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Hmm yeah, you could use dragoons as a followup to them to wreck some tanks/MC, but when we have so much long range shooting we hardly need to go out of our way just to manage that. The armies that use hordes offensively almost always focus on getting into melee (or at least close range), so the deepstrike won't really change things there either.

Here's the damage per point comparison:
1) Shooty priests
2) shooty priests + they make the charge
3) Dakkastelans in protocol with Cawl



I mean, either I made a mistake in math or this is pretty broken

Feel free to check:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8YVEySWItVWNkeDA

Start on row 44 column AS. Rows marked blue are priests, red is dakkastelans

I would like to point out that Lucius isn't all that good. Their Stratagem is good, but the rest is really meh. I mean, Lucius Priests are good, but you don't make an entire army out of that, thats what Patrols are for.

Also can i point out that Vanguard and Rangers getting cheaper is amazing? Seriously, once you start running larger numbers of Skitarii (like 40+) you are saving an awful lot of points, also its not like Vanguard are even bad. They have an Assault 3 gun that can be Damage 2, yes this isn't as good it used to be but its still good. Combine this with Stygies or Graia's Dogmas and you have a solid infantry core, as the only people who are gonna outnumber you are the dedicated hordes (Guard, Orks and Nids) and you have better base weapons than they do. Also we have Ob Sec now, which is nice.

Well, yes I already explained why my math was wrong (thought they'd gone up to 17ppm not the other priests). No one is denying they clear hordes better than anything else in our army. Currently people are discussing: "do we need the ability to deepstrike dedicated horde clearing" and "does their higher firepower justify their lower durability".

There are 3 main lists I want tested:
1. Shooty priest bombs
2. A more defensive version of Mars+Stygy with a melee priest bomb
3. Infantry spam

I'll test 1. You guys test the others :p

SilverAlien wrote:
Well, yes I already explained why my math was wrong (thought they'd gone up to 17ppm not the other priests). No one is denying they clear hordes better than anything else in our army. Currently people are discussing: "do we need the ability to deepstrike dedicated horde clearing" and "does their higher firepower justify their lower durability".

Or you can use a Patrol and DS in one unit to nuke stuff. Thats totally worth it.

SilverAlien wrote:
Well, yes I already explained why my math was wrong (thought they'd gone up to 17ppm not the other priests). No one is denying they clear hordes better than anything else in our army. Currently people are discussing: "do we need the ability to deepstrike dedicated horde clearing" and "does their higher firepower justify their lower durability".

Darn it guys, just say "a LOT higher firepower" :p

Does significantly higher firepower work?

As for testing builds, I'm going to continue my quest to find a brigade army that doesn't suck and make a stygies army. I'm actually looking forward to seeing it in action.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
There are 3 main lists I want tested:
1. Shooty priest bombs
2. A more defensive version of Mars+Stygy with a melee priest bomb
3. Infantry spam

I'll test 1. You guys test the others :p

#2 is what I was already working on. Just hate the idea of buying more Priests

i'm just going to keep working on the grey knights/mechanicum build that's been working for me. can't wait to see how these 3+ grey knights do.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
MNOP you seem to be someone else capable of math. so i'll run this by you before i actually get them and do away with the grey knights. Basic grey knights V Sicarian infiltrators with the stub carbine and power sword.

they have the same survivability against massed infantry attacks (obviously the 2 wound model fears high damage weapons more) but even with the reduction to 2 attacks thats the same CC output as the grey knights. they only have 1 less shot but they get 3 full shots at 18" as opposed to the grey knights who get 2 at 18" but they can also shoot into melee without any gimmicks.

so what i'm thinking is using them vs the grey knights. I know they're more expensive but the HQ tax is much less.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
There are 3 main lists I want tested:
1. Shooty priest bombs
2. A more defensive version of Mars+Stygy with a melee priest bomb
3. Infantry spam

I'll test 1. You guys test the others :p

#2 is what I was already working on. Just hate the idea of buying more Priests

Best way to buy priests is to buy one box then ebay more bodies so you can double what a normal box makes. You will basically get both kinds at a discount price.

