Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

more ideas...

I'm not sure about the grey knight something seems a bit off about his pose.

The Necromancer drawing looks excellent.

the kicking leg needs to be higher I think, and the right arm further back

Shame you didn't get anything in GD :(
But honestly I love some of these concepts especially the 300 Grey Knight, I'll have to start following you more intensley now
The only thing I can suggest right now is not to call it "I have a cunning plan" because the only other guy I never knew to say that was this fellow.

And we all know how that turned out...

 Krellnus wrote:
Shame you didn't get anything in GD :(
But honestly I love some of these concepts especially the 300 Grey Knight, I'll have to start following you more intensley now
The only thing I can suggest right now is not to call it "I have a cunning plan" because the only other guy I never knew to say that was this fellow.

And we all know how that turned out...

lol yes, yes we do!

In regards to the GK pose, if you were considering pursuing the slightly toungue in cheek posing, perhaps if he's kicking him so hard in the groin that his skin has split and ruptured and the GK leg is travelling up into his soggy body?

AWESOME! I want all your sketch books or I'm never ever posting again.

Like the idea of the GK/daemons... Would it be cool, maybe rather than a kick, as it just seems abit un-Space marineey, if you had a backhand sweep decapitation or somin'?

I feel a little confused at the moment... and at times like these, I ask myself: What do I want to achieve?
- Grey Knight
- looking cool, strong, in control
- some evidence of an enemy and/or a battle
- extra feature to the basing
- something that will be unusual and catch the judges' attention (and therefore, has to be in GW theme)

in which case...
- I think the kick might have to be out - as much as I like it.
- underarm sweep upwards for a vertical bisection might be out, purely because I don't have the confidence in my sculpting skills for that.
- the backhand sweep for a lateral bisection might have to be the go as it has lots of movement in it and it tells a story (they keep harping on about cinematic gaming. They want cinematic, I'll give 'em cinematic). Is it perhaps a bit less of an obvious choice than the decapitation?
- decapitation might be an option, if I have the Knight standing on a pile of bodies to give the height - because of the shoulder pads, I'm not confident on how high he can raise his arms. That gives me stuff to work with in terms of basing and cinematic look. And dribbly bits flying everywhere.
... I am more fond of the lateral bisection though...

(I don't know why I feel pressured about this, I have plenty of time in which to make a decision...)

 finnan wrote:
... I am more fond of the lateral bisection though...

O.k now you're scaring me!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But yes, I feel this way is the way to go for you if you don't want to attempt too much sculpting, it will still give you the movement and cinematics you want for the project!

and you better hurry up Fin! you ONLY have 12 months left!!!!!

12 months??!!
How will I ever get everything done?!

I do not know Fin, I'll send you some anti persperant for the sweating you're doing with it being so close an' all! :-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You got Skype yet?

 finnan wrote:
I feel a little confused at the moment... and at times like these, I ask myself: What do I want to achieve?
- Grey Knight
- looking cool, strong, in control
- some evidence of an enemy and/or a battle
- extra feature to the basing
- something that will be unusual and catch the judges' attention (and therefore, has to be in GW theme)

Perhaps try a Grey Knight posed at the end of a small battle head held up high admist the bodies of slaughtered daemons at his feet?

I am excited to see which you choose finally.

the problem is the bases Krell - if it's just the Knight by himself, I'm stuck with a 25mm base; if I do for Duel, I can go up to 50mm. Diorama can go up to 300x300mm, but I'm just not confident of my skills in filling that much space - plus the fact that the dioramas tend to be spectacular, so if I went for that category, I think I'd have to go with another concept.

Skype is on my list of Things To Do Nerd ; )

Fascinating. How to win a competition when almost every entry is awesome. I wouldn't have the spleen for it myself. I'm sure whatever you choose will be worth gawping at!

Ohhh there some ideas guys, looking forward to seeing the progress.

Just had a look and overhang is definatly allowed.

If you look at the previous finalists there is some serious overhang on some of the modles.
It also looks like it can be the final throws of a battle/fight, there is one with a skeletons head been blown clean off.

Have a gander, will also it will give you a good idea of what they consider to be a finalist material.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/articleCategory.jsp?communityArticleCatId=3300001&articleCatId=3300001&catId=§ion=community

They have them going back to 2007.

I like where this is going. I like where this is going very much. Please work! Fast!!!

Nice.... nice..... I LOVE IT! Can't wait to see some progress!

If you're looking for a GD, I would recommend against having the GK high-kicking an enemy. You're ascribing agility to a heavy suit of armour in order to create a tenuous link to a six-year-old movie, and that feels gimmicky.

