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 jmurph wrote:
I do hope the Kingdom isn't as derpy as it looks. So far, the previews with the pads and tigers looks more likely to make me chuckle than anything. How a bunch of goofs in sports pads don't get scooped up by Negan's folks is a mystery....

To be fair...that's fairly true to the comics. The Kingdom IS kinda derpy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamereth wrote:
For me this season picked up where the last one left off, with an overwhelming feeling of get the F on with it.

The whole episode I was just left wondering why nobody was doing anything. Why would Abhrams, a military guy, just sit there while a guy swings a bat at his head? S*** I could have dealt with Negan if put in that situation.

How many chances did rick have to bury that axe in Negans face?

Just argh, what's wrong with them. It's just frustrating to watch. Why did this one scene take up 2 whole episodes. What did we learn, Negan is a bad guy. Join the queue, everyone we meet in the series is. Can we do something new and interesting now?

They were surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned and disarmed. Negan made perfectly clear that more people would die if anyone interfered, and made good on that threat. They had a choice of making a futile attempt to intervene and killing EVERYBODY in the process, or submitting.

Negan was trying to teach them a lesson: submit or die. They failed to learn that lesson, and Glenn died for it. Clearly you're struggling to learn it too if you think there was anything they could have possibly done They were doomed the moment they were surrounded in the clearing.

Abraham knew he was sacrificing himself, taking one for the team so none of his friends have to die...(about that...thanks Daryl!).

Rick was the slowest to learn the lesson of all of them. It required threatening his son to truly break him.

I think the point is Negan is the one keeping that group together. If Rick had steeped out of that RV with a rifle in one hand and Negan head with an axe in his face in the other.....

More over when rick is on the ground with an axe in his hand, and Negan was drawing the line across Carl's arm, 99% of people would have swung that axe at Negan.

Self preservation is a hard instinct to overcome, just sitting there and taking a bat to the head is completely unnatural. There's a reason people committing suicide don't just hold themselves underwater in the bath.

If that was me and my friends I can't envision the scene playing out the way it did, it went against the natural reaction of people, and it breaks the emersion. Would me and my friends have gotten ourselves killed?, well that's a different discussion.

 Tamereth wrote:
I think the point is Negan is the one keeping that group together. If Rick had steeped out of that RV with a rifle in one hand and Negan head with an axe in his face in the other.....

More over when rick is on the ground with an axe in his hand, and Negan was drawing the line across Carl's arm, 99% of people would have swung that axe at Negan.

Self preservation is a hard instinct to overcome, just sitting there and taking a bat to the head is completely unnatural. There's a reason people committing suicide don't just hold themselves underwater in the bath.

If that was me and my friends I can't envision the scene playing out the way it did, it went against the natural reaction of people, and it breaks the emersion. Would me and my friends have gotten ourselves killed?, well that's a different discussion.

Not sure - people don't usually fight when they are executed - even when they have nothing to loose - its very rare.

I would agree the whole RV bit was filler.

It also comes across as inconsistent with similar previous portrayals, namely with Terminus and the guys trying to Deliverance Carl. So on the one hand, the groups is shown to be almost action movie like in ability to jump armed attackers, and in this one, they have to play submissive for dramatic effect. It calls back the same disconnect between the group operating like a pseudo commando team to eliminate Negan's forces, but then can't figure out to double back and wipe out roadblock forces (or even see them coming). Very incongruous. (And unnecessary since they could have just had them surround the group en masse, but I digress.)

I agree with Yak that it seems like they are really relying on heavy handed emotional manipulation at this point instead of coherent character and story development because they have kind of written themselves into some tight spots.

 jmurph wrote:
It also comes across as inconsistent with similar previous portrayals, namely with Terminus and the guys trying to Deliverance Carl. So on the one hand, the groups is shown to be almost action movie like in ability to jump armed attackers, and in this one, they have to play submissive for dramatic effect. It calls back the same disconnect between the group operating like a pseudo commando team to eliminate Negan's forces, but then can't figure out to double back and wipe out roadblock forces (or even see them coming). Very incongruous. (And unnecessary since they could have just had them surround the group en masse, but I digress.)

I agree with Yak that it seems like they are really relying on heavy handed emotional manipulation at this point instead of coherent character and story development because they have kind of written themselves into some tight spots.

