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 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
On the face of it, it looks like they're setting up Carol for the encounter with Lucille. But a Terminus re-run with Carol coming to the rescue would be fun.

I was thinking a crazy thought.

That would be weird given the reason she is leaving is because she doesn't want to kill for anyone anymore.

 Hulksmash wrote:
That would be weird given the reason she is leaving is because she doesn't want to kill for anyone anymore.

Yep. I said it was weird.

Been a while since I've been impatient for the next episode. Really liking how they're handling the Saviors so far-they're making them out to be more than just mooks.

That was a really difficult episode for me to watch/swallow. It felt way more like a cheesy horror movie where I spent half the time screaming at the characters on the screen to stop making such stupid decisions that were totally out of character with how they normally behave.

They did a good job setting up why Carol would want to leave, but last episode established that the Saviors know where Alexandria is. That means everyone there would believe that there is a high likelihood that *anybody* leaving those walls would be tracked and potentially ambushed if the group leaving is small enough.

So even though Carol is totally motivated to leave, it flies against everything we've known about her (good common sense) to put herself in a position where she will most likely be captured by the Saviors and then used to barter with her people (and a good chance of getting some of her friends killed in the process).

Then the idea Daryl would be so motivated to avenge Denise to ignore this fact as well? Followed by Glenn, Michonne & Rosita? And then Rick and Morgan?

Puhlease.

Only Morgan, of all those, has had the motivations shown to make such a stupid move.


Worst of all...why are the Saviors suddenly the absolute masters of stealth? More than Daryl even when he was specifically looking to sneak up on them?

I mean, WTH? There are a million ways they could have had that play out that ended up in the same place but didn't make the characters we have grown to know as being street smart (woods smart?) with good common sense suddenly turn into total doofuses.

And I'm not going to even comment on the stupid fake-out 'death' at the end. It seems pretty clear to me that they originally shot it to be another stupid cliffhanger and then someone watching it in the editing room mentioned that maybe yet *another* death fake-out this season probably wouldn't go over that well and they added that last line in to try to soften the stupid initial decision.

I just don't understand it. If they wanted the characters to behave this way (head out randomly into the wilderness) there was no real reason to say last episode that the Saviors knew where Alexandria was (they could have still just been looking for the place). That way it wouldn't be such a big slap in the face for all our heroes to randomly ride out in small groups into the wilderness.

And of course they could have still had the heroes get abducted by the Saviors by the end of the show without them all being surprised like chumps...there could have been a small firefight where they killed a few Saviors but then got overwhelmed by their numbers, for example.

Looked like Daryl was shot in the shoulder.

Agreed that this is another 'fake out death / not dead' scene - but hopefully this one gets resolved next episode.

Also agreed on how ridiculous the Savior Wood Ninja thing is right now.

Also, Rick and Co. are up, what, something like 50 to 1 on the Saviors?

Sheesh!

One of the executive producers on the show said on Talking Dead last night that we'll know what happened to Darryl next episode. Honestly, I can see the reason for shooting him the shoulder. The bad guy knows how dangerous he is and that doesn't count the fact that he escaped a similar situation earlier in the season, killed the dude holding him, and then proceeded to blow up yet more saviors with a rocket. A debilitating wound makes sense. Also makes escape by the others less reasonable as they'd have to haul a wounded Daryl.

That said Rick's leaving makes sense. He goes out because Carol, of all people outside of Michone and Carl, is family. That's the woman that made sure his baby made it thru after the prison fell and saved the rest of his family at terminus. She's also one of the few people Rick trusts implicitly.

Daryl's revenge makes sense to me. Remember Beth was kidnapped and that led to her death in his care (a blurred big brother role). He then tries to help people who turn on him and steal all his stuff. That dude later turns up to kill someone who obviously has taken under his care. Daryl is feeling the weight of failure (something he hasn't really dealt with on the show) and reacting slightly irrationally.

Rosita is feeling some of that responsibility but also probably wants to get the hell away from happy Abraham and Sasha. Glenn and Michonne (who are as efficient in the outside world as you could ask for outside of Daryl) tag along to keep family safe.

I kinda like the counter ambush at the end. I saw a dude making a fire and the prisoners and thought "Where is everyone else, seems to easy" and then it was. Bear in mind it would have been easy to get locked in a certain trail and a certain tell. And the fact the it's the same dudes group means they've been counter ambushed themselves and learned. Besides, we're still in Virginia. It isn't hard to imagine quite of a few people who made it thru and are out there bow hunt and know their way around the woods.

