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I liked the episode quite a bit. Quite different from anything they've done before. Something that Talking Dead pointed out that I hadn't thought about in regards to their military movements is that they've now had 2+ months of peace time for Abraham and Rosita (both with military training) and Rick (policy training) to polish skills and teach new ones for the newer people to keep things like what happened with the wolves from happening again.

I agree that I feel like Carol is nearing the end of her arc similar to Hershel and Tyreese. I hope she gets a meaningful death (likely saving Maggie) as she's a first seasoner (and then there were 4) and deserves to go out like a champ after how awesome that character has been played for the last 6 years.

Glad to see Alicia Witt was cast at least as something. She was awesome in Justified and the show can always use more strong woman (especially if Carol eats it).

I see Morgan getting caught trying to save Carol & Maggie. Carol going down so that Maggie escapes. Morgan meeting Lucille. That feels like the way this should play out. Maybe with Abraham going down at some point during the war doing something truly heroic. I honestly kinda hope he makes it and they kill off someone else. His comments are gold, I love the character, and poor Sasha needs to stop losing people she's in love with.

Thought it was an okay episode, but I have to admit I didn't pay attention too much.

Was it explained why the severed heads didn't zombify?

Daryl taking an arrow to the head instead of you know who would be ironic.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Thought it was an okay episode, but I have to admit I didn't pay attention too much.

Was it explained why the severed heads didn't zombify?

They were killed zombies who's heads they had chopped off. No one in the "modern" world is going to question a hole in the jaw or side of the head that kills the brain so it wasn't brought up. They just had to keep the face recognizable.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I think Lucille will definitely happen, but it'll probably involve somebody else. I mean, come on, it was a notorious moment from the comics that cannot possibly be omitted.

I don't think anyone has even suggested that's not happening - just that it might not be happening to who it happened to in the comics is all!

I mean, even if someone thought that Lucille wasn't...happening, last night's Polaroid Moment(s) pretty much confirmed that it is...happening.

I'm with Gorgon though (!), I think...

So do I, actually. It ties in nicely with the whole Rick-Morgan philosophical conflict and Negan's eventual fate.

If they're ever going to kill Daryl off, I think it'll involve an arrow...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


If they're ever going to kill Daryl off, I think it'll involve an arrow...

I think you're just wishlisting there...

It is going to be very, very hard for them to even pull that particular trigger.

Yeah, I don't see them pulling the trigger on two season 1 people in 4 episodes. As it stands we're only sitting at 5 from season 1 and one from season 2. Everyone else has been around far less time. Of those 6 people the only one who's path feels complete is Carol.

Carl and Rick aren't going anywhere ever. They are the story.

Maggie is preggers and I don't see them killing off the pregnant lady.

Kirkman is on record saying he was ok killing comic Glenn off because he had TV Glenn. And we've got Glenn's new emotional trauma of being killer of men to work thru now.

Daryl is THE fan favorite. The only one close is Michonne and that's because of the comics. I can't imagine he's going anywhere.

I'm personally hoping we get more out of Aaron but I worry that his happier attitude and outlook and general upbeat, almost jokey style are redundant with the way they are playing Jesus. I feel like he could get the hammer.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


If they're ever going to kill Daryl off, I think it'll involve an arrow...

I think you're just wishlisting there...

It is going to be very, very hard for them to even pull that particular trigger.

Which is why I said "if they ever kill him off". I know its unlikely, but I'm just saying this Season would be the opportune moment to kill him off if the actor wants out or the producers decide his character has come to the end of his natural character arc.

I don't think they'll ever kill Daryl.

Even if Reedus wants off the show, 'Daryl' will just...ride off into the sunset, ultimate fate unknown!

Plus I don't see Reedus wanting out before the show's run is done anyway.

Yeah, the way everyone on the cast talks about it the only way to get rid of people is to kill them off on the show. No one seems to want out for other projects. Granted, if they want to their is plenty of time to do something else while doing this show.

