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Very good start to the season.

I quite liked the "clip-scene" as well.

I was kind of shocked to come on here and see everyone raving about how much they liked that episode. Most of the reviews online seemed to agree with that sentiment. I thought I was going crazy because I more or less hated the episode, but I finally ran across one reviewer that more or less sums up my overall issues with it nicely:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/here-s-what-was-wrong-with-the-walking-dead-s-mid-seaso-1759186419

The big, huge problem I have is that the threat of the zombies seems to dramatically shift from 'OMG they're going to kill us' to 'we can kill hundreds of them if we just try' based solely on what is needed at a given moment.

Having our pack of zombie guts heroes find a nice quiet spot in the middle of the city where they can talk without attracting any walkers? No problem...the zombies just wander around aimlessly near them without noticing their talking, despite it not being that particularly quiet. Then all of a sudden when the zombies 'need' to kill people, they lunge out and bite the Wolf guy on the arm or tear Sam apart. But then when its time for Rick to go crazy and start killing zombies, all of a sudden its possible for a small group to take on hundreds, if not thousands of walkers at once? Its completely bat guano crazy by the standards the show has set for itself. And when Abraham and Sasha show up, they can suddenly mow down dozens of zombies in an instant right in front of Glenn without hitting him? Its just lazy. It didn't need to be blocked like that except to give another cheap scare about Glenn possibly dying.

The worst of all? Darryl setting the lake in the middle of the town on fire? Are you kidding me? I remember back when we were talking about the quarry in this thread, I suggested that they should have simply lit the walkers in the quarry on fire, and someone said that it would be too dangerous because any walkers that would escape would surely start a wildfire. And yet here we are in the MIDDLE OF THE TOWN and the zombies are being set on fire and somehow this is a miraculous cure to save everything! And when dawn arrives, nobody fighting hundreds of zombies by hand has apparently been killed, and no flaming zombies managed to set anything on fire.

I feel like more and more TWD is simply deciding what they want to happen, and then are perfectly fine and dandy with bending any and all realism and internal standards they have previously established to make that thing happen. The first half of this season I felt like they were really starting to go that direction (with Glenn's 'death' for example) and this latest episode was the absolute worst offender yet.

As the reviewer states in his article, exactly what number of zombies are supposed to be a credible threat after this episode? The next time someone gets killed by a handful of zombies (or even like the Wolf guy did in this episode) its just going to feel so cheap, because its been established now that a group of people with hand weapons should be able to kill dozens, if not hundreds of walkers without taking a single loss.

So? I think you're forgetting that this show is adapted from a comic book, and comics aren't exactly known for their realism. This episode has been the most comic book-y stylized episode in probably the entire series so far, particularly when Rick began chopping Jesse's arm and the screen flashed red with each chop, and the action sequence at the end when it began cycling through the various combatants at super speed. There were lots of elements in this episode taken directly from or inspired by the comics. Its like this entire episode was an homage to the comics, and a reminder to the viewers that it is based on a comic book. Criticizing TWD for it lack of realism is like criticizing 300.

But I do think this was a one off.

As the reviewer states in his article, exactly what number of zombies are supposed to be a credible threat after this episode?

For a very long time, they're not going to be a threat. People are going to be the main threat. The whole point of this episode was to be a turning point, the moment when Rick realizes the undead hordes can be dealt with and managed if people work together and cooperate. Its a moment that gives him hope (until a certain motherfether mercilessly crushes it ).

Theres a conflict coming soon which will be the BIGGEST survivor vs survivor conflict the show has ever seen, to the point that two entire Volumes of the comics (12 issues) were named "All Out War part 1 and 2". Zombies are going to take a back seat for a very long while, besides being weaponized and exploited by various survivor groups.

FYI, just an off topic tidbit:

Its the plot of one of the novels about the bad things which happen when you try and set a horde on fire. Post-Governor Woodbury create a wall of fire to stop the horde created post-prison. ...The zombies walk through it. There's then a few thousand zombies walking towards Woodbury, whilst on fire...

