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SpaceJS wrote:

 TheNightWillEnd wrote:

SpaceJS wrote:
the mortis contemptor is 206 points, it also moves at 9", you have as many las shots as a predator as well.

Fair enough. You're getting a lot there for 41 more points.

it also looks way better also for 235 points you have a relic contemptor dread which looks even better, more wounds and slower degradation

and has the same 6++ from the GW ven dread.

The 8 Wound dreads don't degrade and that's really valuable.

 axisofentropy wrote:
The 8 Wound dreads don't degrade and that's really valuable.

By how much though? By the time the Ven Dread is at BS3+, the regular one or Ven one is almost dead. Is three wounds before dying at BS2+ worth more than actually being more survivable? Chances are at 3 wounde the opponent is gonna just commit at that point and just kill it.

 axisofentropy wrote:
The 8 Wound dreads don't degrade and that's really valuable.

Only if they survive, and it's not too hard to put 8 wounds on a dread these days with all the Knights and big melee blobs (Bloodletters, Tzaangors with VotLW, etc.) running amok. I really, really want Dreads to be good as I have several of them, but I just don't think they are top tier competitive.

Any tips for dealing with Knights on turn 1? (/ other T8 high invuln units). It generally takes my Hellblasters a turn to get into effective range and normally I can weather the storm for a turn with Az and -1 to hit, and then hit hard when my Inceptors come in, but I've really started to feel the need to put the hurt on earlier. Is simple lascannons the way to go? Or am I better off dealing with them some other way?

 Brother Payne wrote:
Any tips for dealing with Knights on turn 1? (/ other T8 high invuln units). It generally takes my Hellblasters a turn to get into effective range and normally I can weather the storm for a turn with Az and -1 to hit, and then hit hard when my Inceptors come in, but I've really started to feel the need to put the hurt on earlier. Is simple lascannons the way to go? Or am I better off dealing with them some other way?

I decided to get a sicaran venator, very good value for the amount of damage it can do. Besides that engaging it into CC with a contemptor dread also works really well but Las cannons is also a option.

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought (Melta Lance or Storm Canons), Hellblasters, Inceptors and Veterans with plasma are your best bet vs an Imperial Knight.

Melee-wise, a Leviathan, Relic Contemptor, DW Knights or, well, another Imperial Knight, also works

 Brother Payne wrote:
Any tips for dealing with Knights on turn 1? (/ other T8 high invuln units). It generally takes my Hellblasters a turn to get into effective range and normally I can weather the storm for a turn with Az and -1 to hit, and then hit hard when my Inceptors come in, but I've really started to feel the need to put the hurt on earlier. Is simple lascannons the way to go? Or am I better off dealing with them some other way?

I'm toying with putting a Castellan in my list.

 Brother Payne wrote:
Any tips for dealing with Knights on turn 1? (/ other T8 high invuln units). It generally takes my Hellblasters a turn to get into effective range and normally I can weather the storm for a turn with Az and -1 to hit, and then hit hard when my Inceptors come in, but I've really started to feel the need to put the hurt on earlier. Is simple lascannons the way to go? Or am I better off dealing with them some other way?

It's hard to go wrong with 4 Lascannon Devs, with a cherub in there to give you a 5th shot on one turn. You can at least force your Knight opponent to spend the CP to use Rotate Ion Shields, meaning he won't have those CP later unless he also has a Guard CP battery in his list. Otherwise, the above posters have a great idea in just bringing a Knight of your own, preferably a Castellan. You'll have to cut stuff out to fit a 600-point model in, but it can be done.

I was also toying with the idea of a castellan but it feels a bit like an "if you can't beat them, join them" cop out. I think I'll start with las devs (simply because I have them readily available), but I actually really like the idea of a venator. Even if you roll low on damage that -1 to hit modifier is a big deal and when stacked with a darkshroud and maybe even aversion, that could render a knight largely useless. I'll see if I can proxy one and give it a go

 Brother Payne wrote:
I was also toying with the idea of a castellan but it feels a bit like an "if you can't beat them, join them" cop out. I think I'll start with las devs (simply because I have them readily available), but I actually really like the idea of a venator. Even if you roll low on damage that -1 to hit modifier is a big deal and when stacked with a darkshroud and maybe even aversion, that could render a knight largely useless. I'll see if I can proxy one and give it a go

yeah that is my idea to get at those baneblades, i am also adding a librarian with jump pack and the shroud of hero's to add mind wipe and aversion on the baneblade.

My latest list idea is to use a House Raven Crusader to save points over a Castellan (plus the fact that I don't currently own a Castellan...), along with the standard Azrael Hellblaster blob. To wrangle one more command point, I actually replaced a unit of Hellblasters with some Plasma Inceptors so that I could get an Outrider along with the Battalion and SHA. Here's my first rough idea for the list:

Basically the Knight sits back and blasts things while the Azrael blob slowly moves up the board. The Inceptors will usually drop near Az for the rerolls on their guns, but have the option to drop further away if I really need something dead that is too far away from him. One thing I have considered is taking the Rapid Fire Battle Cannon instead of the Thermal, but it is more points and doesn't have the same armor penetration ability, although it does get twice as many shots on average, so...eh. I'd have to drop a Scout Bike to make that happen, but that is definitely doable. I also have to live without the banner, but there's nothing I can easily trade out to fit an Ancient in there unfortunately.

AFAIK, SHAD doesn't let you take the 'chapter tactics' of a House. You need at least 3 Knights in the same detachment for that.

