Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think Gregory is actually Negan! And Jesus only thinks he's on the side of good (gonna be a mind-feth for him when he finds out). The actor cast as Negan? A false direction. And the saviors killed probably tried to betray Negan who was hiding in the open. He sent Rick and crew after them as a lesson.

Yakface's views on the midseason opener were very similar to mine so I won't rehash them. And honestly, the first half of this season was terrible in my opinion.

But this show has come roaring back and I'm enjoying immensely. I was gonna try to save it all to the end and binge it, but I had couple friends tell me basically "just give it another shot" and I'm glad I did. Really, really enjoying it.

So far the only glaring plot hole I've seen is Deanna's zombiefied corpse. Last we saw, she was upstairs in a house, surrounded by zombies, and she finished her revolver on the ones coming through the door instead of herself with a stupid scream. And yet her totally unmarred face and neck is somehow wandering outside the fence.

Totally small potatoes compared to the first half of the season and I can't wait for more goodness.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I think Gregory is actually Negan! And Jesus only thinks he's on the side of good (gonna be a mind-feth for him when he finds out). The actor cast as Negan? A false direction. And the saviors killed probably tried to betray Negan who was hiding in the open. He sent Rick and crew after them as a lesson.

Not sure if serious...but sure you're seriously wrong!

Awww, that red head was a great actor and I thought might make a good secondary main-ish character for neegans crew.

Oh well, dont get too attached!


At this point, with all the hype up to who gets the baseball bat, I almost think that it could be a neat twist to not actually have it happen!


If it does happen, please be morgan.

 Alpharius wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I think Gregory is actually Negan! And Jesus only thinks he's on the side of good (gonna be a mind-feth for him when he finds out). The actor cast as Negan? A false direction. And the saviors killed probably tried to betray Negan who was hiding in the open. He sent Rick and crew after them as a lesson.

Not sure if serious...but sure you're seriously wrong!

Any reason that couldn't happen? Clearly Negan and his crew are seriously in favor of misdirection. What greater misdirection could there be?

It would be a waste of one of the more interesting (if too drawn out) storylines from the book, not to mention Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

Gregory is actually...Gregory.

The whole storyline so far with Hilltop and the Saviors demanding...Gregory's head?

Logic dictates that your version of events just won't be happening.

Though sure, I could absolutely be wrong!

 easysauce wrote:
Awww, that red head was a great actor and I thought might make a good secondary main-ish character for neegans crew.

Look her up on IMDB.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
It would be a waste of one of the more interesting (if too drawn out) storylines from the book, not to mention Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

Gregory is actually...Gregory.

The whole storyline so far with Hilltop and the Saviors demanding...Gregory's head?

Logic dictates that your version of events just won't be happening.

Though sure, I could absolutely be wrong!

"They'll never expect I'll threaten a guy with his brother's life so he'll go try and kill me!"

 Alpharius wrote:
It would be a waste of one of the more interesting (if too drawn out) storylines from the book, not to mention Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

Gregory is actually...Gregory.

The whole storyline so far with Hilltop and the Saviors demanding...Gregory's head?

Logic dictates that your version of events just won't be happening.

Though sure, I could absolutely be wrong!

Theres also the fact that the guards at the Satellite Array outpost were completely at ease. They weren't nervous traitors trying to orchestrate the murder of a leader known for his cunning and brutality.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Watching tonight but

Well, where I come from, "good guys" don't traditionally launch sneak attacks to murder people in their sleep. Those particular Saviors hadn't even done anything to cross Rick and company. There's really nothing redeeming about their actions in this case, even on a relative scale.

Isn't that exactly what special forces troops do? I have no problem with it - they were just (orky style)and getting their retaliation in first

.

That's how I justified the previous episode but this episode ends with Rick just straight up executing an unarmed prisoner. If this is an armed conflict then that's a war crime. We have to admit if any other group did that to one of the gang we would all consider that person a villain.

You will also notice that execution did not seem to sit well with members of the group, notably Carol.

We will see how they handle it, but it certainly was a brash instance of unnecessary brutality that seems to underscore Rick's growing callousness. (It also seems like a poor strategic move as he could have potentially been questioned, converted, offered as a future trade, etc.)

The difference between him and execution of a group member, of course is that we know the group are generally good guys and these guys generally aren't. Also, he wasn't a developed character, and mook executions never have the same effect as character deaths (see also Redshirt syndrome).

To be fair, the show has its own internal logic for why they don't let people live...it inevitably comes back to haunt them in a major way, no matter how improbable that might be.

Kinda like how they can't trust motor vehicles to not spontaneously break down at the absolute worst moments, although they seem to have moved beyond that in recent seasons.

I think part of the execution was because they can't allow anyone to get away who knows what happened (in case there are more). Part of it was also the way the guy started to act it didn't seem like recovery was part of his stick.

I also think it's interesting that there seems to be a mentality amongst Negan's group that makes it cult-like in their devotion to the idea. Similar to the wolves (and obviously more functional) but it's interesting how only a few of them seem to worry about dying and all of them seem to feel like they'll be avenged.

Carol is a really interesting character to me...

I may be off, but they've a few months of reprieve after the hoard attack in Alexandria... no? I only say this because at this point, Carl is up and walking around after being shot in the fething eye!

So, in that time, we see Carol getting somewhat acclimated to "domestictivity" (is that a word?), in that she's baking cookies... sharing with her neighbors... smootching that one dude.

Then, this last episode, "Carol 'da Terminator™" all of the sudden has some regret? remorse??? At first, I thought it was an act because she was captured (and snatched that rosary)...

