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To be clear, I was referring to Carol's original Though I guess she could be filling in for Michonne.

She seemed a bit better at the end.

Good episode I thought - better than the opener - I enjoyed the Kingdom.

Seemed to be a better version of Alexandria.- although if Rick and co go there - it will be destroyed like pretty much everywhere else they have been

 Mr Morden wrote:
Seemed to be a better version of Alexandria.- although if Rick and co go there - it will be destroyed like pretty much everywhere else they have been

I wouldn't count on it. This season is gonna be badass.

If they had stuck to the way the narrative arc of the last season should have been presented (with Negan's killings being the end of the last season), this episode would have been a fine, if not a tad bit slow, first episode to the new season.

sirlynchmob wrote:
It was really just a rehash of the woodberry gimmick, except the foreshadowing was horrible, as subtle as here's a brick now hit yourself with it.

so next week will be the all saviors episode with special guest daryl, then they'll start moving forward and tying it all together.

I don't see the Kingdom at all being a rehash of Woddbury, because the central deal with Woodbury was that it looked idillic, but had a cancer at its heart (the Governor was severely damaged and completely manipulative).

With the Kingdom, Ezekial (at least for now), looks to be a fundamentally good person who is putting on a rather silly air to distract his group from the realities of the world...while they may all end up dying a horrible death, it won't likely be because of evil within, but rather because of conflict with the Saviors.

Ezekiel's not a complicated character...they effectively dumped his entire backstory into episode 2. I was surprised they did the whole "King Ezekiel is just an act" thing so early, because it came much later in the comics.

Thought it was a pretty uninspired episode myself.
No real tension or interest and too obvious they would have a "down time" episode after last weeks manicness.
They also seriously need to sort out Morgans character, motivations and general mojo - I actually like him as an idea but hes become tedious at this point. Also dont like seeing Carol lose here mojo (again).

My big fear now is next week they'll go back to more torture porn with Negans group (ala Bolton in GoT) and use the Kingdom as an excuse for a "break" when they need to zzzzz.

I did like Richards character however, hopefully he can replace Abraham in some form.

I liked that Morgan has finally realised that he was being a prat for a season or more and his dogmatic stupidity was getting people killed for no reason.

He does seem to be in search of a plot though but I would be happy to see him go down in the next conflict, but then I am more than bored with Rick as well - but that death is not going to happen.

Also the Kingdom does given them a whole load of new victims to kill off as they have pretty much exhausted NPCs in Alexandria and apart from Jesus and the leader - does anyone remember anyone at the Hilltop?

The show kinda relies on new places of "safety" that then get destroyed so our hero's can move on to new pastures.

I'd hope that things don't go so bad from here on out for the settlements, but drama's drama.

I like the guy playing Ezekiel. I think he's nailing the role.

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Not having read the comic, I was groaning at the previews. But when Ezekiel laid it out to Carol, I liked that a lot. He is kind of an anti-Negan. The fact that he is actually an anchored dude who knows the score and has a plan was really cool. However, I strongly dislike Carol's turn. She went from pushover to badass back to stupid. It doesn't come across as PTSD or anything, just pointless regression for drama. At least Morgan is coming back to some sensibility.

 jmurph wrote:
I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Not having read the comic, I was groaning at the previews. But when Ezekiel laid it out to Carol, I liked that a lot. He is kind of an anti-Negan. The fact that he is actually an anchored dude who knows the score and has a plan was really cool. However, I strongly dislike Carol's turn. She went from pushover to badass back to stupid. It doesn't come across as PTSD or anything, just pointless regression for drama. At least Morgan is coming back to some sensibility.

Ya, I liked it it as well. I don't see what there isn't to like, it moved the plot along introduced new characters and opened up the world. I also like this take on Ezekiel. You're right, the most annoying person in the show wasn't Ezekiel it was Carol by far.

Carol was............ Carol?

She played her usual public self to the new people whilst she healed up. She nearly died at the same time as having a mental breakdown so maybe we should cut her some slack

Yeah, the point of Carol's current storyline is that she's an actual human being and not a robot, and all the gak she's done has come with a real cost to her soul.

Everyone's gone through a lot. I tired of multiple episodes covering the fact she wants to run away and die. It's pointless and annoying. Though its probably done now....she has a house and guy with a tiger.....