Queue a forest fire/ half of the town being burned down before the horde's led away from the town into a swamp and they blow up.

Zombies are always going to be a 'threat' but they are a manageable one, even in large numbers.

I think even the comic has moved to this point some time ago.

Once again, the true monsters are, of course, your fellow survivors, and what they'll do to survive.

All in all I thought it a much better episode than many this season and much better than the preceding.

Things I liked
Negan's men, and the rocket that took them out.
Carol shooting the Wolf (finally)
Blonde mom and kids was sad but good for the plot
Carl likewise

Things I didn't
the whole lake of fire bit
The Priest is still going - friend of mine watching, she kept saying "please kill him"
Fake scientist guy still useless and still going.


Fine with the whole killing loads of them - felt pretty cool and comic like.

 Alpharius wrote:
Zombies are always going to be a 'threat' but they are a manageable one, even in large numbers.

I think even the comic has moved to this point some time ago.

Once again, the true monsters are, of course, your fellow survivors, and what they'll do to survive.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Fake scientist guy still useless and still going.

@Wyrmalla.

Regarding Rick and the current comic plotline, that's not true at all.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So? I think you're forgetting that this show is adapted from a comic book, and comics aren't exactly known for their realism. This episode has been the most comic book-y stylized episode in probably the entire series so far, particularly when Rick began chopping Jesse's arm and the screen flashed red with each chop, and the action sequence at the end when it began cycling through the various combatants at super speed. There were lots of elements in this episode taken directly from or inspired by the comics. Its like this entire episode was an homage to the comics, and a reminder to the viewers that it is based on a comic book. Criticizing TWD for it lack of realism is like criticizing 300.

Yeah, I'm just gonna keep saying it until it sticks. It's a character-driven drama, not a tactical simulation or science textbook. All that stuff will always be secondary to the characters and the story Kirkman and Gimple want to tell. If one just can't look past it, then it's probably not the show or comic for them.

Zombies are going to take a back seat for a very long while, besides being weaponized and exploited by various survivor groups.

Yep! Honestly, this may be a getting-off point for people who just like the zombie gore. Personally, I think it'd be a shame since there's a whole lot of human conflict to come, but to each their own.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Fake scientist guy still useless and still going.

Fake scientist perhaps, but Eugene is genuinely smart and the show is entering a phase now in which he will have much more opportunity to shine.

And Wyrmalla, you're distorting the current events in the comic book.

 Alpharius wrote:
Zombies are always going to be a 'threat' but they are a manageable one, even in large numbers.

I think even the comic has moved to this point some time ago.

Once again, the true monsters are, of course, your fellow survivors, and what they'll do to survive.

Yep, this was a key part of the Alexandria swarm in the comics; they figured out that Zombies aren't the real threat since any dedicated group of individuals with hand weapons can stand their ground and kill a ridiculous number of them. I'm glad they brought this over from the comics.

Fake scientist perhaps, but Eugene is genuinely smart and the show is entering a phase now in which he will have much more opportunity to shine.

Or they just kill him off with Gabrial and Morgan - I dislike them as much as I dislike Jon bloody Snow

I dislike Gabrial more than Morgan. Morgan might be annoying and crazy but lord the man has a code. Gabrial is just a waste of space.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Fake scientist perhaps, but Eugene is genuinely smart and the show is entering a phase now in which he will have much more opportunity to shine.

Or they just kill him off with Gabrial and Morgan - I dislike them as much as I dislike Jon bloody Snow

Eugene is responsible for setting up a an ammunition FACTORY in the comics. He designs windmills, repairs long wave radios, comes up with methods for managing and diverting huge hordes of walkers, plans out defenses... You're being way too harsh on him. This is the point at which he begins to really pull his own weight.

