Walking Dead TV Show **Spoilers** (comic talk only in spoiler tags)

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**cadbren**

In the comic, Dale gets bit. He's already lost his lower leg after being bitten while at the prison (Hershel is the stand in for this part in the show). He leaves the group to die and gets captured by the cannibal people. I think they took his other leg then dumped him where Rick and co would find him.

I don't see Daryl being bit and done away with like that. He's more likely to be torn apart by a large group if he is to die at all or maybe killed by other survivors.
I think the alcoholic black guy is a more likely candidate for being eaten and then eaten.
They are trying for a different plot, but cannibalism would be likely given that most people don't know how to hunt or trap or even farm. It would be easy to befriend someone and then use them for food, especially if you were starving.

I'm hoping they'll introduce something completely different to the comic like they did with the family the governor finds.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Well, the show has been criticised for killing too many expendable and insignificant redshirts and not having enough deaths with a significant impact (Hershel being the most significant death since Andrea). I think Bob would fall under the expendable Redshirt category. If the showrunners wanted to have a more impactful death then Daryl would be more appropriate.

And that family that the Governor meets was not altogether original. They're based heavily on characters from the Fall of the Governor novel series (the Chalmer family - April, Tara and their father David). Megan was the only original character. In the novels, the Governor meets them before Woodbury, though he was going by his real name Brian Blake at the time. His older, stronger brother Philip Blake is the one who has a relationship with April (Lilly) though he ends up raping her, and Tara responds by throwing the Blake brothers, Penny and Nick (Philip's friend) out of the apartment.

For the show, April Chalmers was merged with the character Lilly Caul. Lilly is the one who kills the Governor in the books and comics (the books are part of the comic canon). Lilly comes to Woodbury, loses her boyfriend Josh Lee Hamilton when hes murdered by a thug demanding their supplies. Later, after the Governor takes control, sickend by his brutality she participates in an attempted coup (along with Ceasar Martinez) but fails, and resents him from then on. Then she kills Lori and Judith during the Woodbury army's attack on the Prison, and shamed by this she kills the Governor.

So Lilly Chambler and her family are not original characters. Lilly is a portmanteau of two characters from the comics and books. They just merged the two character arcs together, and altered the timeline.

**TheMeanDM**

As soon as he grabbed Herschel I knew he was done...regardless of what was said. Fans just liked him too much and it was the "best" way to affect an emotional response from them.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but...I don't recall seeing Tyreese or Daryl running off so it wouldn't surprise me if Little Ass Kicker is with one of them.

**gorgon**

Things do look to be "back on track," at least in a general way. As always, I'm sure there will be differences from the comic. But I think it's important to remember that no matter how much they talk about things being different from the comic, Kirkman is in all those meetings. While he's probably having fun making changes to the comic storyline, it's still his baby, and I doubt he's in there telling them to throw it all out. Ultimately, the story's a good one and they won't be inclined to do something wildly different.

I was glad that they wrapped up the battle in this episode rather than saving the important parts for February.

And godspeed Herschel. It was funny how emotional things got on the Talking Dead about the character's death. Seemed overdone (I mean, Scott Wilson's still alive, folks), but obviously Wilson was loved by his castmates.

TheMeanDM wrote:
As soon as he grabbed Herschel I knew he was done...regardless of what was said. Fans just liked him too much and it was the "best" way to affect an emotional response from them.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but...I don't recall seeing Tyreese or Daryl running off so it wouldn't surprise me if Little Ass Kicker is with one of them.

She's probably with Daryl just to make the female viewership swoon even more.

Edit: Oh, so regarding the earlier gasoline discussion -- ethanol fuels definitely break down and can cause engine fouling. I had a new snowblower that needed a carb replacement after just one offseason, and that was WITH gas that had been treated with fuel stabilizer. Since then, I always run my small engines dry before storage.

I think the gas would have to be pretty old to affect larger automobile engines. But yes, it does break down, and you can mess up a small engine by using old ethanol fuel. Fuel stabilizer would probably give the survivors' gas a little more lifetime, but I tend to think they'd run out before it went bad anyway.

Figure that during the outbreak, fuel delivery was probably interrupted, and there was also probably a run on gas as people tanked up to go god-knows-where. Personally, I think gasoline shortages would be much more of a problem for the survivors than we've seen.

**KamikazeCanuck**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
easysauce wrote:
ummm.... I fail to see how the little girl bludgeoned to death two people three times her size/weight and dragged them out to be burnt...

carol killed em.. if she was just covering for the girl, she wouldnt have bothered to fess up.

