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Computron wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

At that point of time I think survival is foremost on everyone mind. ....He can provide a Spiritual Need for anybody.

These people have all spent the last few years without a priest, not the group or the community - why would they suddenly need one now? Especially one who didn't try to save any of his congregation.
Genuinely religious/spiritual people don't need warlocks, shamans etc for guidance, they get it from their community of their sense in the divine.
Religious leaders are good for bringing communities who share beliefs together, the people in the show are not that kind of community.

I am not going to get into a religious debate with you

Edit

I am giving him a possible role and the justification on why. If you think I am applying to RL situation then you need to stop taking Walking Dead in all seriousness

Was it just me, or did it seem like they didn't really resolve much and just added more issues?

Pretty much!

I think they're just pressing FF on Rick and Co. 'taking over'.

Just in time to...start playing baseball.

Anyway, another good episode for The Bloodthirsty Brigade!

I really don't know why "instant resolution" should be expected or even desired. Besides, it looks like some things may happen soon enough, as the show still seems to be following the comic's basic storyline.

Personally, I thought it was a solid episode, with plenty of stuff to discuss. At first I thought Carol's interaction with the kid (Sam?) might be the thing that softens her and pulls her out of the darkness. But then you had the last scene, LOL.

I think Carol is definitely the devil on Rick's shoulder right now. Note now dark the room was when Carol told Rick what he had to do -- a nice touch by the director. And note the absence in that scene of Daryl, who is becoming a moral compass of sorts and might (funnily enough) be one of the angels sitting on Rick's other shoulder (Michonne being the other one). I still think we're headed for a moment in which Carol needs to change or be cut loose again.

Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen -- also didn't feel that important or impactful to me. The best thing in that sequence was seeing Eugene stepping up. I think it's going to be fun to watch audiences root for and respect him more and more as things go on.


I also rewatched the previous two episodes last night, and a couple little things occurred to me. I think the scene with Rick handling his gun while watching Jessie and Pete was meant to evoke the scene when Shane (wanting to take Lori for himself) put the rifle crosshairs on Rick. Funny how those tables have turned. And it's also interesting to consider how much the audience has evolved from that time. Somehow Rick's action doesn't see AS horrific as Shane's, does it?

Another little touch from that episode was the "A" symbol. I had thought of The Scarlet Letter last week, but I didn't really notice how in the final scene Jessie and Rick are the only ones to show their "A"s to one other. Although I dunno how much "A" is really going to take place, based on what I think the previews were showing us.

I can see Rick using Noah as justification to take a bigger leadership role being his people are on point. Big guy taking charge at the construction site and Diana son going "Maverick" and setting off the frag on vest being prime examples. I wonder how Rick going to handle the news if them leaving people behind at the first signs of trouble

@gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?

I am liking the Carol/kid dynamic. Was hoping they'd do a bonding thing, but they may just drop that for Carol telling Rick to ice him. I figure Rick will confront him in the finale, and just end up arresting him seeing as how he's the constable. I imagine Carol will be hollering for blood.

I imagine she'll be killed off at a pivotal moment to prevent her from upsetting the Alexandria arc too much. She's become a moral compass(a dark one), she's not long for this series!

I liked this last episode.

My wife (who loves WD) remarked at the start of the show "I hope they don't have another episode where they just walk around and nothing happens" and then BAM!

I would be happy enough if they didn't follow the comic arc and just straight up turned Rick and crew into the bad guys (maybe with reception later).

As a wise man once said "You either die a hero, or live to see yourself become the villain...." or something like that.

Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.

For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.

Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.

They may not like it, but they need it.

Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.

Do we know what "impaled duede's" actual last words were?

I didn't actually catch it except for the "....abandoned...." Part.

He admitted to Glen that they "Abandon them"
Which reinforces what was said at the construction site when they had walkers stagger in on them. Which Big Guy knew they were coming due to birds hopping into the air and flying over them. Liked how the way he was motivating himself up to wreck faces

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?

Spoiler:

I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.

I really don't know what to tell you if your honest takeaway from last night is that "nothing happened."

 Alpharius wrote:
Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.

For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.

Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.

They may not like it, but they need it.

Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.

