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 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:


As for the only 25% mortality rate... 3 people are dead atm and no one has shown signs of recovery.. looks like a 100% mortality rate to me for now.

just because it's killed 3 people so far doesn't in any way make it a 100% mortality rate. If anything several of the people that are infected have survived longer than patient 0 which is a good indicator that they'll survive the disease

How many people have died so far from the infection: 3
How many people are infected: ~20-30
How many people have succesfully recovered from the infection: 0

So as it stands The rate is calculated from the number of people who have died and the number of people who have survived

3 dead + 0 recovered = 3 total

3 dead / 3 total = 100%

so 100% mortality rate ATM, now this could change but as it stands, you get it you die.

now if the remaining 20-30 all recover then the mortality rate becomes something between the following

3/23 = 13.04%
3/33 = 9.09%

but at the moment, its 100%.

But as for being at a prison.. i'd personally want to sleep in one of the unexploded guard towers since i would never have to worry about a Zed climbing a ladder.

At the time they died they had already lived with the disease longer than the boy. Only two people had died and we don't know anything about their immune systems. Murdering people who had already been isolated is plain stupid. It doesn't matter how you cut it.

I could support her decision if the following had happened:

An event that happened only to the two murdered people and the kid and dude that were sick.

Those 4 people hadn't spet all day around people in the yard or around the food that everyone ate.

Everyone and their grandma hadn't been in the cell block with no ventilation with the infected people.

None of these things happened. The disease had zero chance of being put back in the bottle. And anybody who knows a single thing about disease is that generally by the time symptoms show you've already been contagious.

So why is it in anyway a good idea to kill two people who are locked up and isolate? Let alone the risk of personal contamination....

Just remember folks, if the Zombie games start and you start sneezing, better start running, because Frazzled is coming with a killj and a gallon of gas...

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

cadbren wrote:


Next question would be how many people during a zombie apocalypse would leave a cell door open if they had the chance to go to sleep with steel bars to protect them?

Because they could feel like they were being held prisoner, in general (Before the outbreak) they felt pretty safe inside the walls of the prison

That tends to be how people die have died so far. They let their guard down thinking they're safe. I guess given that it was D block that the people from Woodbury are less aware of the dangers having had a secure town for so long.

cadbren wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

cadbren wrote:


Next question would be how many people during a zombie apocalypse would leave a cell door open if they had the chance to go to sleep with steel bars to protect them?

Because they could feel like they were being held prisoner, in general (Before the outbreak) they felt pretty safe inside the walls of the prison

That tends to be how people die have died so far. They let their guard down thinking they're safe. I guess given that it was D block that the people from Woodbury are less aware of the dangers having had a secure town for so long.

And why exactly did they move from the town again???

Costs more to rent out a town than a discussed prison - in universe not really sure.

 Frazzled wrote:


And why exactly did they move from the town again???

Walls were falling apart, walls are to large for their original group (prison pop + woodbury pop) to defend. The GOVAHNA knows it in and out so its not that great of a place to defend agianst him. Concrete walls>>>>>>>>>>> truck with tires stuffed under it.

The real question is, Why didn't they take everything from woodsbury to reinforce the prison Fence.

 Frazzled wrote:

cadbren wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

cadbren wrote:


Next question would be how many people during a zombie apocalypse would leave a cell door open if they had the chance to go to sleep with steel bars to protect them?

Because they could feel like they were being held prisoner, in general (Before the outbreak) they felt pretty safe inside the walls of the prison

That tends to be how people die have died so far. They let their guard down thinking they're safe. I guess given that it was D block that the people from Woodbury are less aware of the dangers having had a secure town for so long.

And why exactly did they move from the town again???

Because the prison was safer and had better facilities. The town only had a doctor's surgery whereas the prison had depleted first aid supplies. The town had running water but the prison has access to water via a pump situated outside the gates. The town had access to garden food while the prison has good supplies of canned goods and whatever can be grown in the yard that is soaked in zombie blood. The town had houses with comfortable beds though the prison has hard bunks with old mattresses, hard floors and dark walls though you can shut the doors at night and pretend you're in 15 to life.
Actually I think there is a valid reason to have left. With most of the town militia dead thanks to the governor, there probably weren't enough people to keep the walkers away from the perimeter of the town. I think the prison actually has better static defences than Woodbury but they should be using that place to gather supplies from unless that's where they went when Carol was given the push.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, ninja ninja'd me on the lack of wall people.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


And why exactly did they move from the town again???

Walls were falling apart, walls are to large for their original group (prison pop + woodbury pop) to defend. The GOVAHNA knows it in and out so its not that great of a place to defend agianst him. Concrete walls>>>>>>>>>>> truck with tires stuffed under it.

The real question is, Why didn't they take everything from woodsbury to reinforce the prison Fence.

