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Nice theory with the siblings and how they could tie Negan and the Governor together. I was thinking already that tv Woodbury had elements of that Government site in Washington, that got overrun too at one point after a gun battle with a local gang.
Has Daryl replaced Andrea from the comic version as the go to fighter type?

While it's possible Hershel could suffer comic Glen's fate, I think it also possible that he could end up like comic Dale.

@Edithae I was thinking the same thing about Lizzie. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened and Carl deals with it in the same way.

Jeez


Can we get back to a season of dealing with zombie hordes already?

Some fans of the comic -- which is much farther down the timeline -- have been complaining about a lack of zombie fighting at that stage of the story also. That seems like it's about to change, but ultimately I think that human interaction and adversaries are just a lot more interesting to the writers than wall-to-wall killing of nameless zombies.

Notice how no one here at all was excited about that last scene with the Govenor. Just Frazzled saying its lame.

Because Frazzled speaks truth!

 Frazzled wrote:
Because Frazzled speaks truth!

When it comes the Zombie Apocalypse: yes.

Things are heating up in the comic again for sure. Interactions are one thing, but the idea of being surrounded by hordes of impacable zombies is I think the real reason people keep going back for more, otherwise it's Days of Our Lives: Apocalypse Edition.


I don't recall if anything has been said about herds yet, but in the comic it's stated that zombies will be attracted to other zombies and they'll form groups (as we've seen in the show lots of times).

How was it then that Michonne's two walkers were able to act as camouflage for her if zombies attract others. She should have attracted lots of them simply by moving forwards. I realise she could have attacked them with her sword, at least when she was awake, but what about at night when she slept? Two zombies is no screen from any others, she would have been found.

cadbren wrote:
Things are heating up in the comic again for sure. Interactions are one thing, but the idea of being surrounded by hordes of impacable zombies is I think the real reason people keep going back for more, otherwise it's Days of Our Lives: Apocalypse Edition.


I don't recall if anything has been said about herds yet, but in the comic it's stated that zombies will be attracted to other zombies and they'll form groups (as we've seen in the show lots of times).

How was it then that Michonne's two walkers were able to act as camouflage for her if zombies attract others. She should have attracted lots of them simply by moving forwards. I realise she could have attacked them with her sword, at least when she was awake, but what about at night when she slept? Two zombies is no screen from any others, she would have been found.

They mask her scent. Other zombies could not detect she was one of the living. Zombies are attracted to sound so the naturally pool together. Don't make noise and the zombies wont be attracted to you.

Yes, but if zombies attract others then she'd find herself inside a large group. Early in the series (tv or comic or both?) Rick and some others cover themselves in zombie muck to hide their sent until it rained and exposed them. I don't believe two zombies would be enough to protect you from discovery if you're surrounded.
Even if that worked, you're asleep and a zombie trips over you. Suddenly it's on top of you and it realises you're food. There's a big hole in that part of the story.

cadbren wrote:


How was it then that Michonne's two walkers were able to act as camouflage for her if zombies attract others. She should have attracted lots of them simply by moving forwards. I realise she could have attacked them with her sword, at least when she was awake, but what about at night when she slept? Two zombies is no screen from any others, she would have been found.

The two zombies she had became docile, they stood there and made no noise so they never drew other zombies to the area. When zombies are attacking something they are banging agianst something and that draws other zombies to that point and bang on area making more noise, this draws more and more zombies to the area. Now they are also attracted smell and while this only ever comes up once in the TV show, it has remained part of it. whether or not zombies can see remains to be seen , I think that their hearing is basically peak human as they no longer see/smell that great.

also, Rick has moved up as a character but is still down in a hole.

 Frazzled wrote:
Jeez

Spoiler:

The Governor again? Come on thats so boring!!! Move on people. How is he surviving by himself? Shouldn't he be more focused on maintaining respiration now?

1) Hes a sadistic psychopathic that can handle himself well in violent situations
2) Hes not alone. He has at least two violent and (apparently) loyal henchmen, and knowing his charisma and personality, I can easily see him gathering together a gang of like minded psychopaths and scavengers (much like Negan in the comics) and using them to terrorise the Prison population.
3) He survives by wiping out other groups of survivors and scavenging their supplies.

And I disagree that hes boring. If anything, hes one of the most interesting characters of the entire series. He serves as a warning and a foreshadowing for several other characters. He represents loss and despair - hes a man who's lost everything, his family, friends, respect, humanity, compassion and even his sanity. He is what other characters like Rick and Carl could become, if they lose everything and give in to despair. Through Season 4 Rick has been rattled and disturbed by his own actions, and worries that he could end up like the Governor (hence his desire to just be a farmer, and his reluctance to take part in any violence). Carl is also becoming a hardened, cynical survivor and Rick fears that Carl might become as brutal as the Governor (similarly, in the comics comparisons are drawn between Carl and Negan).

 gorgon wrote:
Some fans of the comic -- which is much farther down the timeline -- have been complaining about a lack of zombie fighting at that stage of the story also. That seems like it's about to change, but ultimately I think that human interaction and adversaries are just a lot more interesting to the writers than wall-to-wall killing of nameless zombies.

I agree. The zombie apocalypse is just a setting and a context. Zombies are mindless, and so they have zero motivations, desires and agendas, so the possiblity for interesting characterisation is extremely limited. All they want to do is eat. If its all about the zombies, and they're the only threat then that becomes quite boring. Killing endless hordes of zombies is fine for a video game like Dead Rising, but terrible for a character driven show like TWD.

cadbren wrote:
There's a big hole in that part of the story.

You're trying to rationalise Zombies?

This entire thread is about rationalising a zombie apocalyse and the zombies are are a pretty important part of that.