So...last night was kinda twisted. I was 50/50 on Daryl cracking at the end, after he was given the photo of Glenn mashed to a pulp.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So...last night was kinda twisted. I was 50/50 on Daryl cracking at the end, after he was given the photo of Glenn mashed to a pulp.

The smart thing to do would have been to kneel before Zod, err I mean Negan Play along, map the area, count the people, kill dwight

I actually think Daryl is making the right call. If he falls in line Negan is going to endlessly test him to make sure he's committed. Which means using him against his friends. He'll also just become another thug to Negan. Right now Negan is interested BECAUSE of how hard he is to break and his personality. Take that away and I don't think Daryl lasts a week as a Savior.

I enjoyed the episode. And now that we've seen how all "societies" currently in the show work we can start rolling forward with the plot.

Who was Daryl referring too when he said he couldn't break because of them? Glenn?

Yeah, he finally showed showed remorse about Glenn about halfway through.

Interestingly, I feel this episode is really more about Dwight, especially his history with Negan. The Pet the Dog/Kick the Dog tropes seem to be very heavy. Ascended from lowly worker to right hand man? Gets to take gak from people whenever he feels like it? Yeah, Dwight has privilege, yet at the same time... Negan stole away his wife and uses her as incentive to work, rather mockingly? Dwight is becoming a more and more fleshed out character. I'm not a comic reader, but I feel like if Negan ever faces the music, he will be involved.

Dwight? A central character? Never...

Definitely back on track with that episode. Good tension, well acted, great scene on the road with Dwight and the guy who wants to die.
Actually really liked the way they fleshed out D, hopefully they grow him more and he starts to build a relationship with Daryl and ultimately kick Negans ass

Time now for them to get back to Rick and see how his crew deal with things and move forward.

He is far more of an arsehole than in the comics. Nobody was taken prisoner and subjected to torture in the comics.

Who D or Negan?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
He is far more of an arsehole than in the comics. Nobody was taken prisoner and subjected to torture in the comics.

Well I think it was implied by Dwights cool new burn pattern. They're just embellishing a bit, like they did with the governor and giving them a bit more of a back story.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
He is far more of an arsehole than in the comics. Nobody was taken prisoner and subjected to torture in the comics.

Yeah, I don't remember any kneeling, or that "I'm Negan" stuff either. This is a different take on Negan.

Comic Negan holds the Saviors together with fear, but also his charisma and smarts. Show Negan is more like a cult leader or something, with the brainwashing, etc. I don't think comic Negan would like show Negan very much, TBH.

They've also downplayed...



Maybe they wanted to compare and contrast Sanctuary with the other communities in various ways, I dunno. Right now, it's a little hard to imagine...

Don't know about the comics, but Dwight got some nice depth and I feel for the guy. He is surviving, but obviously has some deep seated conflict with Negan. It is interesting that at first he was all about killing Daryl, but I think he sees some of himself in him now.

Negan also seems to be in a perilous position. He can only maintain power so long as everyone below him fears him. It's a fine point on the pyramid. He seems to be acutely aware of this (hence his use of overwhelming force for punishment), but he also seems to have bought into his own BS grandstanding. Pretty typical charismatic strongman. It will be interesting to see what the tipping point that brings it to a head is. Certainly if the forces currently subjugated against him ever join and rise up, it will likely spell disaster for Negan's regime.

I think you're safe on that account.

I think AMC will follow the books fairly closely where he's concerned.

I just hope the TV series doesn't take as long as the comics do to get there!

 Alpharius wrote:
I think you're safe on that account.

I think AMC will follow the books fairly closely where he's concerned.

I just hope the TV series doesn't take as long as the comics do to get there!

As much as I liked Negan and the Saviour's arc in the comics, I agree. I'm hoping that the conclusion of AOW will be the Season 7 finale. One Season is enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, did anyone else notice that one of the Saviours (the fat one who guards Daryl whilst Negan is speaking to Dwight)...has Rick's Revolver?

I think we'll see a season and a half of the Saviors. One season doesn't feel long enough with 4 locations to shoot and keep up with but 2 full seasons feels like to much. We'll just have to see.