The walls in the prison are dodgy, the walls in Woodbury seemed to be adequate enough even with the fairly pathetic guards they had. They had a system in place that kept the walkers away - drawing them to a dispoal area - but apparently the newcomers had better ideas - and thats why they are now stuck in the prison fighting off the hordes. The see through fences draw walkers as they can see their prey.

The prison is an extremely unhealthy place and depressing place to live in.The town had running water, real houses - and somewhere that promotes civilisation - rather than sticking people in unlit and unheated cages that make them fee like rats in raps - especially those who until recently slept safely in their own homes and beds.

The Goverenor could equally sneak into the Prison - its not like its been shown to be hard to do.

The prison made sense in the comic as they had nothing better - the TV show likely only makes sense from a budegtary / plot device POV - I guess they thought if they make it too comfortable as it would have been in Woodbury then the drama may be reduced...........

What happend to Woodbury in the comic?

We don't know - most of the Govenors men and women were killed at the prison with him as were most of Ricks crew - some were driven into the prison by Zombies and may well have surived.

As far as we know is still going under a new ruler but also may have been overwhelmed.

I have to say that I found Rick's actions fairly pragmatic. By "banishing" Carol he avoided the inevitable showdown at the prison between Tyreese and Carol, which was likely to also involve Daryl and was almost certain to end in one or more deaths. It's also not as if he put a gun to her head and made her leave, she seemed pretty accepting of it - as if she knew it was the best thing for everybody.
Plus she was getting really creepy.*


*And also was going to interfere in the upcoming chocolate-vanilla swirl.

cadbren wrote:
The town had running water but the prison has access to water via a pump situated outside the gates.

Seems like there have been shots/scenes involving water in every episode this season. Are they leading us somewhere with that, is it a symbolic/thematic thing, or is it just a red herring?

 Lint wrote:
*And also was going to interfere in the upcoming chocolate-vanilla swirl.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Besides, I think they make a cuter couple.

I want to know why the Prison's fences are bending to the weight of 30 zombies. Some one must of cut huge corners when they built the dam place.

@Mr. Morden

the Day after Rick and Friends staged the rescue in woodbury there were zombies inside of Woodbury, they came in through holes in the wall. The walls are falling apart and thats the main reason the Gov-nah wanted to get the prison. For maintaining the wall, back when woodbury had 20-30 ish people they kept on the walls at all times it was fine, After the rescue and Gov-nah shooting everyone Woodbury only had 3 able bodied people Tyreese, that girl he was with and that hispanic lady that surivived the shooting. Everyone else was old or a child.

if they stayed at woodbury it would of been, Rick, glenn, maggie, tyreese, daryl, carl, Tyreese's friend, hispanic lady as the only people watching all of the towns walls. instead of having those people watch the 200yrds of chainlink fence at the prison.

Just be thankful those zombies didn't watch World War Z or they'd know how to easily get past those walls.

The main selling point of the prison was the double chain link fence which besides being a double wall allowed for good visibility and allowed you to walk between it and stab zombies in the face. It's the perfect setup but that hasn't really been explained in the show.

Also, the prison had supplies of guns, ammo, armour, canned food, medicine and an infirmary. It's basically a zombie apocalypse jackpot but they has also not been explained in the show because....Andrea is sleeping with the Govenor or something.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
I want to know why the Prison's fences are bending to the weight of 30 zombies. Some one must of cut huge corners when they built the dam place.

@Mr. Morden

the Day after Rick and Friends staged the rescue in woodbury there were zombies inside of Woodbury, they came in through holes in the wall. The walls are falling apart and thats the main reason the Gov-nah wanted to get the prison. For maintaining the wall, back when woodbury had 20-30 ish people they kept on the walls at all times it was fine, After the rescue and Gov-nah shooting everyone Woodbury only had 3 able bodied people Tyreese, that girl he was with and that hispanic lady that surivived the shooting. Everyone else was old or a child.

if they stayed at woodbury it would of been, Rick, glenn, maggie, tyreese, daryl, carl, Tyreese's friend, hispanic lady as the only people watching all of the towns walls. instead of having those people watch the 200yrds of chainlink fence at the prison.

Woodbury had no major issues as long as they followed the plan - lure the Zombies to the fire pit and and keep them away from town - it all went wrong when the war began and they lost more competant members of their defence team. If Rick and co had re-implemented the same methods - they would have been fine - remember at one point the wall is defended by a single girl with a bow and arrow and she is pretty ineffective to Andrea's disgust. Occasional mopping up patrols would have worked in conjunction with the lure and burn procedure. The wall defences are enhanced to deal with Ricks attack and its aftermath.... not IIRC in repsonse to Zombies which most of the people seldom worry about, in short everything was fine until the interactions between the two groups began.