For all my complaining, I gotta say the group's behavior when facing that situation isn't something I have any problem with...I thought it was rather believable given the circumstances and consistent with what I thought those characters would likely do in that situation.

It is quite a different situation from Terminus. In Terminus, everyone was going to be killed, no exceptions. Plus, there were significantly less guards in that room. Here, they were pretty much completely surrounded with dozens of armed guards, but more importantly (in my mind), they were being given a choice...a grisly choice, yes, but a choice none the less. They knew that there was a at least some chance that Negan was telling the truth and that if they let him kill one of the group, the rest would survive. Not only that, each person knew that if they were the one to attack, then they would be responsible for anything that happened beyond the single kill (ala what Daryl did).

So as horrible a predicament as they were in facing Negan, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as where they were in Terminus, where the whole group was simply going to be killed, without any options being given.

Tamereth wrote:I think the point is Negan is the one keeping that group together. If Rick had steeped out of that RV with a rifle in one hand and Negan head with an axe in his face in the other.....

More over when rick is on the ground with an axe in his hand, and Negan was drawing the line across Carl's arm, 99% of people would have swung that axe at Negan.

Self preservation is a hard instinct to overcome, just sitting there and taking a bat to the head is completely unnatural. There's a reason people committing suicide don't just hold themselves underwater in the bath.

If that was me and my friends I can't envision the scene playing out the way it did, it went against the natural reaction of people, and it breaks the emersion. Would me and my friends have gotten ourselves killed?, well that's a different discussion.

Again, Rick's (and everyone else's) behavior comes back to the fact that if you were to stand up and fight, you'd be causing more of the group to die. If Rick came out of that RV with Negan's head in his hands, there's no reason to think that the rest of the group wouldn't have followed out Negan's orders and killed every one of the group (including Carl) in front of Rick's face. I think the point of the whole episode is that there absolutely was ample places for Rick to take Negan out...or at the very least take him out at the cost of his own life (which I think he was gladly willing to give), but he absolutely couldn't, because taking Negan out would not somehow magically turn the Saviors into 'his' group...they would likely just kill his entire group in retribution.

 Tamereth wrote:
Would me and my friends have gotten ourselves killed?, well that's a different discussion.

Yes, you would have, and for nothing other than apparently your pride. But that can't happen on the show like that because then there wouldn't be a show, right?

And you call for realism, but expect that Negan's guys are going to bow to Rick and call him their leader if he ends Negan?

 gorgon wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
Would me and my friends have gotten ourselves killed?, well that's a different discussion.

Yes, you would have, and for nothing other than apparently your pride. But that can't happen on the show like that because then there wouldn't be a show, right?

And you call for realism, but expect that Negan's guys are going to bow to Rick and call him their leader if he ends Negan?

I do think Negan had to do something impressive to put them in their place as his force had suffered major casualties without loss to Ricks crew and that was going to cause rumblings with no serious payback. Probably some of Negans crew still thought that Rick and co got off easy.

"Hey they killed fifty of us and we just kill two of 'em...sheesh"

Hopefully the show will improve again and have less filler.

I was disappointed with the episode overall.
Thought there was very little tension in it, relying more on grisly beatings and Negans (imho very questionable "presence").
In hindsight I think they should have done the death/deaths at the end of last season and just got on with it for this one.
The whole 6 month break of theorising and speculation sort of ruined it for me.

I also feel a bit cheated that the only way Negan is breaking Rick is by removing the characters that would 100% stand up to him - especially Ab and Daryl (is he going to be locked in a box for this season?) and Glen who would fight to the end for Maggie/his kid.

Ho hum but on we go I suppose.

 Ratius wrote:
I was disappointed with the episode overall.
Thought there was very little tension in it, relying more on grisly beatings and Negans (imho very questionable "presence").
In hindsight I think they should have done the death/deaths at the end of last season and just got on with it for this one.
The whole 6 month break of theorising and speculation sort of ruined it for me.

I also feel a bit cheated that the only way Negan is breaking Rick is by removing the characters that would 100% stand up to him - especially Ab and Daryl (is he going to be locked in a box for this season?) and Glen who would fight to the end for Maggie/his kid.

Ho hum but on we go I suppose.