I'll proxy some with bloodletters to try before buying Same base, same-ish miniature size

Wulfey wrote:
Damn those artifacts are bad. I never really saw how bad they were all together.

I love useful comments like these. Please elaborate, because they all look pretty reasonable to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I know why, doesn't make it any less embarrassing. Should have sold it for less money as a digital document only, then made print runs later after everything is hammered out. Instead you will have every printed book from now until 9th as incorrect off the shelf.

And then what if something changes after that print run?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
There are 3 main lists I want tested:
1. Shooty priest bombs
2. A more defensive version of Mars+Stygy with a melee priest bomb
3. Infantry spam

I'll test 1. You guys test the others :p

#2 is what I was already working on. Just hate the idea of buying more Priests

Best way to buy priests is to buy one box then ebay more bodies so you can double what a normal box makes. You will basically get both kinds at a discount price.

Best way to buy priests is to buy one box then ebay empire flagellant bodies so you can double what a normal box makes. You will basically get both kinds at a discount price. FTFY

Orock wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
There are 3 main lists I want tested:
1. Shooty priest bombs
2. A more defensive version of Mars+Stygy with a melee priest bomb
3. Infantry spam

I'll test 1. You guys test the others :p

#2 is what I was already working on. Just hate the idea of buying more Priests

Best way to buy priests is to buy one box then ebay more bodies so you can double what a normal box makes. You will basically get both kinds at a discount price.

Best way to buy priests is to buy one box then ebay empire flagellant bodies so you can double what a normal box makes. You will basically get both kinds at a discount price. FTFY

Yea that's the same thing but with alternate bodies. Good way to add variety.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Damn those artifacts are bad. I never really saw how bad they were all together.

I love useful comments like these. Please elaborate, because they all look pretty reasonable to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I know why, doesn't make it any less embarrassing. Should have sold it for less money as a digital document only, then made print runs later after everything is hammered out. Instead you will have every printed book from now until 9th as incorrect off the shelf.

And then what if something changes after that print run?

You fix it then. I mean, you can act willfully ignorant toward what I was saying if you want. Clearly there is a MASSIVE difference between them FAQ'ing a book that's literally on preorder as we speak and them FAQing things as necessary in the future AFTER the dust settles, but I figured that was obvious enough for most folks to grasp on their own. With rumors of the book being FAQ'd before it even arrives in buyers hands it won't help them in the long run, I mean I am less likely to preorder any of the books going forward if all they are is the index + some traits and stratagems, even worse if the book isn't even playable before I crack it open. I'll just buy the data cards and save my money.

Red Corsair wrote:

You fix it then. I mean, you can act willfully ignorant toward what I was saying if you want. Clearly there is a MASSIVE difference between them FAQ'ing a book that's literally on preorder as we speak and them FAQing things as necessary in the future AFTER the dust settles, but I figured that was obvious enough for most folks to grasp on their own. With rumors of the book being FAQ'd before it even arrives in buyers hands it won't help them in the long run, I mean I am less likely to preorder any of the books going forward if all they are is the index + some traits and stratagems, even worse if the book isn't even playable before I crack it open. I'll just buy the data cards and save my money.

And you seem to be willfully ignorant of how long it takes them to print books. Especially with ELEVEN books plus a new edition in three months. That's what we got over four years in the past...WITHOUT responsive updates.

If you're not comfortable with living rules then buy digital and stop whining, because come December even more will change with chapter approved. And the year after that. And the year after that.

About Questor Mechanicus specifically:

No Forge World keyword? So no Teleporting Lucius Knights in then.

Repairing Knights. Can multiple HQ sources (Cawl, TPD, Enginseer) restore wounds to the same knight in a turn?

Maybe that ‘Supreme Command Detachment +1 CP’ might be useful to add in a single Questor Mechanicus Knight. 3 HQ Enginseers giving buffs to 1 LOW Knight?

Daedalus81 wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Damn those artifacts are bad. I never really saw how bad they were all together.