How they actually function is important to understanding the actions and thence motives of the survivors. Their survival hinges on having a full understanding of how zombies behave and what their capabilities are.

Is the governor using zombies as shields like Michonne to get close to the prison and attract zombies to weak points in the fence? If he is, wouldn't he just unhook the parts of the fence that Rick and co use and let them in?
Still lots of blanks around him and his plans for the prison.

If zombies are that good at hiding the smell of the living then why not stake a bunch of them around the prison to ward off any from the fence?

my predictions and theories on next ep.

I don't think the Governor has been watching the Prison for a long time. I think he's been elsewhere for the previous 5 episodes, exorcising (or summoning) his demons, gathering supplies and weapons, recruiting new followers, killing people who refuse to join him or who he doesn't have a use for.

The promo shows him standing by a burning building. I think he will possibly torch the abandoned Woodbury in a fit of rage.

Michonne stated that she looked everywhere for him, but the trail went cold according to Daryl. If hes been lurking close to the prison this whole time, I think someone would have spotted him.

I think this next Ep will show flashbacks, whats happened to him since season 3, where hes been and what hes doing. When hes seen at the end of Ep 5, I think that was the first time hes returned to the Prison. If he'd been watching all along, he'd have known that after the disease outbreak the prison was extremely vulnerable with just a couple of fighters left standing. Rick, Maggie and Carl. So he would have probably attacked. I don't think he knew just how vulnerable they were.

Ep 5 will end with him capturing someone, possibly Hershel (whos going out with Michonne to burn corpses). Michonne will probably escape, as she did in the comics. Maybe Hershel will be beheaded with her katana.

The rats luring walkers to the fence is probably an inside person, most likely Lizzy as she has an affectionate obsession with walkers. She was probably feeding them out of "kindness" than trying to get everyone killed.


And if the Governor meets up with Carol, she might feel betrayed enough over being exiled by Rick to side with the Governor, helping him attack the prisons weak points. Her motivation might be to take back Micah and Lizzy who she sort of "adopted". She considers herself their guardian, and might feel she can protect them better than Rick.

Alternatively, she might follow comic Andrea's role, and will return to the prison in the midst of a crisis (Governor attack?) to save the survivors. At which point they may take her back. I hope so, because I was hoping for a female character following Andrea's comic arc and thought it was going to be Carol.

Or she might just be gone for good.

So can we be done with the complaints that they aren't using Woodbury now?

A good episode, we get a look at The Governor 2: Electric Boogaloo.

They did a great job on his reboot story,




JAZZ HANDS!

This show is so much better when it focuses on one character or a small group instead of jump-cutting all over the place.

A lot of setup this week, looking forward to the payoff next week, then after that there's the midseason finale where I guess there will be some kind of prison/ governor stuff

I'm liking the governor's character a lot more this season, just seems to be better written.

Holy crap, I did not expect the direction this episode has taken. I didn't think it possible but this episode actually made the Governor into a sympathetic character. I'd hate for him to be killed off now.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Holy crap, I did not expect the direction this episode has taken. I didn't think it possible but this episode actually made the Governor into a sympathetic character. I'd hate for him to be killed off now.

That would be putting it rather strongly, I think. He's still the psychopath who tortured and killed people when he wasn't sitting around looking at heads in jars.

A well written episode that made up for the lack of zombie butchery with good storytelling. Definitely looking forward to the next one.

Lack of zombie butchery? Those last 4 zombie kills were the most gruesome yet!

You know, this was actually one of my most liked episodes in a long time of this show. Not saying I dislike the rest of the episodes, but I just enjoy somewhat more of a simplicity of a man in the zombie world and his character. Reminds me of the first episode with Rick waking in a hospital. Had some beautiful scenes too like the burning of Woodbury.

In fact, now that I think about it this whole episode feels like a correlation to Rick's first episode.

That's true. I wonder what the spin-off will focus on.

Very good episode this one, transforms the governor back into a human not a monster... all because of a little girl that brings him some semblance of what he lost during the incident.

The real question becomes how do you come back from where he's been? He'd never be allowed in the prison, and it's the only safe place he could take those women...

I'm loving this spin off, and I'm wondering what becomes of it now that he's found by some that were witness to his treachery.

Is this current "spin-off" of the Gov in any way similar to the comics? Or are they radically different now?

Well, he's radically different in that he's alive at this point versus being shot in the head already.

From the beginning, I think they're tried to make the TV Gov a more sympathetic character. But again, I really don't see how saving a few people balances his books.

I think we've all got sick of watching the regulars do pretty much nothing except get water and tend the sick. This has put some life back into the show but the zeds are still lacking, bring on the herd already!

Going back a couple episodes....coming late to the apocalypse. ..

Instead of allowing the walkers to push their way through the fence...why not take a few ounces of gas, sprinkle/spray it over them...and have a nice bonfire?

Its not like it would have damaged the metal chain link fence worse than the walkers did busting through it.

THen you'd have walking bonfires... which is baaaaaaaad.

That's how forest fires starts.

Didn't Smokey the Bear teach you that?

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Going back a couple episodes....coming late to the apocalypse. ..

Instead of allowing the walkers to push their way through the fence...why not take a few ounces of gas, sprinkle/spray it over them...and have a nice bonfire?

Its not like it would have damaged the metal chain link fence worse than the walkers did busting through it.

The heat might weaken the fence, bending and warping the chain links, leaving it more vulnerable to future attacks. It would be a waste of valuable fuel, and may not even work very well. The walkers in the Woodbury pit that Milton were still 'alive', and that was after being literally drenched with fuel and burned in a tight confined area. The walkers at the prison fence aren't in a confined area, and a little bit of gas won't do much. Their clothes and skin might be seared away, but I think most of them would still be mobile enough to pose a threat to the fence.