GW wants to promote it's own fluff, particularly for the top winners. Muddying the waters with a pop-culture reference shows you don't have confidence in telling your own story. Tell your original story, and play to the strengths and fluff of the models. Add tension by making the enemy more threatening, rather than a lop-sided battle "eat my foot" roflstomp.

I'd also recommend taking advantage of what makes a GK model unique; the halbard. A two-handed thrust into a demon's chest as it lunges forward shows a battle that can go either way, which increases tension. A two-handed thrust allows you to dynamically pose the grey knight, without playing against the expectations of a heavy suit of armour. The blade of the halbard will be a focal point between the two models, so it can be painted in a bright manner that draws the eye.

Anyways, just suggestions, I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

GD 2009 - duel entries - how could the Silver and Bronze possibly be on a 50mm base?! This is the stuff that annoys me (but it's also possibly my literalism coming into play)

slightly more confused now... I take on board what you're saying about the halberd... trickier to pose with though because of the shoulder pads and arms. Repositioning the hands, while not impossible by any means will make the halberd shaft a lot weaker.
Confusion! >head hurts<

Definitely more complicated, but that's what garners attention and raises the level of an entry; breaking the expected silhouette of an established model.

(I thought I'd done that with the Wraithseer, and look where that got me! lol)

You did, and it was a beautiful model. I think the problem was that you didn't use your tertiary colour effectively. The blue could have been used to counterpoint the orange and black and really made the model as a whole pop with the contrast, but by having it in the blade far above the model the eye was drawn away from the model itself. Besides using a cool colour to contrast the warm orange, you effectively used white to bring the blade forward, while the eye pushes the dark colours into the background.

The human eye is always looking for patterns to bring understanding to what is sees. As beautiful as the build was for your Wraithseer, you need to pull the eye into the mass to appreciate the silhouette as a whole, rather than to an extreme point on the edge.

You've definitely got the technical skill, the next step is understand how to use contrast and colour to focus the viewer's attention so they appreciate the whole model. Your guardians do this very effectively; there's very little contrasting blue, but the eyes and the chest gem form a triangle that very effectively draws the to the upper half of the model.

Hey Finn!

1st: I'm sorry about your luck with the GD. We have a local painter who has won a couple of silvers and a gold and your stuff is as good or better than his. He too says that he refuses to take anything not an Ork or a Space Marine into the competitions. He painted 3 Eldar and 3 nids, including the best Tyrant I've ever seen, and got nothing. He slapped down some ideas for a SM killed an Ork and presto, GD.

2nd: The only critique I agree with on your Eldar was your blending was soooo good, that the model became about your use of Orange and little else. I wasn't a big fan of your seers pose, but i loved it's paint. Also, your other colors could have been more present, like Mastiff said. (Also, I wonder if your blending was unfairly assumed to be airbrushing? )

3rd: Good luck with the GK's. I was thinking of some cool heroic positions myself but there's likely a lot of GS and resculpting that needs to accompany it. I'll upload my sketches later, if you care to see any suggestions? (I dont want to intrude on your project.)

You have some of my favorite Eldar ever. Please do me a favor and in your free time, consider doing a little diorama of a Striking Scorpion and a Incubi fighting back to back, a little token towards the new alliance rules! (Eldar and DE battle brothers indeed!) I think you could do this better than anyone.

I must say, a lot of what Masiff has said makes sense.

I especially agree with the point about adding more drama and tension into the piece.


D

I confess to have felt somewhat stumped and odd for the last few days. I'm not so sure about the Knights now, as the concepts don't really seem strong enough.
I think part of the problem is that I just don't like the models all that much - both the Knights or the Daemons. They just don't do an awful lot for me visually.
It also feels strange to be tailoring my entry like this - I accept that it needs to be done if I'm in with a shot of winning, but it doesn't sit very well... I'm not sure I like the idea of bowing that much to GW sensibilities.
Does that make sense?

I think I could probably do the Knight ideas, and possibly do them justice, but I'm not so sure that my heart would be in it.

I don't think I'm being terribly coherent here... and I'm struggling somewhat to stay positive and take everyone's suggestions on board AND do something that I like and will enjoy AND that will tick the GW GD boxes AND that's good enough to win AND push myself further.
I was looking this afternoon at the GW site, at the 40k armies, and literally nothing caught my eye other than one of the Necron figures (and that was Finecast - boo, hiss); all of the marines left me cold.

So I feel kinda stuck.
I've got bitz coming so I can have a go at the battle wizard, but I suspect that that might just be a bit of fun rather than a GD entry... but having said that, I don't know. It's not as if the wizards are a new product to be revered, so I doubt he'd be current enough to warrant enough attention.

/grump

At the end of the day you need to do something that your happy with and not pander to the latest GW trend.