I love useful comments like these. Please elaborate, because they all look pretty reasonable to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I know why, doesn't make it any less embarrassing. Should have sold it for less money as a digital document only, then made print runs later after everything is hammered out. Instead you will have every printed book from now until 9th as incorrect off the shelf.

And then what if something changes after that print run?

Reasonable relics? The various weapons are all flavors of +1 damage on 1 model that isn't suited for close combat. The other relics are typically use once per game if you manage to remember it. None of them can plausibly be used in any sort of strategy. The best one is also the saddest: get 1 CP for holding this relic. The second best one allows you to roll another attempt at overwatch if you hit your overwatch attack. The reroll overwatch one is plausible and I would almost certainly run that one every single game because it gives my kastelans a chance for more shooting. The rest are trash and would never, ever be worth a CP to upgrade a unit. Contrast that with space marine relics. They have characters that can fight in combat and it might be worth upgrading a model to have that fighting ability. And they have the relic banner, which is the basis for numerous, very strong lists centered around high firepower units that tend to die lie devastators. Yes, my opinion on these relics is backed up if you try reading the admech relics and contrasting them with other books. They are junk.

I think it's totally ridiculous that we didn't get a bunch of relic guns.

 ph34r wrote:
I think it's totally ridiculous that we didn't get a bunch of any relic guns.

FTFY.

There are more CC canticles
More CC relics
More CC stratagems (Im guessing)?
Face it guys, GW really wants to sell you those electropriests and run a melee army

Uhh, we did get some (trash) relic guns.

All the Relic weapons are just beyond terrible.

I think the good ones are healing to cheat it out with the healing warlord trait. And teleportation as it is the most flexible in an objectives game. Oh and the CP one obviously

 takonite wrote:
There are more CC canticles
More CC relics
More CC stratagems (Im guessing)?
Face it guys, GW really wants to sell you those electropriests and run a melee army

Yeah, that fact makes me kinda mad as heck. GW expects us to run everybody into close combat?

 ph34r wrote:

 takonite wrote:
There are more CC canticles
More CC relics
More CC stratagems (Im guessing)?
Face it guys, GW really wants to sell you those electropriests and run a melee army

Yeah, that fact makes me kinda mad as heck. GW expects us to run everybody into close combat?

Which makes less sense as this is edition is even more about shooting then ever. but yea, give the frail army CC options...

str00dles1 wrote:

Which makes less sense as this is edition is even more about shooting then ever. but yea, give the frail army CC options...

I wish people would stop saying that.

Shooting has always, and will always, have the virtue of superior reach.

8th has given us the ability for turn 1 assaults while protecting characters from ranged attacks. 8th edition is by far the friendliest edition to melee heavy armies.

We actually got 2 relic guns, problem is they are both meant for tech priest dominus and they don't really help us much because they're supposed to be out of the line of fire, none of those relics are going to turn them into a deadly killing machines. It's really sad that almost all of the relics you could put on Skitarii are gone, including the ones from the Gathering Storm, because some of those were prime for some really cool modeling opportunities.

One tactic I might consider is using a Lucius deep striked electro priest unit as a counter offence. Provide an obvious opening for your opponent to move a unit out of the safety of their carefully constructed 9" perimeter then drop the priests in front of them so they can't charge them and wipe them out. Then your priests are already providing a screen for whatever they dropped in front of and whatever that is can still shoot like you intended.

All theory craft obviously. Just looking for alternate uses for stuff that might not immediately be obvious.

well folks fires of cyriax will be coming out in the moderate future.... lets hope that is good.

gendoikari87 wrote:
well folks fires of cyriax will be coming out in the moderate future....

Sure... I mean, maybe it will coincide with the release of plastic SoB!

 Crimson wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
well folks fires of cyriax will be coming out in the moderate future....

Sure... I mean, maybe it will coincide with the release of plastic SoB!

We're already getting plastic sisters of battle... oh i'm sorry you meant GW plastic sisters.... no those are still forever and a ways away.