Well I think the first person he kills is perfect from Negan's perspective and ours. Abraham is obviously a soldier and Negan pegs him as Rick's right hand (incorrectly but a good guess). Killing the biggest and strongest sends a message on it's own and also allows him to let his people see him reducing the threat to them when he lets most of them off. Additionally it's one less person he has to "break". Because Abraham was never going to show fear or break to Negan and he knew that (or intuated it). Glenn he had no way of knowing how he'd act. He was just a dude close to Daryl so he beat him to death.

Oddly the people in Rick's group at least as likely as Abraham to fight back are the women. Maggie has always responded to being pushed with pushing back at the right time and we don't even need to cover Michone.

Honestly I wish the death had happened last season, that we hadn't had the silly break Rick side quest (though I enjoyed Negan and Rick it was still kinda pointless), and they hadn't killed Abraham simply because he was a bit of light in a pretty dark show. Hopefully Negan, Jesus, and maybe Aaron can make up for some of that lost levity but man, it's going to be hard to beat "Mother Dick" or "Dolphin Smooth" deliveries done by Abraham.

Oddly the people in Rick's group at least as likely as Abraham to fight back are the women. Maggie has always responded to being pushed with pushing back at the right time and we don't even need to cover Michone.

Thats fair comment. I dont follow the comics but have read bits n bobs saying Maggie starts to really come into her own as a warrior post Glen.
And Carol still has to come back

People are forgetting that Rick DID try to take Negan out, in the RV. But Negan pulled a gun on him.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Well I think the first person he kills is perfect from Negan's perspective and ours. Abraham is obviously a soldier and Negan pegs him as Rick's right hand (incorrectly but a good guess). Killing the biggest and strongest sends a message on it's own and also allows him to let his people see him reducing the threat to them when he lets most of them off. Additionally it's one less person he has to "break". Because Abraham was never going to show fear or break to Negan and he knew that (or intuated it). Glenn he had no way of knowing how he'd act. He was just a dude close to Daryl so he beat him to death.

Yeah, Lucille and some other stuff to come aside, Negan has a decent sense of how to read and manipulate people. Supposedly we'll see why that is onscreen this season.

Honestly I wish the death had happened last season, that we hadn't had the silly break Rick side quest (though I enjoyed Negan and Rick it was still kinda pointless), and they hadn't killed Abraham simply because he was a bit of light in a pretty dark show. Hopefully Negan, Jesus, and maybe Aaron can make up for some of that lost levity but man, it's going to be hard to beat "Mother Dick" or "Dolphin Smooth" deliveries done by Abraham.

The road trip with Negan and Rick had its moments, and conceptually it's kind of hilarious. But it felt like an odd interlude overall.

And I doubt we're going to see much levity this season. Maybe they'll work in some at the Kingdom, since that seems a little more insulated from current events as of now. Negan should give us plenty of chuckles, albeit really, really dark ones.

 Ratius wrote:
Thats fair comment. I dont follow the comics but have read bits n bobs saying Maggie starts to really come into her own as a warrior post Glen.
And Carol still has to come back

While true...I don't think Glenn had to die in order for that to happen. Doesn't matter though.

This episode wrapped it all up for me. Might as well been the series finale. Rick's will to lead breaks and his crew gets busted up and Maggie goes to Hilltop to join with the lead dude there.

The biggest and baddest group wins. Very apocalyptic I guess.

I'll pass on the "sucks to be a fan" direction of the show. There's enough suck in real life outside torture porn "entertainment ".

See, Byte, I don't view it as "torture porn". Hell, my favorite character just got turned into a pile of mushed ravioli. But for those of us who read the comics, we KNEW this moment was coming. For someone, at least. It had to be graphic, because the show is MUCH more popular than the comics, and the issue where Negan pulps his victim was THE milestone. If the show "pussied out", it would have lost more than it gained. It HAD to happen. And I don't think we'I'll quite see anything like this for quite a while. I just about puked when my favorite character took the bat for Daryl's "crime". But I am still going to continue. Even if the light has gone down.

Ya know...Glenn was the character I associated with best. He was the most human of the group, he was the nerd and the dork...he even married the farmer's daughter (I'm currently dating a farmer's daughter), so it's even more of a draw. And...it was rough watching it. VERY rough. Worst thing I've ever seen on cable. Let's face it...Negan is the worst villain on cable (discounts HBO and other pay-per-view shows' villains).