Well, I think I'd argue that the Alexandrians were pretty well adapted to survive in *their* world. They weren't equipped to survive the worst-case scenario because they didn't need to. And they have some of their gak together with regards to stuff that doesn't involve zombies and raiders (basically the living like civilized humans part). On the other hand, Rick's crew adapted to survive through all kinds of bad, but at a substantial cost (in lives and to their humanity). And it's doubtful that they could have lived much longer out there and like that.

Sasha's statement about Alexandria not being real was indeed bullgak, as Deanna stated. The "world" is not only as Rick and company see it, and indeed as we the audience have seen it to this point. (For one thing, combustion engines in the "real world" don't have to break down after 30 miles of use. ) The danger outside is real, but the promise of something better inside the walls is real too.

@Gorgon
3 things happened to advance the plot last night:
1. Abraham took over the construction crew(a continuation of Rick's crew taking over in general).
2. Alexandria's abandonment policy became known(continuation of what we already know- Alexandria is sheltered).
3. Eugene stood up.
Two of those things were just expanding on what was expected/already know. The last one is a baby step toward character growth. While yes, "things happened" nothing really meaningful occurred.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I suppose we could add Carol finding out about the abusive husband, and the preacher telling Deanna about the group(although I'm sure she already knew that).

Maybe I'm spoiled because I've read the comic.

Nicolas is a c***. Hopefully he gets death from the comics.

Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen

This sounds great - looking forward to it.

 Jihadin wrote:
He admitted to Glen that they "Abandon them"
Which reinforces what was said at the construction site when they had walkers stagger in on them. Which Big Guy knew they were coming due to birds hopping into the air and flying over them. Liked how the way he was motivating himself up to wreck faces

Not so much motivating himself...more like fighting off a panic attack. At this point in the comics, Abraham begins to start suffering PTSD or panic attacks, and begins to dread going outside the walls (waking up in cold sweats etc). Regardless, he always manages to step up and lead by example though.

Also, it appears Francine is the show's version of Holly. Same gloves, hair style and personality.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen

This sounds great - looking forward to it.

It was pretty rough. More than one person actually gets munched to death in this episode.

Yeah but the other guy deserved it. Good fething riddance.

What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?

If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.

If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.

I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?


----



As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.

I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.

I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
He admitted to Glen that they "Abandon them"
Which reinforces what was said at the construction site when they had walkers stagger in on them. Which Big Guy knew they were coming due to birds hopping into the air and flying over them. Liked how the way he was motivating himself up to wreck faces

Not so much motivating himself...more like fighting off a panic attack. At this point in the comics, Abraham begins to start suffering PTSD or panic attacks, and begins to dread going outside the walls (waking up in cold sweats etc). Regardless, he always manages to step up and lead by example though.

Also, it appears Francine is the show's version of Holly. Same gloves, hair style and personality.

How else one if that situation fights off the panic. You self motivate. He was in full swing when he got hold of the "Flail" on the other side of the excauvator after pushing Fracine up into the cab.....that was a damn Fail right? Abraham was a freaking beast.

 gorgon wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?

Spoiler:

I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.

I really don't know what to tell you if your honest takeaway from last night is that "nothing happened."

 Alpharius wrote:
Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.

For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.

Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.

They may not like it, but they need it.

Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.

Well, I think I'd argue that the Alexandrians were pretty well adapted to survive in *their* world. They weren't equipped to survive the worst-case scenario because they didn't need to. And they have some of their gak together with regards to stuff that doesn't involve zombies and raiders (basically the living like civilized humans part). On the other hand, Rick's crew adapted to survive through all kinds of bad, but at a substantial cost (in lives and to their humanity). And it's doubtful that they could have lived much longer out there and like that.

Sasha's statement about Alexandria not being real was indeed bullgak, as Deanna stated. The "world" is not only as Rick and company see it, and indeed as we the audience have seen it to this point. (For one thing, combustion engines in the "real world" don't have to break down after 30 miles of use. ) The danger outside is real, but the promise of something better inside the walls is real too.

Not sure if kidding or joking...?

The Alexandrians are not living in reality and they themselves knew it - or at least some of them did!

Yeah, great scene but where did the flail come from?

Would also be nice to see them securing some more solid construction supplies such as heavy steel flooring rather than corrugated iron.