In the last episode alone we saw him use his lock picking skills to let himself Rosita and Tara into Morgans house from the locked garage, and he finally gathered the courage to join the fight.

Eugene is quite literally the smartest guy in Washington.

Yep. As their environment changes, different skill sets will rise and fall.

Carol is facing the inverse situation to Eugene. As I've been saying for a while, she will be needed less as there's less reason to treat everyone as an enemy to be dealt with. She's filled an invaluable role as Mama Bear, but now things are changing as a community starts to be built. The question then becomes whether she has another change left in her. This is the natural course of Carol's arc, and I'm happy to see that the show seems to be addressing it.

 gorgon wrote:
Yep. As their environment changes, different skill sets will rise and fall.

Carol is facing the inverse situation to Eugene. As I've been saying for a while, she will be needed less as there's less reason to treat everyone as an enemy to be dealt with. She's filled an invaluable role as Mama Bear, but now things are changing as a community starts to be built. The question then becomes whether she has another change left in her. This is the natural course of Carol's arc, and I'm happy to see that the show seems to be addressing it.

Shes going to



like in the comics, I think.

I hope not- she's become one of my favorite characters! The wife has already muttered,


Although I will understand why they would follow that end from the comics, I'm hoping she takes over part of comic-Andrea's role.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Fake scientist perhaps, but Eugene is genuinely smart and the show is entering a phase now in which he will have much more opportunity to shine.

Or they just kill him off with Gabrial and Morgan - I dislike them as much as I dislike Jon bloody Snow

Eugene is responsible for setting up a an ammunition FACTORY in the comics. He designs windmills, repairs long wave radios, comes up with methods for managing and diverting huge hordes of walkers, plans out defenses... You're being way too harsh on him. This is the point at which he begins to really pull his own weight.

In the last episode alone we saw him use his lock picking skills to let himself Rosita and Tara into Morgans house from the locked garage, and he finally gathered the courage to join the fight.

Eugene is quite literally the smartest guy in Washington.

Yeha I know the comics - this aint the comics - its related but different................. Eugene can die and be replaced by another character just like others - Andrea is one the most important in the comics - tv dead.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Yep. As their environment changes, different skill sets will rise and fall.

Carol is facing the inverse situation to Eugene. As I've been saying for a while, she will be needed less as there's less reason to treat everyone as an enemy to be dealt with. She's filled an invaluable role as Mama Bear, but now things are changing as a community starts to be built. The question then becomes whether she has another change left in her. This is the natural course of Carol's arc, and I'm happy to see that the show seems to be addressing it.

Shes going to

Spoiler:

commit suicide

like in the comics, I think.

Highly possible. But it's also possible that she gets a different ending just because of the popularity of the character, AND the show character's history. Having her go out like that sends her off in kind of a defeated manner, and that might be almost inappropriate given how Carol has grown from her beginnings on the show.

I think it's also possible that...

Yep. As their environment changes, different skill sets will rise and fall.

Carol is facing the inverse situation to Eugene. As I've been saying for a while, she will be needed less as there's less reason to treat everyone as an enemy to be dealt with. She's filled an invaluable role as Mama Bear, but now things are changing as a community starts to be built. The question then becomes whether she has another change left in her. This is the natural course of Carol's arc, and I'm happy to see that the show seems to be addressing it.

If as people seem to think, the Negan arc plays out in pretty much the same way than Carol will be much more useful than many of the current dead weight.

But already Negans crrew is acting differently - Carol may be the Andrea element not sniping but stealthing...........

Heres a theory that suddenly occurred to me.

In the comics, Sophia survives and is adopted by Glenn and Maggie and they all become a family unit. Sophia becomes Carl's best friend and a possible love interest (its hinted that she has feelings for him, but he hasn't yet reciprocated them as of the current issue).

