remain a member of NATO along with nearly all the EU countries, and will have access to the GPS system.
I think they could have couched the language a lot better.
Their language is fine. The issue is your reading comprehension.
Pah! You probably think Galileo is an Italian footballer.
I'm an astrophysicist. I actually bother to research my points, unlike you. Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 09:47:18
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
Negativ effects of brexit. Crime statistics in GB.
You have been proven wrong multiple times in this thread, because you "don't care about details" just about headlines and feels.
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
The parliament (voted by everyone in the EU) votes a Commission president. The other 27 commissioners (one per country) are instead chosen by the EU Council, which is a posh way of saying "all of the EU heads of government sitting on the same room trying to decide on something".
But it's a moot point because an EU army only answerable to the Commission is tinfoil hat material.
And yes, of course there is a we don't trust you component. You decided to leave, trust needs to be gained back.
That said, this is mostly fallout from the increasingly isolationist US that has caught the UK at the worst possible time. I'm sure eventually the EU and UK will forge closer defence ties either through NATO or by other means. But again, this needs to be scaled slowy because fellow NATO member Turkey has been asking for the kind of in-and-out position the UK seems to be aiming for.
And remember, the UK voted against creating the EU common defence fund in 2013.... which should they benefit from it now they're out?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 10:07:57
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
Negativ effects of brexit. Crime statistics in GB.
You have been proven wrong multiple times in this thread, because you "don't care about details" just about headlines and feels.
Eh?
The crime statistics I highlighted came from a BBC article that showed violent crime was up.
If I could fake webpages, I would not be commentating on dakkadakka
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
The parliament (voted by everyone in the EU) votes a Commission president. The other 27 commissioners (one per country) are instead chosen by the EU Council, which is a posh way of saying "all of the EU heads of government sitting on the same room trying to decide on something".
But it's a moot point because an EU army only answerable to the Commission is tinfoil hat material.
And yes, of course there is a we don't trust you component. You decided to leave, trust needs to be gained back.
That said, this is mostly fallout from the increasingly isolationist US that has caught the UK at the worst possible time. I'm sure eventually the EU and UK will forge closer defence ties either through NATO or by other means. But again, this needs to be scaled slowy because fellow NATO member Turkey has been asking for the kind of in-and-out position the UK seems to be aiming for.
That sounds like a lot of layers that insulates the common man from the people who make decisions that effect his life...
Reminds me of a certain system that used to hang around Moscow between 1925-1991
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 10:08:05
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
Galileo, Europe not being a world leader because the US has Apple and Amazon, Crime (and your "solution" of gun wielding vigilantes), effects that Brexit will have on UK economy, industry, higher education funding, science, etc.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Big kick-off in Parliament yesterday, and there is potential for more aggro today as it's beginning to look like May soft-soaped the Tory Rebels a bit unrealistically, and they are getting up in arms again.
I was reading an article in which Rees-Mogg said constitutionally Parliament should not be allowed to bind the government's hands over Brexit, and so on. It occurred to me that Parliament has spent centuries gradually wrestling powers away from the crown, so there's no reason why Parliament shouldn't wrestle the power of Brext away from the government.
That certainly would be a more accurate reflection of "the will of the people" than the will of the entirely unelected cabinet is.
There's enough pie charts, graphs, bar charts, and stats in that article to keep reds8n and Malus happy for a long time.
Unfortunately, they all point to the same thing: crime is up
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote: Big kick-off in Parliament yesterday, and there is potential for more aggro today as it's beginning to look like May soft-soaped the Tory Rebels a bit unrealistically, and they are getting up in arms again.
I was reading an article in which Rees-Mogg said constitutionally Parliament should not be allowed to bind the government's hands over Brexit, and so on. It occurred to me that Parliament has spent centuries gradually wrestling powers away from the crown, so there's no reason why Parliament shouldn't wrestle the power of Brext away from the government.
That certainly would be a more accurate reflection of "the will of the people" than the will of the entirely unelected cabinet is.
When push comes to shove, the Tory rebels will forget their principals and reach for the nearest expense claims form.
And I still don't know how you can be a member of a party who's leader is a bigger EU opponent than I am...
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
Galileo, Europe not being a world leader because the US has Apple and Amazon, Crime (and your "solution" of gun wielding vigilantes), effects that Brexit will have on UK economy, industry, higher education funding, science, etc.
