Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The warstriders are essentially twice as big as a heavy tank, so the Eden (medium) can move one at a time, and the Gaia (heavy) can move up to three. Other races may get larger units in future.... getting ahead of myself here though!

RiTides wrote:Nice, Reecius! Orlanth, from reading your transcripts I didn't see most of this section that was on Reecius' blog, was there a post that I missed, or did you not stay till the end of the Q&A, or edit it out, etc?

I came and scooped up the Q&A several times over the day. However with Facebooks autoprune going on I didnt get everything, as I didnt stay 12 hours. The last hours worth I p[icked up the next day.
Furtunately there was a lot of overlap, all but the first two posts were continuous, because I checked every three hours at first and didnt know the Q&A was autopruned by Facebook. For every post I made after the second Daves comments dovetailed into each other, i.e. the copy/paste before editing included the last of his previous comments.
So if I missed anything it would be just after the start or in the early afternoon.

Mwahahaahahahaaa! Huge vehicles!

Sounds good*, but remember that unless they're self-droppable then Hawk will probably have to design a matching huge dropship to allow them work in some scenarios (well, perhaps a redesign of the existing heavy dropships with a single mount point).

I can see why this wasn't something attempted for the launch, probably looking at a time when the game is more established.

*Really want a Titan-sized PHR Walker now...

Hmm, it may be that instead of making new dropships for the massive units, he could simply work it so that several dropships carry one unit. Say two mediums or two heavy drop ships to carry one Mumak sized death machine.

wouldn't really fit with the "Every unit can be physically carried in its corresponding dropship" ethos he's going for, would it?

Polonius wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Polonius wrote:2) GW models tie into a great IP that encourages emotional investment. People relate to Orks, Blood Angels, and Death Guard far more than they relate to Menoth and Trollbloods.

While you’re right that relative value is more than just the comparative cost ($) of the game, I take grave issue with this comment of yours. Why would people identify more with Orks than Trollbloods? Or Blood Angels more than Menoth? What basis do you have for such an assertion?

Now I don’t play a lot of games because I have no interest in their settings, so in my case I don’t identify with Menoth or Trollbloods because I have no real investment in the background for Warmachine/Hordes. 40K on the other hand I have a lot of investment in because I really like the setting. But what if I was the opposite of that? Would I be unable to have as much investment in Menoth as someone else has in their Grey Knight force?

The basis is the fact that I've met people that speak of their GW armies with strong emotion. I haven't seen the PP crowd associate the same way. It's a cool world, but not as immersive as the GW world. Some of that is because we know the details so tightly in PP: you're not raising a new regiment or Warband, but you play a specific warcaster.

PP is a good example of how to grow that, by the way. They'be leaked out enough lore to hook people on it, instead of just the mechanics. I like the idea of building a lael liberation force, for example. The problem is that the GW background is a framework and a set of tools. the PP background is a mural. You can pick a part to be, but you can't really add your own.

So, I suppose you can take grave issue if you'd like, but until I see evidence of people diving in to the backgrounds for Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, etc. to that extent, I'm going to stand by my assertion.

I have to agree with this. Many games like Battletech, malifaux, WM/H and the like do not interest me as much as 40k simply for the fact given here. I want to build and create fluff just as much as like to win.

Think on this perspective, in 40k you can fight a battle and then build fluff on it right? But can you do this in any or the afore mentioned games? Will it have any effect on the next set of fluff? GW has actually ADDED in peoples custom chapters or hive fleets or even craftworlds.

Just my 2 pennines

Yes super heavies in the near future!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ratbarf wrote:Hmm, it may be that instead of making new dropships for the massive units, he could simply work it so that several dropships carry one unit. Say two mediums or two heavy drop ships to carry one Mumak sized death machine.

More likely that a heavy unit takes up multiple slots as seen in the warpgates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Riquende wrote:Sounds good*, but remember that unless they're self-droppable then Hawk will probably have to design a matching huge dropship to allow them work in some scenarios (well, perhaps a redesign of the existing heavy dropships with a single mount point).

I can see why this wasn't something attempted for the launch, probably looking at a time when the game is more established.

*Really want a Titan-sized PHR Walker now...

Think more Sentinal/Dreadknight sized since they are Space Marine sized atm. . .

So, I keep looking over this game, and it looks fairly cool and I'm fairly excited over its release. However, every time I look at the models, especially the Shaltari, I'm stuck thinking "**** that, painting those things look incredibly complex and I'll never even come close to the ridiculous (-ly amazing) box art"

While it's a good problem to have I guess for a company, such thoughts did put me off the Shaltari at least.