...and I guess rule #43 when surviving a zombie apocalypse is watch out for revolving doors - they are not your friend.

Computron wrote:
Yeah, great scene but where did the flail come from?

Would also be nice to see them securing some more solid construction supplies such as heavy steel flooring rather than corrugated iron.

...and I guess rule #43 when surviving a zombie apocalypse is watch out for revolving doors - they are not your friend.

The flail was actually a construction light stand. He tore it off the generator- the light was the club end of the flail. He held it by the shaft, while the wire formed the chain.

 yakface wrote:

What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?

If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.

If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.

I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?


----



As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.

I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.

I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.

That's why its hard to follow this thread. I submit there should be two different threads. TV and unrestricted TWD warfare.

I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT COMICS!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Computron wrote:
Yeah, great scene but where did the flail come from?

Would also be nice to see them securing some more solid construction supplies such as heavy steel flooring rather than corrugated iron.

...and I guess rule #43 when surviving a zombie apocalypse is watch out for revolving doors - they are not your friend.

The flail was actually a construction light stand. He tore it off the generator- the light was the club end of the flail. He held it by the shaft, while the wire formed the chain.

Thanks, I watched that episode on a smaller screen so it was hard to tell what it was except that it worked! He had a big grin on his face too.

 yakface wrote:


As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.

I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.

I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.

I think I'm in an agreement with you.

Don't get me wrong, I love my gore... but, I'd have to be in the right mindset.

It did seem to be a bit gratituous.

What's wrong with ass and bewbs on the screen? And yet, we're shown zombies chowing down on fresh meat in gooey details.

'Murrica... we're weird people... dude.

 Byte wrote:

Spoiler:

 yakface wrote:

What part of 'comics talk only in spoiler tags' is difficult to understand?

If you are talking about how a character is different in the comics, that needs to go into spoilers.

If you are talking about characters or events in the comics that don't exist in the TV show (yet), that needs to go into spoiler tags, even if your'e just speculating that those characters/locations might appear on the show someday.

I just don't understand why that is so hard to keep in mind?


----



As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.

I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.

I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.

That's why its hard to follow this thread. I submit there should be two different threads. TV and unrestricted TWD warfare.

I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT COMICS!

Honestly if they were both split one would probably sink anyway. There just isn't enough traffic between the two sides. And comics people would still post in this one just because it has a history now.
Has anything been spoiled for you so far, or do you not like seeing anything mentioning comics at all, even comic-related spoilers?

@computron
Yeah, I think the light actually flew off(or disappeared) after a few swings so it ended up as a mace. It was probably my favorite part of the episode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 yakface wrote:


As for this episode, I found the deaths to be above and beyond gruesome than they've ever done before, and the camera lingered on those deaths for an incredibly long amount of time.

I don't feel like any viewers feel getting killed and eaten by a zombie isn't a terrible fate, so the level of gore and the duration of shots feels more like gleeful pride at showing horrible pain and death, something that really puts me off about horror movies.

I have to say, I didn't care for it. It seemed nedlessly horrible and I'm still constantly surprised at what they're able to put on basic cable TV, when nudity and sex are still so taboo there.

I think I'm in an agreement with you.

Don't get me wrong, I love my gore... but, I'd have to be in the right mindset.

It did seem to be a bit gratituous.

What's wrong with ass and bewbs on the screen? And yet, we're shown zombies chowing down on fresh meat in gooey details.

'Murrica... we're weird people... dude.

Public hangings, duels, and such have been a part of our culture, same as covering up any lewdness. You take your kids to a hanging, and you run any harlots out of town on a rail. That's basically the Walking Dead in a nutshell. After the "kiss" quite a few people wrote in about how they'd never watch he show again. Caused a bit of a social media uproar.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen

This sounds great - looking forward to it.

It was pretty rough. More than one person actually gets munched to death in this episode.

Watching it tonight - I really disliked Noah the "jinx" and so happy to se him go - sounds like he manages to get more people killed in the process - sounds like him..............

 Alpharius wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@gorgon
Not expecting "instant resolution", and I never said that. It just seems that this episode was a continuation of the last one with Rick's group integrating themselves into Alexandria. Other than Daryl driving off, Abraham taking over a group, and Eugene stepping up nothing really happened(apart from Noah's death, but I don't think anyone was surprised). Had plenty of zombie smashing and people gobbling, but sometimes I want a little more you know?