So was it just me or was that raid super crappy? No scouting, no hitting patrols, just go in at night and hope it works. Oh, and let's bring our only pregnant member and have her part of a two person rearguard. Seriously? As a former LEO, Rick would no doubt have been involved in raids/searches/warrant execution where everything is mapped out as much as possible. Uncertainty = danger.

Luckily, it pretty much worked, but they have no idea if this is just an outpost (which I think is highly likely- looks like just a weed farm and depot) and there are still plenty of Negan's group left. And Carol may get the bat.

 jmurph wrote:
So was it just me or was that raid super crappy? No scouting, no hitting patrols, just go in at night and hope it works. Oh, and let's bring our only pregnant member and have her part of a two person rearguard. Seriously? As a former LEO, Rick would no doubt have been involved in raids/searches/warrant execution where everything is mapped out as much as possible. Uncertainty = danger.

Luckily, it pretty much worked, but they have no idea if this is just an outpost (which I think is highly likely- looks like just a weed farm and depot) and there are still plenty of Negan's group left. And Carol may get the bat.

They were on a time crunch because of the hostage. They didn't have time to do super thorough recon on the location because they weren't going to hand them Gregory's head and they didn't want the prisoner to die. Plus that head was their quick and quiet way in. They did show them mapping it as much as possible.

And Maggie has the right to make her own decisions. And the "rear" guard was actually decently sized just spread out. And in this world when do you think people like Maggie (only a few months pregnant) and Carol can't handle themselves?

In a perfect world they would watch a delivery, maybe slip someone onto the entry. Daryl would scout everything around the location. Personally I think they also gave the Hilltop people to much credit because Rick's group would have scouted (done it before) and made sure it was the location to hit. They aren't used to dealing with potentially multiple locations for gangs and Hilltop acted like this was the place.

 jmurph wrote:
Luckily, it pretty much worked, but they have no idea if this is just an outpost (which I think is highly likely- looks like just a weed farm and depot) and there are still plenty of Negan's group left. And Carol may get the bat.

I think it was not just an outpost, but a satellite location.

ba dump ching.

Yeah really good episode, leaves lots of questions, everyone is wondering who gets




This looks like quite the satellite base with the ending really hammers home that rick and crew seem to have bitten off more then they can chew.

I'm feeling pretty confident about my choices, but I think Tara is also at risk and my confidence level with Maggie -- while still generally high -- isn't 100%.

 Hulksmash wrote:

And Maggie has the right to make her own decisions. And the "rear" guard was actually decently sized just spread out. And in this world when do you think people like Maggie (only a few months pregnant) and Carol can't handle themselves?

Sure, she has that right. She is also being groomed as the new #2, so she should be thinking bigger picture, though. I know she didn't want Glen going out alone, but he has proven more than capable of getting out of tough scrapes, and he is not carrying their baby. Maggie and Carol, like anyone else, can't handle themselves when badly outgunned and outnumbered. As happened in the episode.

Regardless, somebody has to get captured for plot reasons, so I guess it doesn't matter. The head scheme was pretty clever, though. I also liked that Glen took a moment to look at the bash pics on the wall. Nice little nod to the comic there.

What is baffling to me is that some reviews are panning the group as somehow descending to bad guy levels. Sure, knifing dudes in their sleep seems pretty cold. But then you remember that these are these same ones that will happily kill someone in their path to make a point, and would gladly gun down the Alexandria group, and it seems slightly less disturbing. Hard world and all that.

It was definitely a scene that painted Rick's crew in a while new light. Major turning point in them.

It was definitely a dark turn for the group, even if it's a dark show. It's a step or two beyond their usual MO, and I don't know how anyone watching the show could think otherwise.

I mean, the Saviors are what they are, but their goal isn't to go in and wipe out communities in their sleep. They want to work with you...on their terms.

 gorgon wrote:
It was definitely a dark turn for the group, even if it's a dark show. It's a step or two beyond their usual MO, and I don't know how anyone watching the show could think otherwise.