Lysenis wrote:

Riquende wrote:Sounds good*, but remember that unless they're self-droppable then Hawk will probably have to design a matching huge dropship to allow them work in some scenarios (well, perhaps a redesign of the existing heavy dropships with a single mount point).

I can see why this wasn't something attempted for the launch, probably looking at a time when the game is more established.

*Really want a Titan-sized PHR Walker now...

Think more Sentinal/Dreadknight sized since they are Space Marine sized atm. . .

I believe he means *epic* titan sized, which would fit?

If there was something as big as a 40k titan it'd have to deployed like a titan which i think are dropped in a massive drop pod type thing. Then recovered after the battle.

It sounds like the universe must have spaceships. Maybe in the distant future assuming this stuff goes well there may be a space combat game too.

At the opposite maybe a larger scale skirmish game eventually.

One thing at a time though!

I keep flicking back to the picture of the PHR large army. I ordered it but i know its over a month till i get it so I'm crawling up the walls now.

ThomasPolder wrote:

Lysenis wrote:

Riquende wrote:Sounds good*, but remember that unless they're self-droppable then Hawk will probably have to design a matching huge dropship to allow them work in some scenarios (well, perhaps a redesign of the existing heavy dropships with a single mount point).

I can see why this wasn't something attempted for the launch, probably looking at a time when the game is more established.

*Really want a Titan-sized PHR Walker now...

Think more Sentinal/Dreadknight sized since they are Space Marine sized atm. . .

I believe he means *epic* titan sized, which would fit?

Is that not SM size or just a bit bigger?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:So, I keep looking over this game, and it looks fairly cool and I'm fairly excited over its release. However, every time I look at the models, especially the Shaltari, I'm stuck thinking "**** that, painting those things look incredibly complex and I'll never even come close to the ridiculous (-ly amazing) box art"

While it's a good problem to have I guess for a company, such thoughts did put me off the Shaltari at least.

Oh come on with the things you paint it will not be to hard. Drybrusing and such will be the easy part truthfully. After that all you do is put a drop of paint on the tips and its done (varnish of course) Trust me it wont be all that bad, I am still doing my alterante paint scheme for any army I touch.

obsidianaura wrote:If there was something as big as a 40k titan it'd have to deployed like a titan which i think are dropped in a massive drop pod type thing. Then recovered after the battle.

It sounds like the universe must have spaceships. Maybe in the distant future assuming this stuff goes well there may be a space combat game too.

At the opposite maybe a larger scale skirmish game eventually.

One thing at a time though!

I keep flicking back to the picture of the PHR large army. I ordered it but i know its over a month till i get it so I'm crawling up the walls now.

MWUHAHAHAHAHAHA I cant wait, since BFG went out my Space Combat games have dwindled to non existiant. . .

Lysenis wrote:

ThomasPolder wrote:

Lysenis wrote:

Riquende wrote:Sounds good*, but remember that unless they're self-droppable then Hawk will probably have to design a matching huge dropship to allow them work in some scenarios (well, perhaps a redesign of the existing heavy dropships with a single mount point).

I can see why this wasn't something attempted for the launch, probably looking at a time when the game is more established.

*Really want a Titan-sized PHR Walker now...

Think more Sentinal/Dreadknight sized since they are Space Marine sized atm. . .

I believe he means *epic* titan sized, which would fit?

Is that not SM size or just a bit bigger?

What I meant was a walker that, in scale, was the same size as a Titan (Warlord I suppose), in whatever scale you care to use. For me, that is Epic (and no it's not SM size, they're on 50mm bases). So somthing that size, or a little bigger. Obviously without all the skulls and assorted nonsense GW shove on all their crap these days.

[quote=LysenisI have to agree with this. Many games like Battletech, malifaux, WM/H and the like do not interest me as much as 40k simply for the fact given here. I want to build and create fluff just as much as like to win.

Think on this perspective, in 40k you can fight a battle and then build fluff on it right? But can you do this in any or the afore mentioned games? Will it have any effect on the next set of fluff? GW has actually ADDED in peoples custom chapters or hive fleets or even craftworlds.

Just my 2 pennines

I can follow that idea, let me ask you something. Can you create your own nation? Made up with whatever casters and jacks you want?

Lets retool this question to 40k, can I create my own SM chapter that each company uses a diffrent codex? Lets say 3rd uses the BA codex, 6th is a SW Missile spam, 1st is Deathwing, 8th is vanilla. Could I?