Negan has to be that bad, for it to matter the most when the heroes win out.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Honestly I wish the death had happened last season, that we hadn't had the silly break Rick side quest (though I enjoyed Negan and Rick it was still kinda pointless), and they hadn't killed Abraham simply because he was a bit of light in a pretty dark show. Hopefully Negan, Jesus, and maybe Aaron can make up for some of that lost levity but man, it's going to be hard to beat "Mother Dick" or "Dolphin Smooth" deliveries done by Abraham.

Totally agreed on both counts.

I'm completely convinced that:

Abraham was 'let' to live past where his death was in the comic so he'd be available to be killed by Negan, thereby throwing the audience off for Glenn's death. I think the showrunners were afraid that if Negan killed a 'not as popular' new person (Aaron, Eugene, Sasha, etc) first, then the audience wouldn't think that death was worth the 6-month post-finale 'build-up', so they'd be instantly wary and expecting something else bad to happen. Since they didn't want to kill off any of the other 'core' characters (Rick, Carl, Michonne, & Daryl) this way, it had to be Abraham, just to make sure Glenn's subsequent death was a complete shock to most viewers.

This kind of thinking being used to guide a show however, is sooooo problematic. It shows that the creators are becoming way less okay with having a big twist in the comic simply play out in the show anymore. Instead, they're actually considering the fact that because people have read the comic, things that should be shocking to a TV audience, might not be, and they're twisting and contorting their stories to try to get the shocking twist back in there and play off of people's expectations from the comic book. This is the tail wagging the dog. Given that the showrunners have admitted that they more or less planned Glenn's death to happen here for over two years, it does mean that all the malarkey with him 'dying' under the dumpster was absolutely a way for them to twist the audience up as much as possible about Glenn's potential death (get extra ratings and buzz about fan favorite Glenn's death 2-3 times) as well as to kind of throw the audience off about him getting killed by Negan. I'm sure quite a few people thought (I heard people say this): 'There's no way they're going to have Negan kill Glenn now after all they just put him through.'

If I'm right, that means quite a few narrative decisions last season were mainly driven by the insane need to make the 'shocking' death of Glen on the TV show just as shocking as it was in the comic, and that's sad and disturbing for this show's future.

In think Sascha will die late this season or early next season.

 yakface wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Honestly I wish the death had happened last season, that we hadn't had the silly break Rick side quest (though I enjoyed Negan and Rick it was still kinda pointless), and they hadn't killed Abraham simply because he was a bit of light in a pretty dark show. Hopefully Negan, Jesus, and maybe Aaron can make up for some of that lost levity but man, it's going to be hard to beat "Mother Dick" or "Dolphin Smooth" deliveries done by Abraham.

Totally agreed on both counts.

I'm completely convinced that:

Abraham was 'let' to live past where his death was in the comic so he'd be available to be killed by Negan, thereby throwing the audience off for Glenn's death. I think the showrunners were afraid that if Negan killed a 'not as popular' new person (Aaron, Eugene, Sasha, etc) first, then the audience wouldn't think that death was worth the 6-month post-finale 'build-up', so they'd be instantly wary and expecting something else bad to happen. Since they didn't want to kill off any of the other 'core' characters (Rick, Carl, Michonne, & Daryl) this way, it had to be Abraham, just to make sure Glenn's subsequent death was a complete shock to most viewers.

This kind of thinking being used to guide a show however, is sooooo problematic. It shows that the creators are becoming way less okay with having a big twist in the comic simply play out in the show anymore. Instead, they're actually considering the fact that because people have read the comic, things that should be shocking to a TV audience, might not be, and they're twisting and contorting their stories to try to get the shocking twist back in there and play off of people's expectations from the comic book. This is the tail wagging the dog. Given that the showrunners have admitted that they more or less planned Glenn's death to happen here for over two years, it does mean that all the malarkey with him 'dying' under the dumpster was absolutely a way for them to twist the audience up as much as possible about Glenn's potential death (get extra ratings and buzz about fan favorite Glenn's death 2-3 times) as well as to kind of throw the audience off about him getting killed by Negan. I'm sure quite a few people thought (I heard people say this): 'There's no way they're going to have Negan kill Glenn now after all they just put him through.'