Overall I really liked the episode. Carol begging to not have to kill the Saviors was pretty great. Morgan coming around to not everyone having to do it his way was a nice change. I'm excited for next week even if I won't be able to watch it till Monday morning since I'll be driving home from Adepticon.

They're certainly keeping...

Yeah they really are doing a good job keeping everyone on their toes about who might die next!

At this point there are not many characters who could die without making an impact of some sort.

I really hope they continue to just kill off tertiary characters for a while though, I really do not want to lose any of the main characters.

Morgan I think is the best candidate for next in line to die (both in likely hood and my preferance) but I fear for Carol and Glenn.

Its possible Morgan and Carol will go AWOL next week, and that particular loose end will be a plot hook to be resolved in Season 7.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 easysauce wrote:
Yeah they really are doing a good job keeping everyone on their toes about who might die next!

At this point there are not many characters who could die without making an impact of some sort.

I really hope they continue to just kill off tertiary characters for a while though, I really do not want to lose any of the main characters.

No. For a show whose entire premise is survival, and how people grow and develop in extreme situations, they have to keep the stakes high, and they can't do that without actually killing off characters the audience cares about, to remind us that our "heroes" aren't invincible. That means one of the main characters - one of the core Atlanta 5, or some of the other core characters we've come to care about the most like Maggie, Abraham and Sasha.

Morgan I think is the best candidate for next in line to die (both in likely hood and my preferance) but I fear for Carol and Glenn.

Morgan would not be an adequate substitute, we just don't care enough (yet) for his death to be an emotional sucker punch. It has to be somebody we really care about, otherwise the show would not be doing the comics justice. The episode coming up is one of the THE biggest milestones in TWD, as important as The Governor beheading Tyreese/Hershel, or Dale/Bob being caught and eaten by the cannibals. You do not introduce THE greatest and most charismatic villain TWD has ever known (and probably will ever know) by having him kill a minor character instead.

It has to be either:

Rick
Carl
Daryl
Carol
Glenn
Maggie
Abraham
Sasha
Michonne
Or maybe Rosita.

My money is on Carol - they're clearly building up to something big for her - ether death, or permanent self imposed exile (I can see her wandering off into the sunset).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rick and Carl are safe for the foreseeable future.
Rick is the core protagonist, and Andrew Lincoln is the lead actor. They won't kill him off for at least another 2 or 3 seasons I think - he's got a long way to go, and a lot of comic book material and character development to get through.



They won't kill Carl off for a very long time if ever. Carl I think is being groomed to become Rick's successor. If they ever want to kill Rick off, or Andrew Lincoln wants to leave the show, Carl will become much more prominent and the new de facto protagonist. He's being exposed to and influenced by several different world views - Rick, Negan and the Whisperers. He's basically the young protege.

They won't kill Abraham off so soon after faking us out, and swapping him for Denise. Next season perhaps.
Michonne is now Andrea for all intents and purposes.
Maggie is safe. She's back in Alexandria, probably suffering a miscarriage.
They've been foreshadowing and trolling us with Glenn that he's almost certainly safe.
Daryl is a possibility, but he's just been shot by Dwight. Either he's already dead (in which case two deaths for next episode), or he's going to avoid the bat.

Oh, I think Morgan is a leading candidate. If he's the one to meet a certain lady, it works *beautifully* to inform the decision Rick makes down the road...AND the action taken thereafter. It's an improvement upon the comic in that regard, because it gives Rick a clearer basis for making that decision.

You can have Morgan meet the lady and still get an ample gut punch for the episode...it just requires more to happen. And they have 90 minutes to fill. Wouldn't it be a horrible twist if...

Thats true. By this point in the comics, they'd only run into that one patrol, and killed just a handful of Saviours (the bikers that Daryl blows up). There was no raid on a Saviour outpost in the comics prior to Negan.

I know - I'm not kidding when I say they've probably killed 50 Saviors at this point.

I'm not sure how big a group TV Saviors are going to be, but it is looking to be a lot bigger than Comics Saviors - and by a large margin too.

It seems like people expect the show to mirror the comics, but the truth is the more it progresses, the less and less like the comics it becomes.

There doesnt even have to be a single casualty, or more likely, they might just end up losing more then one person in the initial encounter with neegan.

Some very big differences right now between the two narratives

Actually the "Knights" weren't introduced until after Negan made his appearence. IIRC. The show is not deviating from the comics in that regard.


Daryl did not exist in the comics at all, never mind lacking a connection with Dwight.

Its not deviating from the comics at all on that count, either. Rather, they're just adding to and embellishing on it.