The kid has a knife. Shes obsessed with Walkers. She probably slit their throats so that they'd come back as Walkers. In her sick twisted mind she probably thinks shes doing them a favour.

Carol found out and covered for her by burning the corpses. Carol is Lizzie's de facto Guardian, and her motherly instincts compel her to protect Lizzie, Carol doesn't want to lose another girl like she did Sophia, so she claimed credit for the murders to protect Lizzie from Tyreese's wrath, and to prevent Lizzie being cast out or punished (what are they gonna do, get her a psychiatrist?).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

I disagree about it being dragged out being a good thing. At this pace it wouldn't overtake the comic until at least season 9 and even if it did it doesn't matter. It's 98% different anyway so the show has already gone it's own way anyway. This is basically the climax of the comic series and now the show can and should go in a 100% different direction. Just fully embrace it's a different entity now.

Well, I think its a good thing if they still intend to follow the general arc of the Comics. If they now decide to veer off into original, uncharted territory then that could work I suppose. Though I'll be disappointed if we don't get to see Negan.

Spoiler:

Besides,AFAIK Abraham Ford has already been confirmed for the second half of this season. I think the show is still broadly following the comics. Rick and Carl will be on the run alone for a while with Carl looking after Rick. Then they'll reunite with the survivors. The Hunters will kidnap and eat someone (Daryl? In a perverse, ironic way this would be a cool death for Daryl).Then they'll meet Abraham and his friends, and its on to Washington.

Yes, I've heard Abraham is confirmed too. I think they'll still use the same characters (easier than making up new characters all the time) but they should no longer feel like they need to hit the major story arcs of the comic. With the possible exception of a Neegan style story arc because that's basically about civilization being rebuilt and coming out of survivor mode. Such a story is unavoidable anyway but should be way, way down the line.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I am really looking forward to The Hunters and Negan. If you think the show is dark now, just wait till those characters are introduced.

**cadbren**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

So Lilly Chambler and her family are not original characters. Lilly is a portmanteau of two characters from the comics and books. They just merged the two character arcs together, and altered the timeline.

I haven't read the books so I guess I know what I'll be putting on my reading list next.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

The Rise of the Governor. (The Governor's origin story).
The Fall of the Governor: Road to Woodbury. (Lilly Caul's story).

The Fall of the Governor: Part 2 (to be released next March I believe).

I'm reading them on the Kindle. They're great books, they give a detailed background and explanation of how the Governor descended into his lunacy.

Big Spoilers:

Spoiler:

The 'Governor' of the books was originally a timid man called Brian Blake. His older and stronger brother Philip Blake was the father of Penny. The two brothers and Penny go on the road with a couple of Philip's friends (who die one by one). They run across the Chalmer family and become friends. Philip saves the two sisters, Tara and April (Lilly) when their father is killed by his cancer and reanimates (as in the show). Philip and April begin a relationship, but it falls apart when Philip loses control and rapes April. Tara throws them out of the apartment block and they're forced to hit the road again, but this time without any weapons and only a few supplies.

Eventually, Penny is killed in a shootout when a gang attacks the mansion they're taking shelter in. The father Philip can't bare to let her go so he keeps her reanimated corpse alive. Eventually they arrive at Woodbury, which is at this point being run by a tyrannical group of National Guardsmen.

Philip brings his daughter into Woodbury and hides her. He then kidnaps a young woman, takes her to the woods and tries to rape and kill her (possibly to feed her to Penny, I can't quite recall). His last surving friend, Nick Parsons witnesses Philip kill the girl. Being a religious man, hes sickened by this and kills the now insane Philip Blake. Brian finds out, and in a rage, kills Nick. He leaves the 3 bodies (his brother Philip, Nick and the girl) behind in the woods to be devoured by Walkers.

Brian is now in a rage, having lost all his family and friends, and despises his "Brian Blake" persona for being too weak and cowardly to save them. Its at this point that his Governor persona begins to emerge. At a meeting of all the Woodbury residents called by the Guardsmen, the leader kills a man who defies him. Brian approaches him, and guns him down, and the other Guardsmen are subdued. He then introduces himself to the rest of Woodbury as 'Philip Blake', assuming his deceased brother's identity from that point on.

Woodbury turn to him for leadership, and he eventually becomes known as the Governor.