If I'm right, that means quite a few narrative decisions last season were mainly driven by the insane need to make the 'shocking' death of Glen on the TV show just as shocking as it was in the comic, and that's sad and disturbing for this show's future.

Yes, but the show has always done that. Many times on this thread I've complained how they changed the plot seemingly for no other reason than to throw off the comic book audience. Which I find dumb because I think they are really overestimating the comic book's audience and if they are not as shocked as the non-comic book fans who cares? I don't see this latest episode being any different than any other episode or the start of some worrisome trend.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
In think Sascha will die late this season or early next season.

Spoiler:

she's clearly a mashup of Holly (Abraham's mistress/new girl friend) and Andrea (her sniper skills). Negan kills Holly when she goes all Rambo to get revenge for Abraham and crashes a car through the gate of the Saviours compound, letting a horde of walker's in. Something I can see Sasha doing..

Completely agree with you. I see this playing out exactly.
I also see .

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 yakface wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Honestly I wish the death had happened last season, that we hadn't had the silly break Rick side quest (though I enjoyed Negan and Rick it was still kinda pointless), and they hadn't killed Abraham simply because he was a bit of light in a pretty dark show. Hopefully Negan, Jesus, and maybe Aaron can make up for some of that lost levity but man, it's going to be hard to beat "Mother Dick" or "Dolphin Smooth" deliveries done by Abraham.

Totally agreed on both counts.

I'm completely convinced that:

Abraham was 'let' to live past where his death was in the comic so he'd be available to be killed by Negan, thereby throwing the audience off for Glenn's death. I think the showrunners were afraid that if Negan killed a 'not as popular' new person (Aaron, Eugene, Sasha, etc) first, then the audience wouldn't think that death was worth the 6-month post-finale 'build-up', so they'd be instantly wary and expecting something else bad to happen. Since they didn't want to kill off any of the other 'core' characters (Rick, Carl, Michonne, & Daryl) this way, it had to be Abraham, just to make sure Glenn's subsequent death was a complete shock to most viewers.

This kind of thinking being used to guide a show however, is sooooo problematic. It shows that the creators are becoming way less okay with having a big twist in the comic simply play out in the show anymore. Instead, they're actually considering the fact that because people have read the comic, things that should be shocking to a TV audience, might not be, and they're twisting and contorting their stories to try to get the shocking twist back in there and play off of people's expectations from the comic book. This is the tail wagging the dog. Given that the showrunners have admitted that they more or less planned Glenn's death to happen here for over two years, it does mean that all the malarkey with him 'dying' under the dumpster was absolutely a way for them to twist the audience up as much as possible about Glenn's potential death (get extra ratings and buzz about fan favorite Glenn's death 2-3 times) as well as to kind of throw the audience off about him getting killed by Negan. I'm sure quite a few people thought (I heard people say this): 'There's no way they're going to have Negan kill Glenn now after all they just put him through.'

If I'm right, that means quite a few narrative decisions last season were mainly driven by the insane need to make the 'shocking' death of Glen on the TV show just as shocking as it was in the comic, and that's sad and disturbing for this show's future.

Yes, but the show has always done that. Many times on this thread I've complained how they changed the plot seemingly for no other reason than to throw off the comic book audience. Which I find dumb because I think they are really overestimating the comic book's audience and if they are not as shocked as the non-comic book fans who cares? I don't see this latest episode being any different than any other episode or the start of some worrisome trend.

I think the decision to go with the cliffhanger meant they wrote themselves into a corner, and forced them to half-waste an episode of a short season. HOWEVER...it's also a television show, and TV is a very formulaic and manipulative medium.

Abraham confronts his murderer...

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=WvCWjfOlosE

Thoughts on this week? I'm feel somewhat conflicted about the sudden shift much much more lighthearted tone. I also thought Ezekiel was actually a little annoying when he was "acting," but he seemed pretty likable when talking about his backstory and what not.

...Except I got weirded out when he showed up again at the end of the episode. Like, I don't want to be hearing any comic spoilers, but what is up with wanting Carol to try some fruit? Some sort of Persephone shenanigans?