The show is actually following the comics fairly closely once again. Not in the details, like exactly who dies and when, but rather the overall arc. There are still the same major events, but the show switches it around a lot, killing off character B in Character A's place, bringing a particular event forward in the timeline or postponing it until later, merging characters together or killing off a character early and splitting the rest of that character's arc between multiple characters (killing Andrea early and splitting her parts between Michonne and Sasha).

Season 1 and 2 were big deviations. Season 3 and 4 up until the point when the prison fell had a lot of original material and storylines to fill the season out, but the overall arc was roughly the same. And again in the latest season, we're seeing the same events from the comics, just mixed around a bit and characters swapped to keep readers guessing.

Its actually a pretty good adaptation. A better adaptation than Game of Thrones, certainly. (a show I also love but is quickly becoming unrecognisable).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Daryl did not exist in the comics at all, never mind lacking a connection with Dwight.

Spoiler:

The reason they had Daryl encounter Dwight early was a origin story of sorts for Dwight, explaining how his face came to be burned by Negan as a punishment for trying to desert the Saviours with his wife; and giving an early indication of his motivations. Dwight was always a reluctant member of Negan's gang, and having him encoutner Daryl showed us why on screen.

I though Negan only

Yes. Negan
The show expands on this by having Dwight and Sherry make an escape attempt. Thats when they run into Daryl, and decide to rob him because they're desperate to escape Negan's clutches. As I said, the show is not so much deviating from the comics here as it is embellishing.

That only makes sense if you look at the characters as archetypes rather then new identities that have superficial similarities to their doppelgangers from the comics.

Ie ricks relationship with andrea vs michonne, sure you could argue michonne is just copy pasted into that role due to superficial similarities, but its actually a huge deviation from the story in the comics. It has very far reaching implications, and I really think we only have broad superficial similarities between the comic and show at this point.

Saying that the differences are only in details is like saying a glass of water is similar to a glass of milk because the only difference being only what is contained in the container, making the container what is important rather then the content.

In much the same way, the large things that hold the story together (zombies happened, there is a group with rick, they survive things, they find the prison, the farm, alexandria, neegan, big things that contain the story stay the same) but the small things like ricks hand, the heavily modded governor arc, who is alive vs dead, who is doing what and with whom, all has changed significantly.

There is also a lot of things behind the scenes that are different, the writer will be much less willing to kill off "MAIN" main characters then in the comics. The plot armour that rick and carl have in the books is extended to a lot of people in the show it wasnt on in the comics.

My money is still on morgan getting killed in the scene we all predict, likely to save carol or someone else.

runners up being carol, sasha, or abraham.

Then there is always the chance it is glenn, which I just hope wont happen, they keep tugging at us on that one

(the scene where he watches maggie in the side view mirror had a very last look-esque appeal to it, probably a fake out, but who knows!)

Personally I've never been that invested in Glenn. He just survives things, and that's about it(granted I skipped seasons 2 and 3 and a lot of 4 I think, so there may have been some development I missed).

I wouldn't be sad to see him go to bat.

Yes, I'm talking about the macro scale, the bigger picture. You're nitpicking over details, the micro scale. Of course the details are different, events are happening to different people, people die at different times and in different ways, characters are merged and split. But overall the show is still following the rough path laid out by the comics, which I'm mostly satisfied with.

As for Michonne and Rick...that's not really as much of a deviation as you might think. Michonne is being substituted for Andrea, and Rick is probably being substituted for E. Of course that means the nature of their relationship is going to be different, but they're still checking off the major milestones from the comics.

Its a long, long way off yet but when this conflict with the saviours is resolved, I expect she'll still

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Personally I've never been that invested in Glenn. He just survives things, and that's about it(granted I skipped seasons 2 and 3 and a lot of 4 I think, so there may have been some development I missed).

I wouldn't be sad to see him go to bat.

I'm curious, who is everyone's favorite character?

In the book I would say Rick hands down, the show Glenn or Daryll.

Comics.
Rick, Negan, Andrea, Carl, Eugene.

Show:Rick, Daryl, carol, Michonne, Carl.

In that order.


Yes Negan is my second favorite character.

Comics-
Triple A:
Andrea. Abraham.
Show-
Daryl, Carol, Abraham.

I wonder why they spoiled their own cliffhanger? I guess they figured the fans would lynch them...

May not have tested well with early screenings, so they added that last bit in.

They do that with TV shows? Thought that was more of a movie thing.

Glenn's 'fakeout death' was...not well received.

So, maybe they're trying to have it both ways?

Calling it now-


Any other bets?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Calling it now-

Spoiler:

Glenn gets the bat. Carol gets together with Ezekiel(eventually). Maggie loses the baby.

Any other bets?

Agree, disagree, unsure.