I mean, the Saviors are what they are, but their goal isn't to go in and wipe out communities in their sleep. They want to work with you...on their terms.

They beat a 16 year old resident of the Hilltop to death as a way of introducing themselves.
They terrorize communities with a protection racket, extorting them into handing over their supplies putting them at risk of starvation.
One of the bikers was going to kill Sascha, Abraham and Daryl on a whim.
Their leader is a psychopath and fanboys in the gang keep Polaroids of his handywork.


The Saviours want slave labourers, and will kill you for resisting. Rick and co. eliminate people that they know to be a threat, but are willing to peacefully deal and trade with friendly groups. The idea that Rick and co. are somehow worse than the Saviours is ridiculous.

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't think they'll ever kill Daryl.

Even if Reedus wants off the show, 'Daryl' will just...ride off into the sunset, ultimate fate unknown!

Plus I don't see Reedus wanting out before the show's run is done anyway.

He's already working on a new show 'Ride With Norman Reedus'. So he might not be as safe as everyone wants him to be.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jmurph wrote:


Regardless, somebody has to get captured for plot reasons, so I guess it doesn't matter. The head scheme was pretty clever, though. I also liked that Glen took a moment to look at the bash pics on the wall. Nice little nod to the comic there.

I'd say that was some foreshadowing going on, it was about as subtle as a baseball bat to the head

 gorgon wrote:
It was definitely a dark turn for the group, even if it's a dark show. It's a step or two beyond their usual MO, and I don't know how anyone watching the show could think otherwise.

I mean, the Saviors are what they are, but their goal isn't to go in and wipe out communities in their sleep. They want to work with you...on their terms.

I think the offensive can be justified. They already were almost robbed/killed by some of their biker gang outriders. They witnessed one of the Hilltoppers try to assassinate his own leader by using a hostage scheme and basically Rick believes Jesus & co that they are bad dudes.

Don't get me wrong it was still a dark turn and the Alexandrians are "profiting" in this mercenary work as well.

Pretty good episode - a little drawn out in places but good.

My friend now has put Abraham at the top of her S**t list for the "I was only with you because I thought you were the last woman on earth and turns out you aren't"

Impressed with the covert ops abilities the people have developed - even non main cast.

Love Negan in the comic but it would be fun if they have been using disinformation and the real Negan in this world is the redhead apparently calling the shots...........maybe with a front man.....

great nights tv - new episodes of Black Sails, Vikings and Walking dead - just need Vamprie Diaries and Originals to come back on UK tv,

Love Negan in the comic but it would be fun if they have been using disinformation and the real Negan in this world is the redhead apparently calling the shots...........maybe with a front man.....

God no, I hope not. Negan was a fantastic charismatic character in the comics, and

Switching genders worked for Deanna Monroe, because in the comics the spouse (the wife) was a very minor and uninteresting character. But in the show they switched genders, making the wife the Congresswoman and the husband an architect. Both characters were interesting and important in the show.

But that just won't work with Negan.

I'd much rather this new redhead be a completely original character like Daryl, the ruthless right hand of Negan (he doens't really have a right hand in the comics).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It was definitely a dark turn for the group, even if it's a dark show. It's a step or two beyond their usual MO, and I don't know how anyone watching the show could think otherwise.

I mean, the Saviors are what they are, but their goal isn't to go in and wipe out communities in their sleep. They want to work with you...on their terms.

They beat a 16 year old resident of the Hilltop to death as a way of introducing themselves.
They terrorize communities with a protection racket, extorting them into handing over their supplies putting them at risk of starvation.
One of the bikers was going to kill Sascha, Abraham and Daryl on a whim.
Their leader is a psychopath and fanboys in the gang keep Polaroids of his handywork.


The Saviours want slave labourers, and will kill you for resisting. Rick and co. eliminate people that they know to be a threat, but are willing to peacefully deal and trade with friendly groups. The idea that Rick and co. are somehow worse than the Saviours is ridiculous.