Later on Lilly arrives at Woodbury, and her on-off lover Josh Lee Hamilton is murdered. The Governor deals with this by forcing the murder to fight one of the Guardsmen to the death in the towns dirt track arena (thus beginning the Woodbury tradition of blood fights). Eventually she begins to chafe under the Governor's brutality and attempts with several others to stage a coup by kidnapping the Governor and feeding him to Walkers. But it fails when a massive herd attacks Woodbury and they're forced to return. The Governor intimdates them into thinking they need him to keep Woodbury safe, and his reign of terror continues. (He's surprisingly 'forgiving'. Instead of killing or hurting them in retribution, he has them do the dirty jobs...chopping up corpses to feed to Walkers etc).

Fall of the Governor Part 1 ends with Lilly vowing to kill the Governor one day, when hes no longer needed.

Oh, and she gets pregnant after shagging a 20 something year old kid (with her being in her mid 30's) called Austin, when they fall in love after a series of harrowing supply runs. It fuels her desire to kill the Governor later on when she takes part in the assault on the Prison. The pregant Lilly kills the new mother Lori and her baby Judith, and a rage takes revenge on the Governor.

**Khornholio**

I enjoyed watching it, but I'll leave all the speculating up to you guys. I'm looking forward to the second half in February.

**Matt1785**

Have to wait until February!!!?? No!!!

Crazy episode although it made me angry at points, it's amazing how attached they get you to these characters, and then to see them die like that.

I agree with earlier, Governor should have died to chewing... but I suppose his end was fitting, as it is his fault the girl dies, leaving her alone with the mother.

Super episode, I can't wait until February.

**Lint**

Good episode. Carl has really developed and the writers are doing an impressive job harvesting the depth they've been building in him all season.

And he's officially on my team for the Zompocalypse

**Frazzled**

If he learned to quit playing back up he'd be just fine.

he just needs to learn from Tallahasee. Bang a dinner bell. When they come a runnin', hit 'em with a banjo.

**Crablezworth**

Episode summary, karl falls all over the place and then falls all over the place again, michone kills zombies with sword. I just hate watch the show now, it's become a sitcom in a lot of ways. I keep watching hoping somehow it will get better, the first half of the season was pretty dissapointing. Bringing back the governor? Really? I'm happy that's over with, hopefully the other half of the season gets better. Really though, after they got rid of darabont the show went downhill in a big way.

**Frazzled**

Crablezworth wrote:
Episode summary, karl falls all over the place and then falls all over the place again, michone kills zombies with sword. I just hate watch the show now, it's become a sitcom in a lot of ways. I keep watching hoping somehow it will get better, the first half of the season was pretty dissapointing. Bringing back the governor? Really? I'm happy that's over with, hopefully the other half of the season gets better. Really though, after they got rid of darabont the show went downhill in a big way.

Well

Spoiler:

Michonne was awesome. I'm waiting to see "I am a fully operational battlestation" Tyreese go to town again.

**pretre**

I was disappointed in how silly Carl acted at times, but he is a teenager deep in the 'I hate my dad' section of his life, so I forgive him a little. Mostly, I agree with the Talahassee comment. First step of any home clear should be knocking loudly on each door.

**Frazzled**

Preferably, with a banjo. Don't forget to limber up first!

**pretre**

Frazzled wrote:
Preferably, with a banjo. Don't forget to limber up first!

Yeah, Carl's lack of melee weapon also annoys me. Banjo, whatever. He had the stake and continued to run himself out of ammo instead of using it. Grr

**Frazzled**

Well come on, he is only supposed to be what 14 here.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I can't help but wonder why they ditched the rifles they were using in the previous episode.

**pretre**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I can't help but wonder why they ditched the rifles they were using in the previous episode.

Ammo is my guess.

**Crablezworth**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I can't help but wonder why they ditched the rifles they were using in the previous episode.

Because amc is too damn cheap, that's why. Darabont called them out on it and they axed him. That's also why so damn much of the show is "indoors" now because it's cheaper. Hell, even when they use guns they more often than not just opt to add a muzzle flash in post and call it a day, the slides rarely move on the pistols, the m4's never seem to be ejecting shells or are conveninetly shot from the other side. AMC is just cheap, cheap cheap.

**pretre**

Crablezworth wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I can't help but wonder why they ditched the rifles they were using in the previous episode.

Because amc is too damn cheap, that's why. Darabont called them out on it and they axed him. That's also why so damn much of the show is "indoors" now because it's cheaper.