But, when Maggie's "baby bun oven" get's slashed, Carol acted in Terminator fashion immediately... but, you could *see* the anguish in her face.

It's like, she fell into the trap of the pre-Apocalypse world for a while, and that the reality of the current situation comes hauntingly clear outside of Alexandria. The reality is simply this:
It's all about survival.

There are no good/bad guys... really.

You just do what needs to be done to survive.

 whembly wrote:
The reality is simply this:
It's all about survival.

There are no good/bad guys... really.

You just do what needs to be done to survive.

Well...right. Which is what the character has been doing the past few seasons, all at the cost of her soul. That's the problem. What good is survival if it means doing those kinds of deeds and becoming that kind of person?

Maggie's at the same point. Morgan learned this a while back. And heck, the whole crew was just about at that point before they found Alexandria. When you look at it that way, they could be setting Carol up for an ending like in the comic. But I don't think they'll go that route just because it'd end her arc in what could be seen as a moment of weakness, and the character deserves better.

Anyway, my new thought for the day is....

There is a 2 month time gap between No Way Out and The Next World.

 Hulksmash wrote:


I also think it's interesting that there seems to be a mentality amongst Negan's group that makes it cult-like in their devotion to the idea. Similar to the wolves (and obviously more functional) but it's interesting how only a few of them seem to worry about dying and all of them seem to feel like they'll be avenged.

It could be out of fear to. Everyone seems to say they're Negan automatically and quickly as if they are being tested. Perhaps Negan has groups of thugs that go out and make sure everyone says they are Negan. It could be a requirement for being in their "nation". This group of people may have thought Rick's gang of killers were actually Neganites testing them.

I just caught up on the recent series tonight. As usual I thoroughly enjoyed it, from the breakout via zombie guts to the attack on Negans group (really well done imo).
I hope Carol regains her mojo, I thought she was playing weak wolf for the last episode but then did the dirty; but at the end you see her break down again. Always loved her stoicism and resolves Vs some of the other (weaker characters) and hope this isnt a trend into "abused carol" ala series 3 :(

Love Jesus too (sneaky ninja guy), he could become a great character if they play him out

If it's anything like the comics, there isn't any cultlike behavior at work.

Negan just rules with an IRON fist. (Right, Dwight?)

Negan is Alpharius

Well I did not see that coming. Usually they telegraph the deaths a little too much but not this one, definately surprised me.

Same here!

I thought Abraham was going to get Abrahamed - until Denise did!

The loss of their 'doctor' is going to hurt...

"We're gonna manufacture bullets here".

Told y'all Eugene haters he'd start proving his worth soon enough.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

"We're gonna manufacture bullets here".

Told y'all Eugene haters he'd start proving his worth soon enough.

he really bit the bullet on this episode

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here!

I thought Abraham was going to get Abrahamed - until Denise did!

The loss of their 'doctor' is going to hurt...

Yeah, they definitely gave the comics fans the ol' switcheroo on that one. So is that a hint that another big switcheroo is on the way? Or are they trying to throw the comics fans off and have things proceed as in the comic?

The Alpha Legion might be writing the show at this point...

Carol leaving makes perfect sense...although it's not what I expected. Kinda seems like it's headed for another Terminus situation.

I also thought it was a interestingly-shot episode.

On the face of it, it looks like they're setting up Carol for the encounter with Lucille. But a Terminus re-run with Carol coming to the rescue would be fun.

yeah, over all this was an episode that lacked the visual excitement of a lot of the other episodes, but It made up for it in character/plot development, which is needed to keep the pace changing.


They did a really good job of showing how time is passing and people are adapting.

Carol leaving will come back to save or haunt the group, the DR wont be missed much i think, I really hope abraham stays alive permanently as I hated how he just died in the comics.

Abraham is, oddly, turning into one of the stress relief characters of the series. It's something they don't have much of and his relationship with Eugene really only highlights it. How many other characters would apologize by telling Eugene he sure knows how to bite a dick? I love Abraham and his attitude so I'm hoping he doesn't go anywhere anytime soon.

I was terrified for Daryl thinking he had been captured and was going to get the bat for a few seconds there but it's still shaping up for Carol to get it. So while she can't kill for people anymore maybe she can still die for them.

I really enjoyed the episode. And the last shots were amazing.

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here!

I thought Abraham was going to get Abrahamed - until Denise did!

The loss of their 'doctor' is going to hurt...

Ironically, it was the most true to the comic death in the entire series.....except the part were it was somebody totally different.

Even more so because she's supposed to have a "special ability" (Doctor) like Eugene that I figured made her untouchable for story purposes.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here!

I thought Abraham was going to get Abrahamed - until Denise did!

The loss of their 'doctor' is going to hurt...

Ironically, it was the most true to the comic death in the entire series.....except the part were it was somebody totally different.

Even more so because she's supposed to have a "special ability" (Doctor) like Eugene that I figured made her untouchable for story purposes.

Maybe eventually the Hilltop's crew (and doc) would smerge with Alexandria.

 whembly wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here!

I thought Abraham was going to get Abrahamed - until Denise did!

The loss of their 'doctor' is going to hurt...

Ironically, it was the most true to the comic death in the entire series.....except the part were it was somebody totally different.

Even more so because she's supposed to have a "special ability" (Doctor) like Eugene that I figured made her untouchable for story purposes.

Maybe eventually the Hilltop's crew (and doc) would smerge with Alexandria.

Maybe, but I bet they just won't address the issue and people who get shot and stabbed will just walk it off TV Land style.