Well then, it's a good thing that's not what I said.

For all their many sins, the Saviors DO NOT make per-emptive kill strikes against communities. That defeats everything Negan is trying to accomplish. What's more, Rick and company did that for COMPENSATION. Sure, he made it sound like defense was the reason in his speech to the Alexandrians, but what was the truth he told his crew?

"This is how we eat."

Killing in exchange for supplies then. Sounds familiar. And was benevolent Rick going to leave the Hilltop peacefully without supplies? We know that he wasn't because he said as much. He was strong arming the Hilltop. That sounds familiar too.

Dealing with Rick's crew is clearly an improvement over Negan for the Hilltop. But that doesn't mean that Rick and co. are acting in a noble fashion right now. They're down in the muck too.

This is a Ricktatorship !

And I believe Abraham or Carol will be gone next EPISODE !!!!
Carol would sacrifice herself for Maggie and Lucille will do her thing.
And her doing the whole "KILL STAT" sheet kinda has her in a downing funk.
And all Glenn's close calls may just be a teaser for comic readers who are saying he is gone....


BUT like always... who knows whats coming next and they may throw us another huge curve ball

IS IT SUNDAY YET !!!


ps... what if Darryl is really the father of Maggie's baby ?!?

Actually I don't think we'll see Negan and Lucille till the finale.

No one is getting a bat until April 3rd...

Well Someone will die before Lucille shows her ugly face !!

 gorgon wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
It was definitely a dark turn for the group, even if it's a dark show. It's a step or two beyond their usual MO, and I don't know how anyone watching the show could think otherwise.

I mean, the Saviors are what they are, but their goal isn't to go in and wipe out communities in their sleep. They want to work with you...on their terms.

They beat a 16 year old resident of the Hilltop to death as a way of introducing themselves.
They terrorize communities with a protection racket, extorting them into handing over their supplies putting them at risk of starvation.
One of the bikers was going to kill Sascha, Abraham and Daryl on a whim.
Their leader is a psychopath and fanboys in the gang keep Polaroids of his handywork.

The Saviours want slave labourers, and will kill you for resisting. Rick and co. eliminate people that thy know to be a threat, but are willing to peacefully deal and trade with friendly groups. The idea that Rick and co. are somehow worse than the Saviours is ridiculous.

Well then, it's a good thing that's not what I said.

For all their many sins, the Saviors DO NOT make per-emptive kill strikes against communities. That defeats everything Negan is trying to accomplish. What's more, Rick and company did that for COMPENSATION. Sure, he made it sound like defense was the reason in his speech to the Alexandrians, but what was the truth he told his crew?

"This is how we eat."

Killing in exchange for supplies then. Sounds familiar. And was benevolent Rick going to leave the Hilltop peacefully without supplies? We know that he wasn't because he said as much. He was strong arming the Hilltop. That sounds familiar too.

Dealing with Rick's crew is clearly an improvement over Negan for the Hilltop. But that doesn't mean that Rick and co. are acting in a noble fashion right now. They're down in the muck too.

All good points - Rick has currently the same attitude to hilltop as he had to Alexandria - what was it he said on arrival at Alex - "we can always just take it off them or something similar." At the Hilltop he said - either they trade or we take it IIRC?

It could have been intersting if there had been any obvious non combatants at the Saviour outpost and how they would have handled it.............

The TV Saviours are all being portrayed as the same sort of highly unpleasent guys that Daryl met whilst chashing after Beth....the red head appears to be much more in control and effective - whether she is Negan or Negans go to gal........or the reverse.

It was amusing how few people went to the meeting with Rick - pretty much just the main cast.........

I can't see them killing Morgan - mainly because who would care? If you are doing the bit with the bat and lets face I can;t see anythig less happening given that Rick and co have just slaughtered 20-30 of the Saviours guys it needs to be someone you will miss.....

Oh and its good to see that at the end of the world - there are a few people still taking the time to mow the grass everywhere Good fellows!