In the show, Sophia is long dead. But Enid, whose parents are dead, seems to be getting close to Glenn. She certainly isn't close to anyone else other than Carl. Maybe Enid will end up fulfilling Sophia's role as Carl's best friend, and teenage counterpart. With Ron dead, the show lacks any teenage peers for Carl.

@Mr. Morden: I had the same thought regarding Negan's crew.



@SCE: Yeah, I've thought for a while that Enid's picking up Sophia's arc.

Actually, remember the two guys who ambushed Sascha, Abraham and Daryl and ran them off the road in Episode 6 Always Accountable? The TWD wiki credits those guys as being members of the Saviours.

So this new group of bikers aren't their first encounter with the Saviours.

What, so Jesus walks the earth and no one has anything to say about it?

It's JESUS!

I can't even finish the episode. I use my sister's xfinity account on my phone and the acct information disappeared 3/4 through. I saw the scuffle on the farm...and it cut out right there. Blah. Quiet episode so far, but some good emotional growth for a couple of the characters. Plus Jesus arrives. And damn, does he look the part! No wonder his friends call him that.

I really enjoyed the episode. It was a bit more light hearted which the show needed. Everyone felt pretty relaxed with each other (between Ricks group and the Alexandrians). Time jump was a good thing.

The look on Darryls face when Rick is singing along is brilliant. And their tiny exchanges were great.

Jesus is already a character I quite like. I hope they don't waste him (unlikely given the source material) like they seemed to have Aaron who I also really liked but who they haven't done anything with this season.

I think it was a brilliant episode actually. It did really well at portraying the sense of hope for the future and optimism that Alexandria develops after they unite to destroy the herd.



Jesus is a little younger than I was expecting.

The one thing I missed from the episode was Abraham disposing of Jessie's reanimated corpse before Rick sees it to spare him. I get that the show did a 2 month time jump to skip over the boring bits of Rick's grieving and the rebuilding of Alexandria, but that was a nice moment that they could have put in as a flashback, or in the intro.

And I was mildly disappointed that Jesus didn't get to show off his Matrix bullet dodging skills when Rick and an entire group of people open up on him with assault rifles and he dives behind some cars.

Good episode, and really glad to finally see Jesus on the scene.

And more deviations from the comics - I love it!

I got to finish. Can honestly say I've been expecting that episode ending scene for a WHILE now. Maybe not the inclusion of Jesus in it, but the rest of it.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I really enjoyed the episode. It was a bit more light hearted which the show needed. Everyone felt pretty relaxed with each other (between Ricks group and the Alexandrians). Time jump was a good thing.

The look on Darryls face when Rick is singing along is brilliant. And their tiny exchanges were great.

Jesus is already a character I quite like. I hope they don't waste him (unlikely given the source material) like they seemed to have Aaron who I also really liked but who they haven't done anything with this season.

Reedus had a good episode. It was a super fleeting moment, but during Daryl's conversation with Denise, I chuckled out loud over those little hand motions he did in mockery of her.

And having Jesus be a foil for Daryl is PERFECT. Obviously, it's not something that happens in the books since Daryl isn't around, but I think it really fits that Daryl would be annoyed by him (at least at first). Daryl isn't obviously the biggest bada$$ in the room if Jesus is there.

It's even funnier knowing that Jesus was almost certainly fething with Daryl by continually flopping his head on his shoulder in the back seat.

See, I felt like Rick was screwing with Daryl by turning the car so that Jesus kept landing on his shoulder. Which made me chuckle since the entire episode, down to the final comment when they were leaving Jesus in the "cell" felt almost like a buddy cop movie with partners that have been together way to long.

And yeah, Reedus had an excellent episode. That exchange with Diana made me giggle a bit too.

As for Jesus, yeah, I can see Daryl having an issue at first. He's not used to people not considering him dangerous (though Negan's gang found that out the hard way). And Jesus barely recognizing him as a threat probably irked him.

"Don't make threats you can't back up"-Daryl
"Exactly"-Jesus

Was pretty great.