The prison is a horrible place to try and live in - if it was safer maybe it would work - or if they used the admin block rather than the cells - but we also know there are breaches that they have to keep an eye on and the Zombies seem to keep massing at the dodgy looking fence with all the holes they keep making in it ............. If the remaining suvivors had built on the basis of the Gov-nah's flawed but effective plans they would be in a much better position - but that would not work as well for the plot......................same with the "lets shoot all my people" bit did not work for me at all - bit of a cop out to keep the plot going.

Lastly I am not suprised that people got sick if they are drinking marsh water in an area where they keep killing Zombies.............again there were no apparent water problems in the town.

 Frazzled wrote:
What happend to Woodbury in the comic?

Now that I think back Rick's group didn't really win the war with Woodbury. It was more of a Pyrrhic victory for Woodbury. That being said Woodbury is more of a hellhole in the comic. There were no family bbqs for example. It was more like zombie thunderdome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:
I want to know why the Prison's fences are bending to the weight of 30 zombies. Some one must of cut huge corners when they built the dam place.

@Mr. Morden

the Day after Rick and Friends staged the rescue in woodbury there were zombies inside of Woodbury, they came in through holes in the wall. The walls are falling apart and thats the main reason the Gov-nah wanted to get the prison. For maintaining the wall, back when woodbury had 20-30 ish people they kept on the walls at all times it was fine, After the rescue and Gov-nah shooting everyone Woodbury only had 3 able bodied people Tyreese, that girl he was with and that hispanic lady that surivived the shooting. Everyone else was old or a child.

if they stayed at woodbury it would of been, Rick, glenn, maggie, tyreese, daryl, carl, Tyreese's friend, hispanic lady as the only people watching all of the towns walls. instead of having those people watch the 200yrds of chainlink fence at the prison.

Woodbury had no major issues as long as they followed the plan - lure the Zombies to the fire pit and and keep them away from town - it all went wrong when the war began and they lost more competant members of their defence team. If Rick and co had re-implemented the same methods - they would have been fine - remember at one point the wall is defended by a single girl with a bow and arrow and she is pretty ineffective to Andrea's disgust. Occasional mopping up patrols would have worked in conjunction with the lure and burn procedure. The wall defences are enhanced to deal with Ricks attack and its aftermath.... not IIRC in repsonse to Zombies which most of the people seldom worry about, in short everything was fine until the interactions between the two groups began.

The prison is a horrible place to try and live in - if it was safer maybe it would work - or if they used the admin block rather than the cells - but we also know there are breaches that they have to keep an eye on and the Zombies seem to keep massing at the dodgy looking fence with all the holes they keep making in it ............. If the remaining suvivors had built on the basis of the Gov-nah's flawed but effective plans they would be in a much better position - but that would not work as well for the plot......................same with the "lets shoot all my people" bit did not work for me at all - bit of a cop out to keep the plot going.

Lastly I am not suprised that people got sick if they are drinking marsh water in an area where they keep killing Zombies.............again there were no apparent water problems in the town.

Yes, basically in the show everything was fine in the Woodbury until Rick showed up but it was still The Governor's marauding ways that led to it's downfall. All his problems were a consequence of his "foreign policy" if you will.

Agreed - which is why a less insane leadership would be even better and maintain a decent living area rather than a horrible prison.

Of course in the same season Rick pretty much went Insane in the show (again the comic has it much more gradual and more intense) and may do so again.

The downfall of Woodbury was not even really the Governors policies but that fact he lost to a group that was far more effective - if he had actually slaughtered the Prison survivors or Michilone had died earlier- he and the town would have likely carried on as before. He may have grown increasingly insane or just been a bit odd (and very dangerous at times) to his group.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Woodbury had no major issues as long as they followed the plan - lure the Zombies to the fire pit and and keep them away from town - it all went wrong when the war began and they lost more competant members of their defence team. If Rick and co had re-implemented the same methods - they would have been fine - remember at one point the wall is defended by a single girl with a bow and arrow and she is pretty ineffective to Andrea's disgust. Occasional mopping up patrols would have worked in conjunction with the lure and burn procedure. The wall defences are enhanced to deal with Ricks attack and its aftermath.... not IIRC in repsonse to Zombies which most of the people seldom worry about, in short everything was fine until the interactions between the two groups began.

The prison is a horrible place to try and live in - if it was safer maybe it would work - or if they used the admin block rather than the cells - but we also know there are breaches that they have to keep an eye on and the Zombies seem to keep massing at the dodgy looking fence with all the holes they keep making in it ............. If the remaining suvivors had built on the basis of the Gov-nah's flawed but effective plans they would be in a much better position - but that would not work as well for the plot......................same with the "lets shoot all my people" bit did not work for me at all - bit of a cop out to keep the plot going.

Lastly I am not suprised that people got sick if they are drinking marsh water in an area where they keep killing Zombies.............again there were no apparent water problems in the town.