Lysenis wrote:I can follow that idea, let me ask you something. Can you create your own nation? Made up with whatever casters and jacks you want?

in warmachine you take an active part in the setting, but you don't control the setting. You pick a faction and play as the members of that faction in their battles. This gives a closer link to the setting as any updated storyline can and often will directly effect your faction or your favorite warcaster, sometimes resulting in them getting new versions to show their progression through life. There is no way, however, to actually create a faction, nor is there any method to have a customized commander. It's sort of the difference between western and JRPGs. Ones good for telling a coherent story and having you take part in it, the other is good for expressing a multifaceted and explorable world and having you effect it.

Lets retool this question to 40k, can I create my own SM chapter that each company uses a diffrent codex? Lets say 3rd uses the BA codex, 6th is a SW Missile spam, 1st is Deathwing, 8th is vanilla. Could I?

No. Your example is also kind of lame and exploitative for the kind of things you can do and manipulate given the "freedom of identity" in 40k. You just presented a strong counter argument to the value of your own position.

I like how everything is individual targeted and fired. Means I can use combined arms battlegroups. Put a AA tank in every group or babysit my APC's with a MBT. If I want a 'grand battery' of long range weapons somewhere too.

I think the terrain looks killer but not so much sci fi. It matches the abandoned human worlds background very well but I really would like a remote outpost type board with a more sci fi industrial feel.

jedi76 wrote:I like how everything is individual targeted and fired. Means I can use combined arms battlegroups. Put a AA tank in every group or babysit my APC's with a MBT. If I want a 'grand battery' of long range weapons somewhere too.

I think the terrain looks killer but not so much sci fi. It matches the abandoned human worlds background very well but I really would like a remote outpost type board with a more sci fi industrial feel.

I'm going to hold off on judging terrain until I see what people actually do with it. The terrain jobs done by Hawk itself is award winning masterclass level for painting and buffing out. When I see what some 17 year old manages to do after school i'll know how I feel.

Lysenis wrote:I can follow that idea, let me ask you something. Can you create your own nation? Made up with whatever casters and jacks you want?

Lets retool this question to 40k, can I create my own SM chapter that each company uses a diffrent codex? Lets say 3rd uses the BA codex, 6th is a SW Missile spam, 1st is Deathwing, 8th is vanilla. Could I?

i dont understand your point.
in warmachine you can make a force with mercinary characters, jacks or units. yet you cant take an ork boyz squad in a marine army.
the different codex's and list types you mention are no different than a dzc list with more heavy tanks compared to one with more walkers or a jack heavy warmachine list compared to a force with no jacks and with warmachine you can play hordes against them, which is really cool as hordes plays very differently to warmachine and yet is compatible.
if you like making distinctly different lists then infinity is where you want to look each faction can make more list combinations in a standard 150-200 point game than any 40k codex and each will have its advantages and disadvantages compared to the missile spam, grey knight spam or leafblower lists in 40k that rule the game.

Lysenis wrote:I can follow that idea, let me ask you something. Can you create your own nation? Made up with whatever casters and jacks you want?

Lets retool this question to 40k, can I create my own SM chapter that each company uses a diffrent codex? Lets say 3rd uses the BA codex, 6th is a SW Missile spam, 1st is Deathwing, 8th is vanilla. Could I?

No you can't make up your own caracters any more in 40K then you can in WH. What you can do is change the name and fluff from the ones in the book. You can do that with any and all systems with named characters, how is 40K different here? It's fluff, if you really can't find a way to make it your own, then I think it a problem you have. Open your mind and stop limiting yourself.

Noir wrote:

Lysenis wrote:I can follow that idea, let me ask you something. Can you create your own nation? Made up with whatever casters and jacks you want?

Lets retool this question to 40k, can I create my own SM chapter that each company uses a diffrent codex? Lets say 3rd uses the BA codex, 6th is a SW Missile spam, 1st is Deathwing, 8th is vanilla. Could I?

No you can't make up your own caracters any more in 40K then you can in WH. What you can do is change the name and fluff from the ones in the book. You can do that with any and all systems with named characters, how is 40K different here? It's fluff, if you really can't find a way to make it your own, then I think it a problem you have. Open your mind and stop limiting yourself.

That's kind of a lie. A "space marine captain" doesn't have a name, color scheme, loyalties, hairstyle, or choice of pants. A "Warcaster" is a fully identified and explained entity that the player has no level of interface or customization with. One is designed from the ground up to be a creative endevour, the other is designed from the ground up to be a finalized personae. You can't really do "counts as" forces in warmachine. Other than being illegal in their tournament format the models themselves aren't really customizeable and your "counts as" force is going to be a literal carbon copy of someone elses force that isn't being recolored.

It's a bit rude to have a 40k vs. WM pissing match in a third party's thread, isn't it?