If you use the Stratagem to make it a character, it'll be able to use Relics, Warlord Traits and Stratagems of Imprium/Admech loyality, though.

 Vector Strike wrote:
AFAIK, SHAD doesn't let you take the 'chapter tactics' of a House. You need at least 3 Knights in the same detachment for that.

If you use the Stratagem to make it a character, it'll be able to use Relics, Warlord Traits and Stratagems of Imprium/Admech loyality, though.

Correct, you don't get the trait. I would take it for the stratagem, as the Raven one is really good.

So, recently a few of my friends and I started talking about a potential hidden gem from Index: Imperium 1. That being the Rhino Primaris. It gives a unit within 12" +1 to their hit rolls, which due to how modifiers are applied completely negates the chance of overcharged plasma blowing up your guys. That is very spicy! In addition, it has a one-off d3 shot S10 AP-4 d6 damage shooting attack that can hit things out of LOS, and it has a twin plasma gun as its armament and a small transport capacity (could hide a scout unit and/or character inside to reduce drops). The only downside to me is its hefty points cost (170), which is probably too much for what it does. Still, it might be worth considering.

If the Rhino Primaris doesn't just target Marines, sure it's an idea. It also has that one attack for some quick wounds too.

The +1 to hit only targets any <CHAPTER> unit, which as per what it says in the Index means that keyword is replaced by <DARK ANGELS>, so it only works for Dark Angels units. It does say unit and doesn't specify infantry or anything, so it can buff anything you need it to. It's a pretty nifty buff for some overcharging Inceptors or Hellblasters or even a Land Speeder Vengeance (not that those are that good). And that d3 shot Orbital Array attack (that I like to call Rods From God) is great for picking off a vehicle that is hiding out of LOS.

That +1 go hit can also offset Altioc, making it viable to overcharge again. I used one in a apoc battle once and it did a decent job. Its is more difficult to work into a 2k pt list though unless you build around it a little.

Also unless you hide it it will get focused, and it is not hard to kill.

So I was looking throught the ETC lists and saw a mere four lists with any Dark Angels in them at all, and only one of those was pure DA. One list was mostly Custodes bikers with a DA battalion consisting of a Lieutenant, Librarian, and 3 Scout squads. Another was Imperial Soup with a funny detachment consisting of Sammael in Sableclaw, a Talonmaster, and Bjorn the Fell-handed. Not sure what that one was about. The third one I saw was the pure DA one, with the standard Azrael+LT+Darkshroud+Ancient with two big units of Hellblasters, along with 3 Dark Talons. The last one was Sammy, a Talonmaster, and 3 Scout squads along with 3 Imperial Knights (Castellan, Crusader, and Gallant). That honestly was the one that piqued my interest the most, as that is a combo I'm considering running at some point.

What's the name of the pure DA player? It's closer to what I want to play with (except I don't have any flyers)

The pure list is being run by Christophe Baudar of Team Belgium. I was reluctant to post full lists here because I don't want to get in trouble, but at the same time I thought they might stimulate a bit of discussion, hence why I mentioned them in my earlier post.

And you should get yourself at least one Dark Talon. Those things are money! I wasn't sold on them at first after the price hike, but really they were actually broken at 160 points. They are very good at making hordes disappear. Baudar's list has 3 Dark Talons and a unit of Aggressors for horde clearing, and that's probably all he needs really.

2 Dark Angels 3-0 at BAO. Check your BCP app for the list. None are pure the the first place list is primarily DA with all the good stuff. Talon Master and Sammy, Dark Talons and a Shroud. Small Bike squad. BA Battalion. Good, smart list. Uses the BA to do what DA cant and that combat. The rest shoot. Will be interesting to see how it deals with Tau/Dark Eld and Knights in the next couple of games.

The other list are dreads. Interesting list not sure if its something i would run.. but it seems to be working.

Need to look at some of the lists both of these guys beat.

The first guy you mentioned faced Deathwatch, Tau, and Alaitoc, and then got beaten in game 4 by Custodes (with the obligatory Guard CP farm).

yea saw that.

Shaun is running a 4 dread spearhead with a Catachan Batt and is so far 4-0.
He has beat Dark Eldar, Eldar, Necrons and an Assault Knight list consisting of a Valiant.

Very interesting results.

Looks like he might have to play an all Knight list next if the rankings stay the same

I really hope that sometime this year GW fixes the game so that Imperial armies can be contenders, staying pure faction. Drives me nuts that you need to do this soup stuff to do well.

 djones520 wrote:
I really hope that sometime this year GW fixes the game so that Imperial armies can be contenders, staying pure faction. Drives me nuts that you need to do this soup stuff to do well.

soup is a thing. Not saying im happy about it.. however i dont see anything pure winning tournaments for the most part anymore. However ive embraced it as reality. I think Shauns list does a decent job of going almost all DA.


What interests me is if he used the DW strat and Deep struck any of those Levis.

I also think Shaun has dodged a bit of a bullet here. Both Knight lists havent fielded a single Castellian..

Is there anywhere I can check the current rankings inside both BAO and ETC tourneys?

Please post some DA lists from BAO and ETC, really interested in what people are running in competetive play.

Okay, here are some lists from those events.
ETC lists:
Ivan Katic:

Aleksey Ershov:

Christophe Baudar

Klemen Ponikvar


BAO lists:
Aaron Wisch:

Shaun Sharp:


Those are all I could find; hope that helps!

Any idea how Christophe did? That list would be the closest to what I would run.