Woodbury's wall went around the entire town, they only had one girl with a bow defending the front gate, the zombies that came through the wall came through another section of it. The pit lure only worked because they had people outside of the wall that could draw them to it, they imposed curfew at night so that people weren;t outside making noise allowing for a minimal force to be kept on all of the walls around the city. During the day they had people outside of the walls but could actually see which way zeds were coming from so it really didn't matter if the people made noise or not. The only Breach in the prison is the 10 portion of a brick wall that knocked over, seeing that zombies are no longer inside of the facility (from outside of the prison not super flu) they probably fixed that a while ago.

the Zombies seem to keep massing at the dodgy looking fence with all the holes they keep making in it

Thats because someone is feeding them, in the scene where the zombies are bending the fence maggie/rick notice that there are butchered rats in a pile on their side of the gate

 Frazzled wrote:

cadbren wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

cadbren wrote:


Next question would be how many people during a zombie apocalypse would leave a cell door open if they had the chance to go to sleep with steel bars to protect them?

Because they could feel like they were being held prisoner, in general (Before the outbreak) they felt pretty safe inside the walls of the prison

That tends to be how people die have died so far. They let their guard down thinking they're safe. I guess given that it was D block that the people from Woodbury are less aware of the dangers having had a secure town for so long.

And why exactly did they move from the town again???

Because the Governor ran it cohesively and the Rictatorship could not?

Well I think Carol has been vindicated.

You think ol' one eye was the one feeding the walkers or has he just arrived?

cadbren wrote:
Well I think Carol has been vindicated.

How so?

You think ol' one eye was the one feeding the walkers or has he just arrived?

Certainly seems that way...

Yeah, not sure how Carol was vindicated.....If anything the fact that some people lasted a long time feeling the effects should show she probably shouldn't have killed the first two so fast.....

As for the govenor I could see it. Sneak in, feed walkers at the gate, sneak out. Find walkers and lead them toward the prison. If he hasn't killed hiw two buddies yet it's totally doable.

Oh, and Rick and Carl rocked it hard this episode. But no one rocked it as hard as Herschel. Overall, really enjoyed this episode.

I think Carl is shaping up to be one of my favourite characters now, along with Rick and Daryl.

Carl's definitely becoming a hardened survivor, just like his comic counterpart, which is a interesting contrast to Rick.

When Rick was driving back to the prison sans Carol; and when Rick and Carl go out to fight off the Walker herd that breached the fence, you can see how unnerved and unstable Rick is. Hes doubting himself and has become fearful of his own brutality (the Governor-like Ricktatorship period that he went through).

Carl's become a source of strength for Rick. Carl sees the stress that Ricks going through, and is stepping up to give him the support he needs.

That scene when the two of them fight off the Walker herd is one of my favourite in the series so far.

Rick is one of my favourite characters because of the sacrifices hes had to make to be an effective leader and to keep his people safe, to the point that its affecting his sanity.

Carls a favourite because of how fast he's being forced to grow up, and how hes acting as a source of strength for his father.

And Daryls a favourite because of how much hes grown as a character, from a scornful outsider with a bad attitude to a full member of the group willing to risk his lives for his friends.

Okay vindicated is the wrong word, but her actions appear more justified now. Those two would not have survived. There was limited help available for the infected and those infected early on went first so they would have died.

The only person we know who was actually saved by Hershey was Glen, but it was Daryl and co showing up with the meds that stopped more deaths. Unless the meds do nothing and they all die of course.

What happens if Daryl goes after her and finds her chewed remains walking around?

Also, do you think the season will end with the herd arriving at the prison?

cadbren wrote:
Okay vindicated is the wrong word, but her actions appear more justified now. Those two would not have survived. There was limited help available for the infected and those infected early on went first so they would have died.

No... just no. Unless you can peer into the future, you don't get to decide who lives or dies.

What happens if Daryl goes after her and finds her chewed remains walking around?

That what makes this a compelling series...eh?

Also, do you think the season will end with the herd arriving at the prison?

Yup.

Anyone knows what was the song that kept playing during this episode?

I think it's Lizzy that feeds the walkers; she likes to name them after all....

I have a theory about Lizzie (the girl with the unhealthy fondness for Walkers) and her younger sister Mika, and the similarity of character arcs in the show and comics.

In the comics, there were two twins, Ben and Billy, whose father Allen died at the prison.

.

This is probably very obvious to anyone whos read the comics, but Lizzie clearly resembles Ben.



Theres also a lot of points of similarity in other character arcs. The showrunners might have cut certain characters from the comics, and drastically changed others, but they're clearly taking lots of character arcs and storylines and applying them to other characters.



I think they're going to roll some elements of Negan's character arc into the Governor.



I also think the Governor is going to attack the Prison a second time.




Edit:...

New theory on the Prison redux.