Umm. I'm not even sure where that is coming from. Although it might be true, did you watch the most recent episode... Because it was mostly outdoors. Also, how is having the same props as a previous episode more expensive. And why am I even responding to this...

**Crablezworth**

pretre wrote:
Crablezworth wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I can't help but wonder why they ditched the rifles they were using in the previous episode.

Because amc is too damn cheap, that's why. Darabont called them out on it and they axed him. That's also why so damn much of the show is "indoors" now because it's cheaper.

Umm. I'm not even sure where that is coming from. Although it might be true, did you watch the most recent episode... Because it was mostly outdoors. Also, how is having the same props as a previous episode more expensive. And why am I even responding to this...

The attitude is not necessary.

It's not just the props, if they're actually using an armoror and firing blanks or squibs it adds a lot to their effects budget, a lot of which I'm sure is taken up my makeup.

As for shooting indoor vs outdoor, outdoor is much much more expensive, you need a larger crew and time of day and weather are factors no budget are able to control. The second you're indoor whether on a sound stage or on location the costs go way down. That's why the show is so lazy, a season ona farm and two seasons at a prison.

Look at the first season of house of cards as an example, they spend a large portion of their budget on the first 3 epsiodes then it switches to indoor and all of a sudden feels a lot cheaper. Especially considering the huge set pieces earlier in the season,

I'm a fan of the first seasons, everything after has left me dissapointed. I'd rather have 6 episodes a season that are memorable, have good writing and very good budgets.

**pretre**

So repeat question, because the first episode of this season was mostly outside. A bunch of the last season was travelling/outside stuff. I get where you are coming from but I don't know that it all matches up with reality.

**Crablezworth**

Think about both locations, a forest and a neighbourhood. It's a smart way to shave costs but that's sorta where I want them to spend money, now I don't expect them to make a forest look post apocalyptic, the neighbourhood could have used a bit more dressing up though.

If if you've ever seen the stargate tv show, there's a reason every planet they visit looks like a british columbian forest. The first season really sold you the viewer on the whole world, it was really up there with shows like game of thrones for doing a fantastic job with their set pieces. I mean look at the iconic shot of going into atlanta with one side of the highway empty and the side leaving it full of car wrecks. That stays with you.

**pretre**

Crablezworth wrote:
Think about both locations, a forest and a neighbourhood. It's a smart way to shave costs but that's sorta where I want them to spend money, now I don't expect them to make a forest look post apocalyptic, the neighbourhood could have used a bit more dressing up.

If if you've ever seen the stargate tv show, there's a reason every planet they visit looks like a british columbian forest.

And a BBQ joint, and last season a town where they pick up the baby stuff (that was last season, right?) and the veterinary hospital, etc, so on.

**Hulksmash**

I honestly don't know what you expect Crablezworth. You cite GoT but they've been using the same sets for the majority of the series. And just this year in Walking Dead we've had:

-Helicopter thru the Piggly Wiggly and air zombies
-Home in the woods
-Prison upgrade including new wings and farming
-the university
-couple of camps
-deteriorated apartment building
-3 different destroyed neighborhoods
-BBQ joint

And I'm probably missing some. And that doesn't count the ridiculous number zombies we've seen this season. And a couple of great mothering zombie and human battles. I don't really know what you're looking for. But the money is there and I think being used well.

Plus they shouldn't be in huge developments. Huge developments and larger towns means hundreds of thousands of zombies which makes it a bad idea.

**Compel**

I'm still not really enjoying the show anymore. Sort of watching out of obligation now.

I'd summary the episode as:

So, kid was a jerk. Then had an unpleasant walk. Decided to be less of a jerk, while the badass chick had a bit of a breakdown, but got better. Oh, and Thorin's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Ryan%27s_Strike_Back]Backstabber[/url] took a nap.

**Crablezworth**

Hulksmash wrote:
I honestly don't know what you expect Crablezworth.

Fewer episodes a season but higher quality episodes. I expect seasons as good as season 1 was. If it takes cutting the air time in half to do it then so be it. Quality over quantity. Oh and I want Darabont back... badly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Compel wrote:
I'm still not really enjoying the show anymore. Sort of watching out of obligation now.

I've grown to calling that "hatewatching"

**Ninjacommando**

Frazzled wrote:
Well come on, he is only supposed to be what 14 here.

Only 14? gak he has had two years to train with Shane, Rick, Daryl Slayer of Tanks. If a child soldier can do it with minimal training and while high, Carl should be able to do it better as he has been trained... Better.