Your purposefully misinterpreting my argument about Apple and Amazon.
My argument was this: the tech and IT future is being shaped by American values and beliefs. Why isn't Europe having the same impact?
What I got instead from other people was shipping containers and food production. Now, both of these things are important, but my focus was on social media, tech, IT, online purchases etc etc
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 10:20:32
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
The parliament (voted by everyone in the EU) votes a Commission president. The other 27 commissioners (one per country) are instead chosen by the EU Council, which is a posh way of saying "all of the EU heads of government sitting on the same room trying to decide on something".
But it's a moot point because an EU army only answerable to the Commission is tinfoil hat material.
And yes, of course there is a we don't trust you component. You decided to leave, trust needs to be gained back.
That said, this is mostly fallout from the increasingly isolationist US that has caught the UK at the worst possible time. I'm sure eventually the EU and UK will forge closer defence ties either through NATO or by other means. But again, this needs to be scaled slowy because fellow NATO member Turkey has been asking for the kind of in-and-out position the UK seems to be aiming for.
That sounds like a lot of layers that insulates the common man from the people who make decisions that effect his life...
Reminds me of a certain system that used to hang around Moscow between 1925-1991
I'll save this post for the next time I need a quick example of the anti-EU hyperbole-cum-misinformation that hardcore Brexiteers have been throwing around for years.
Now, let's forget this politics carry on, and head over to the world cup thread for some football banter.
I shall be spending the next 4 weeks there when I visit dakka, and will probably forget about the UK politics thread. No doubt some people will be relieved.
But it's summertime anyway, and our MPs will be off on their holidays, so it's always a quiet time for UK politics.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
Personal favourite from a while back was you proudly boasting about how exports were going up, whilst the news story of the day was the decline in exports.
A huge chunk of all these threads is people explaining that what you are saying is in fact anti-truth.
It's been quite remarkable -- and you're far from alone in this regards -- watching the journey from everything will be better out of the Eu and we'll all be better off to the more recent claims that whilst we might be living in caves and using flint tools again, we will at least have blue passports woad skin again.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Pretty much every nation that exisits or existed conquered others - agreed not globally but usually locally.
Does conquering part count? We haven't conquered other country at least in full. We did manage to conquer part of Soviet Union though while they were too busy defending against the nazi invasion! Not that it did us much good when they finally turned half an attention toward us crushing our lines while rushing toward Berlin.
And I take it they won’t be returning the money we contributed?
Honestly, if they don’t trust us anymore, maybe we should just leave NATO while we’re at it.
You decided to go out of EU. OF COURSE you don't get benefits EU members get. What? You think you can automatically benefit from all the things EU members get without being member? Tzk tzk tzk silly you. Here's real world lesson from you. You don't get to cherry pick all the best things as you will. Don't expect to benefit from EU things without being member. Once you are out you are out and then welfare of UK isn't concern for EU unless it benefits more the EU. If it benefits EUUK can burn. You wanted out, learn to live with it and don't cry like a baby when you don't get the benefits.
Enjoy the blue passports(that you could have got anyway). Don't cry when your economy is ruined.
You KNEW this was coming. YOU VOTED FOR THIS! Don't cry when you get what you voted for! It's like baby crying stomach hurt when baby got the candy he asked even though mother told the baby it would make stomach ache.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
Why would EU trust UK? You chose to become competitors rather than members. You opted to be less trustworthy than before. You don't trust competitors. You can work with them but still they are competing with you. UK decided to turn it into you vs us situation. Why are you surprised EU responding in kind?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 11:43:02
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
I understand your angle. At the same time, the system is part developed already, the money has been spent, it is a specifically EU system, and if the UK is to have public level access, it's right that we should have paid something towards development. (Much of that money will have come back to UK based developers anyway.)
But in terms of paying for stuff after we leave, the thing is that the UK made long-term committments, for example to the European Development Bank, which can't simply be abandoned. This is the kind of fallout from Brexit which people should have thought about before voting Leave.
It never was going to be simple to undo 45 years of integration and partnership.
Fair points.
I know we’re on different sides, and that in the past we might have been antagonistic, but I like to think that we’re now getting closer and closer to reaching a concensus. Perhaps even being friends.
Pretty much every nation that exisits or existed conquered others - agreed not globally but usually locally.