Update: I also found the episode as a whole rather jarring; I kind of forget what show we're watching. And the (CGI?) tiger part really hurts my suspension of disbelief. Even in a world of zombies.

Ezekiel is annoying when in persona in the comics too. Sounds like an accurate adaptation.

I have no idea what you mean re carol and Persephone. Without giving any comic spoilers, her character arc is completely unrecognisable from the comics, almost as much as Andrea, so there's no real danger there.

Well, besides the mental breakdown she's been having since season 6. That sort of...mirrors what she went through in the comics, way back in the prison.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well that was a slightly disappointing episode...The promo for this episode showed Negan arriving at Alexandria, but all we got was the Kingdom. Next weeks promo looks like it'll just be about the Sanctuary and Daryl.

I hate it when the promo's lie.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I hate it when the promo's lie.

Agreed!

And yeah, this episode had a slight Shark Jumping whiff to it, so hopefully they rein in the Kingdom stuff moving forward.

I don't think it will get an entire episode all to itself again, at least.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I hate it when the promo's lie.

Agreed!

And yeah, this episode had a slight Shark Jumping whiff to it, so hopefully they rein in the Kingdom stuff moving forward.

I don't think it will get an entire episode all to itself again, at least.

Also agreed, now we probably have been spoon fed the important events of a whole episode, so the only new footage is going to feel like filler and make the episode as a whole less satisfying to watch.

On a side note, I do really like Jerry. I got a kick out of his cringy puns. New character I identify strongly with.

Ezekiel: Drink from the well, replenish the well.
Jerry: Well said!
*Everybody gives him a look that says, "Oh, Jerry, not this gak again!' *

 Alpharius wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I hate it when the promo's lie.

Agreed!

And yeah, this episode had a slight Shark Jumping whiff to it, so hopefully they rein in the Kingdom stuff moving forward.

I don't think it will get an entire episode all to itself again, at least.

It was really just a rehash of the woodberry gimmick, except the foreshadowing was horrible, as subtle as here's a brick now hit yourself with it.

so next week will be the all saviors episode with special guest daryl, then they'll start moving forward and tying it all together.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

I hope they're not going where I think they're going with Carol...

And what would be wrong with that at this point?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Ezekiel is annoying when in persona in the comics too. Sounds like an accurate adaptation.

I have no idea what you mean re carol and Persephone. Without giving any comic spoilers, her character arc is completely unrecognisable from the comics, almost as much as Andrea, so there's no real danger there.

Well, besides the mental breakdown she's been having since season 6. That sort of...mirrors what she went through in the comics, way back in the prison.

Spoiler:

I hope they're not going where I think they're going with Carol...

I'm not sure where you think it's going, but I think that (comic spoilers ahead)...



I guess I'm in the minority here, but I thought it was a strong episode. I get the tonal shift may have seemed jarring, but that WAS a good representation of Ezekiel and the Kingdom. And I thought the conversation between E & C did a good job grounding the episode. I liked that more than anyone to date, Ezekiel seems to understand Carol, with his "go but not go" solution providing a third way for Carol and probably exactly what she needs right now. Space.

Besides, a shift was necessary after the torture p**n episode last week. There are reasons for hope in their world...

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

I hope they're not going where I think they're going with Carol...

And what would be wrong with that at this point?

Did I say theres anything wrong with it?

I really enjoyed this episode. The more upbeat tone. The comparisons that kept getting drawn. Even the inspirational quotes painted up everywhere. I didn't think it jumped the shark. It's a bit comic booky to have a dude with a friggin tiger and fighting zombies from horseback seems stupid (just due to the cost of training cavalry and raising horses).

I liked the idea. That all leaders are characters. The fake it till you make it was particularly telling in conjunction with Morgan's protoge talking about how his dad died but how much more careful Ezekiel is now.

I thought it was an excellent episode. Not sure if it was an intentional choice by the director/actor to have Carol's innocent act come off over the top (maybe due to her stress or maybe playing to the "crowd" when meeting someone also so over the top in Ezekiel). I thought it was very well done. Also Morgan coming more to terms with who he is was worth it in itself.

We won't get a full episode of Kingdom again like we haven't gotten a full episode of Hilltop since it got introduced. They always seem to do a full introduction episode of new locations to give them depth.