No point doing something if you don't enjoy it is what I say. Winning a GD is a bonus, I think the best part would be the experience of bringing your concept together and to accomplish that goal for yourself.

Besides its not just GD there are tons of other painting contests , Wamp as one nearly every month from different companys.

Perhaps a conversion is in order? You could always go down custom guard character/inquisitor route. Xenos inqusitor vs an eldar perhaps?...

I've always like this image, which might inspire you a little...



D

 finnan wrote:
I confess to have felt somewhat stumped and odd for the last few days. I'm not so sure about the Knights now, as the concepts don't really seem strong enough.
I think part of the problem is that I just don't like the models all that much - both the Knights or the Daemons. They just don't do an awful lot for me visually.
It also feels strange to be tailoring my entry like this - I accept that it needs to be done if I'm in with a shot of winning, but it doesn't sit very well... I'm not sure I like the idea of bowing that much to GW sensibilities.
Does that make sense?

I think I could probably do the Knight ideas, and possibly do them justice, but I'm not so sure that my heart would be in it.

I don't think I'm being terribly coherent here... and I'm struggling somewhat to stay positive and take everyone's suggestions on board AND do something that I like and will enjoy AND that will tick the GW GD boxes AND that's good enough to win AND push myself further.
I was looking this afternoon at the GW site, at the 40k armies, and literally nothing caught my eye other than one of the Necron figures (and that was Finecast - boo, hiss); all of the marines left me cold.

So I feel kinda stuck.
I've got bitz coming so I can have a go at the battle wizard, but I suspect that that might just be a bit of fun rather than a GD entry... but having said that, I don't know. It's not as if the wizards are a new product to be revered, so I doubt he'd be current enough to warrant enough attention.

/grump

I think you're being very coherent. I think you're conflicted in your objective. On one hand you want to follow your own eye and build/paint what you want. On the other hand you are really looking for that GD. I think you need to make a decision: Either you step away from the GD and do what you want or you look at the GD as a job, a client.

I haven't been involved in this whole hobby for very long. I've followed this thread for a while, though, and I'd say that it sounds like GW chooses winner based on their asthetic. I think the only way you'll win is to bring more of that asthetic into your work. Think of them as a client and the GD as a review. You want to push the envelope, but that seldom works in client reviews. Clients like something different, but not too different (it shakes their self-esteem). They want to have their tastes and preferences reinforced, not questioned.

That said, I think you have a fantastic eye for how to push these little plastic army men beyond what everyone's done before. I haven't seen the same ideas anywhere else on this forum and there is a ton of awesome work out there. Personally, my opinion is that you should concentrate on your style and not worry about the GD. It seems like this past contest has shaken your confidence and it shouldn't. You're an artist. Trying to win this contest, with it's apparently strict rules, is going to be frustrating for you. You listed all the things you are trying to accomplish in your post and I just don't know that you can or that it's worth it. I think you have to pick - either do something for yourself or do something for the GD. From your sketches and skills you've shown in this forum, (if you could convert the figures) I think that you could have a stunning piece for the GD.

No matter what, keep doing what you like doing - even if it means that you're doing the GD on the side.

Space Wolves can often be the answer.

They're Marines, so in the favoured corner, but a lot more interesting, especially in their characters, with all the iconography, necklaces, pelts, etc.

I mean, at the end of the day I don't like Marines but I'm... OK with Space Wolves (especially some of the silly character combinations you can do... 8 Special Characters in 1 list anyone? )

 mars2024 wrote:

I think you're being very coherent. I think you're conflicted in your objective. On one hand you want to follow your own eye and build/paint what you want. On the other hand you are really looking for that GD. I think you need to make a decision: Either you step away from the GD and do what you want or you look at the GD as a job, a client.

Hey, I was just about to write about the GD as a client!

I've been a designer all my life, and occasionally an artist. I define "art" as something you produce for yourself; "design" is producing for someone else. If you're looking to win the contest, you are already producing an entry to specifications other than your own. The contest is the client, not you. An art piece can still win an award, but the chances are reduced because you need judges in line with your own way of thinking. I entered a GD years ago, and when I did, I had a checklist of things I thought the model needed to achieve in order to have a chance at winning. But the first thing I did was choose a model that I absolutely loved; it made all the other steps easier to accomplish.

If you're not excited by any models, then you're already moving away from art into design. It'll be purely a technical enterprise, rather than trying to emphasize and enhance the aspects of a model that speaks to you.

I'd suggest putting GDs on hold until you find a model that really excites you. You might even move away from GW for a bit, and try other miniatures to see what they can offer. It's a great way to stretch your boundaries and try other aesthetics, and learn what makes you happy.