Does conquering part count? We haven't conquered other country at least in full. We did manage to conquer part of Soviet Union though while they were too busy defending against the nazi invasion! Not that it did us much good when they finally turned half an attention toward us crushing our lines while rushing toward Berlin.
And I take it they won’t be returning the money we contributed?
Honestly, if they don’t trust us anymore, maybe we should just leave NATO while we’re at it.
You decided to go out of EU. OF COURSE you don't get benefits EU members get. What? You think you can automatically benefit from all the things EU members get without being member? Tzk tzk tzk silly you. Here's real world lesson from you. You don't get to cherry pick all the best things as you will. Don't expect to benefit from EU things without being member. Once you are out you are out and then welfare of UK isn't concern for EU unless it benefits more the EU. If it benefits EUUK can burn. You wanted out, learn to live with it and don't cry like a baby when you don't get the benefits.
Enjoy the blue passports(that you could have got anyway). Don't cry when your economy is ruined.
You KNEW this was coming. YOU VOTED FOR THIS! Don't cry when you get what you voted for! It's like baby crying stomach hurt when baby got the candy he asked even though mother told the baby it would make stomach ache.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Future War Cultist wrote: I actually understand where the eu is coming from. Since we’re no longer members it stands to reason that we won’t be getting access to their stuff. I just thought it was cheeky of them to immediately jump to “we don’t trust you anymore”. It’s would also cheeky of them to say ‘you can’t get your money back on it’ whilst also saying ‘you still have to pay for x y and z after you leave’.
And there’s a world of difference between fellow NATO members sharing and pooling resources and what the eu wants, which is its own army answerable only to its commission.
Why would EU trust UK? You chose to become competitors rather than members. You opted to be less trustworthy than before. You don't trust competitors. You can work with them but still they are competing with you. UK decided to turn it into you vs us situation. Why are you surprised EU responding in kind?
Do not speak to me or anyone else in here in that condescending tone again. Your attitude here, everywhere, is fething gak. And I reported your gak from the other thread and I’ve done so here again. Everyone was being civil-ish until you stormed in calling names and being sarcastic. Now back the feth off.
Great, my reaching out to Kilkrazy has been soiled.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/14 13:00:59
Honestly, half the time i read this thread it looks like this in my head:
(Warning, theres a swear!):
Spoiler:
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
We have different ideas about the best thing for the UK and we recognise there have to be compromises on various areas, for example the EFTA membership idea which gives the UK many of the advantages of EU membership with the added advantage of being able to make trade deals without the EU, but allows freedom of movement.
Whatever form of Brexit may be achieved, the EU will not vanish. It will continue to be the UK's most important trading partner for years, and also the most culturally similar region of the world, where lots of Brits want to live, work or at least go on holiday.
Therefore it's worth making some sacrifices when dealing with the EU now, in order to preserve good neighbour status for the future.
We have different ideas about the best thing for the UK and we recognise there have to be compromises on various areas, for example the EFTA membership idea which gives the UK many of the advantages of EU membership with the added advantage of being able to make trade deals without the EU, but allows freedom of movement.
Whatever form of Brexit may be achieved, the EU will not vanish. It will continue to be the UK's most important trading partner for years, and also the most culturally similar region of the world, where lots of Brits want to live, work or at least go on holiday.
Therefore it's worth making some sacrifices when dealing with the EU now, in order to preserve good neighbour status for the future.
I wish we had an applause emoticon.
But yeah, you’re absolutely right, and it’s wonderful to say that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/14 13:03:57
Every time you post, you just make yourself look even more uninformed on just about every issue this thread discusses.
Such as?
Personal favourite from a while back was you proudly boasting about how exports were going up, whilst the news story of the day was the decline in exports.
A huge chunk of all these threads is people explaining that what you are saying is in fact anti-truth.
It's been quite remarkable -- and you're far from alone in this regards -- watching the journey from everything will be better out of the Eu and we'll all be better off to the more recent claims that whilst we might be living in caves and using flint tools again, we will at least have blue passports woad skin again.
In my defence, the whole blue passport thing was comedy banter directed at yourself and Kilkrazy, and other Remain supporters. Much like Farage on the Thames, which I laughed at and thought silly, even though I was technically on the same side as Farage.
It was all tongue in cheek, good natured fun.
Hand on heart, I've never given two hoots what colour my passport is, and for what it's worth, it was the last thing on my mind when I voted Brexit.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