Spoiler:

I guess I just can't be happy with TWD.

I really don't know what to tell you if your honest takeaway from last night is that "nothing happened."

 Alpharius wrote:
Rick and Company will absolutely NOT be morphed into the bad guys.

For many reasons, but especially not with no one's favorite baseball player looming large.

Alexandria somehow existed in a somewhat peaceful bubble - they are in no way set up to survive in 'the real world' - as last night's episode when Maggie told Deanna pretty much just that.

They may not like it, but they need it.

Especially as we learned that the Alexandrians' recent deaths were due to their own incompetence and their own "abandon them!" policy.

Well, I think I'd argue that the Alexandrians were pretty well adapted to survive in *their* world. They weren't equipped to survive the worst-case scenario because they didn't need to. And they have some of their gak together with regards to stuff that doesn't involve zombies and raiders (basically the living like civilized humans part). On the other hand, Rick's crew adapted to survive through all kinds of bad, but at a substantial cost (in lives and to their humanity). And it's doubtful that they could have lived much longer out there and like that.

Sasha's statement about Alexandria not being real was indeed bullgak, as Deanna stated. The "world" is not only as Rick and company see it, and indeed as we the audience have seen it to this point. (For one thing, combustion engines in the "real world" don't have to break down after 30 miles of use. ) The danger outside is real, but the promise of something better inside the walls is real too.

Not sure if kidding or joking...?

The Alexandrians are not living in reality and they themselves knew it - or at least some of them did!

No, what Deanna knows is that the Alexandrians aren't prepared for certain things. They are prepared for other things, and Alexandria is as real as anything else in that world. Deanna's line to Sasha was important.

It's like saying that those of us living in wealthy, modern nations are "not living in reality" because our daily lives aren't as hard or dangerous as those of people living in certain other places around the world. Everyone's lives are real. They're just different, because the conditions around us are different.

And really, which group was thriving at the time of Rick's arrival at Alexandria? Remember that the area around Alexandria was evacuated, leaving it raider-free to this point, and with no zombie populations that the walls can't handle. Alexandria was well adapted to its surroundings. The Alexandrians actually built defenses, had a plan for power, water, etc. They should almost certainly be doing more farming than we've seen, but they're rationing food, dividing up labor, working to extend their defenses, etc. They're working to survive -- there are just some gaps in their thinking and areas in which they lack experience. Deanna's smart enough to realize that these other threats may emerge along the path to civilization.

Enter Rick and company -- but they can't go about their business as if they're on the run, struggling to survive on the road, living moment-to-moment without a plan. Because that's not their reality anymore. The whole thing is about synthesis.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Noah's death -- while one of the most gruesome we've seen

This sounds great - looking forward to it.

It was pretty rough. More than one person actually gets munched to death in this episode.

Watching it tonight - I really disliked Noah the "jinx" and so happy to se him go - sounds like he manages to get more people killed in the process - sounds like him..............

Beth was categorically not Noah's fault. Beth's death was Beth's fault.

He was to blame for Tyreese's death, but then again so was the rest of the group. They arrived at Noah's home to find it burnt down and the residents massacred. They should have forseen a distraught Noah running off looking for his family and doing something stupid. Tyreese's death was a result of collective incompetence.

Personally I really enjoyed the episode.

-We got zombie smashing
-We got Aiden dead (already hated that guy)
-We got Eugene stepping up
-We got Glenn's first experience being responsible for losing someone
-We got massively escalating tension in the Alexandrian government
-We got the double cross of the crazy priest who wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for Rick's group.
-We got a softening of Carol's character
-We got confirmation (of sorts) of abuse from the town drunk doctor.
-We got Abraham being the man.

So much happened in this episode. I really feel like we're not going to see much of anything outside of Alexandria for the rest of the season. Next episode will obviously be a confrontation especially when the dude they brought back claims Glenn and them killed Aiden which has to happen.

This is how you have them stay in one place. It's excellent. I will say that I winced/turned away from part of Noah's death. I get why they did his that way but that was gruesome.