Agamemnon2 wrote:It's a bit rude to have a 40k vs. WM pissing match in a third party's thread, isn't it?

They got 34 pages already and the discussion is tangentially related to the concept of inherent customization within DZC. From a modeling and fluff perspective it's a valuable consideration. The Shaltari and core humans seem quite customizeable, but the PHR and scourge don't really seem so at all. This kind of discussion tends to descent to 40k vs warmachine as those two games form their respective extremes on each side of the value discussion. DZC falls somewhere between the two erring on the side of warmachine for customization of identity.

Agamemnon2 wrote:It's a bit rude to have a 40k vs. WM pissing match in a third party's thread, isn't it?

It actually kind of is.

Please get this one back on topic, and continue all that other stuff in the appropriate sub-forum.

Thanks!

ShumaGorath wrote:

Lysenis wrote:I can follow that idea, let me ask you something. Can you create your own nation? Made up with whatever casters and jacks you want?

in warmachine you take an active part in the setting, but you don't control the setting. You pick a faction and play as the members of that faction in their battles. This gives a closer link to the setting as any updated storyline can and often will directly effect your faction or your favorite warcaster, sometimes resulting in them getting new versions to show their progression through life. There is no way, however, to actually create a faction, nor is there any method to have a customized commander. It's sort of the difference between western and JRPGs. Ones good for telling a coherent story and having you take part in it, the other is good for expressing a multifaceted and explorable world and having you effect it.

Lets retool this question to 40k, can I create my own SM chapter that each company uses a diffrent codex? Lets say 3rd uses the BA codex, 6th is a SW Missile spam, 1st is Deathwing, 8th is vanilla. Could I?

No. Your example is also kind of lame and exploitative for the kind of things you can do and manipulate given the "freedom of identity" in 40k. You just presented a strong counter argument to the value of your own position.

Absolutely. I also would have made this exact comment to yours as a result. I was preemptive that is all.

The point is simple, I have near endless abilities of fluff generation, If I want my IG army to have a history where they had a battalion branch off and go Renegade, and then 300 years later a genestealer cult appeared in the ranks, I can. With WM I am stuck with the pre-generated fluff.

For example, my friend painted his 'nids a Silvery Purple metallic, I HATE the color scheme, but why is he allowed to do it? well 1) It is HIS army, and 2) Where in ANY 40K fluff does it say that there are NO metallic 'nids?

Now in WM if I want to play a particular army do I have to paint them that way? Most likely yes because that is what is stated in the fluff. I do not like restrictions like that, I want impunity to things like that simply because I want to have free range with my mind. This is not to say I could not make a separatist version of that army but what is the point?

I am thinking that DZC fluff will be a mix of everything, if not then I will use the excuse of being my own general with my own tactical insights to paint and fluff my PHR force out how I wish (which seems to me how it is going to be imho)

I love the fact that you can have a balanced battlegroup with AA, MBT, AND a Dropship. With a Fighter Support ohhh the tactical possibilities!

i must get some of these minis I checked out the website and i love them!!!!!!

i have a freind who thinks he might get the PHR, which is bad since they are my favorate faction (They are butiful!!)

My rankings:

PHR
UMC
Scourge
Shaltari (no drop shipee me no likkee)

PS: Scourge Dropships are a little weird. also my freind said the APCs look like beetles so i said i could do a CHARGE OF THE BEETLE BREGADE!!!!!!

@RiTides

I misspoke, we pre-ordered some rule books, they will arrive with us same time as everyone else.

As I understand it, they aren't done with the books yet, they are still hammering out some final points costs for units.

Alpharius wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:It's a bit rude to have a 40k vs. WM pissing match in a third party's thread, isn't it?

It actually kind of is.

Please get this one back on topic, and continue all that other stuff in the appropriate sub-forum.

Thanks!

Seriously!

Reecius- I figured that out from one of Dave's posts about finalizing it, but I think I just mis-read your post more than anything. Looking forward to your review of it when you do get it

When does the NDA expire for those who signed it. Can you talk yet?

Polonius wrote:So, I suppose you can take grave issue if you'd like, but until I see evidence of people diving in to the backgrounds for Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, etc. to that extent, I'm going to stand by my assertion.

Then I'll go one step further and say that your assertion is stupid, or at the very least horrifically narrow-minded. I've seen/spoken to/met people with emotional investments in BattleTech, Pokemon... Halo... Batman... Transformers. Anything! You name it, someone out there cares about it a bit more than your or I might. I don't see how 40K sits above a bunch of other games in this arena, or why someone might choose to have or even inherently have a greater investment in it over any other game (not mentioning WM specifically because it is interchangable with anything that isn't 40K in this example).