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Well, I really hope they wrap up the All Out War arc by the end of this season.

 yakface wrote:

I do not think this last episode will help TWD's rating's slide, that's for sure!

Pretty boring episode overall. Like I've been saying, I was hoping for explorations of a few really interesting, nuanced new communities this season. Instead I feel like they're just giving us a bunch of one-note, one-dimensional communities instead.

Here's hoping that next week's focus on the Saviors fixes this a bit, but I'm really just expecting for them to continue down the road of the Saviors being the simplistic 'big bad guys' that Carl and Jesus are trying to take down (or more likely just be caught and tortured by).

Agreed!

They continue to go for the "Shock" too with the lame Heath fakeout too... ugh!

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Well, I really hope they wrap up the All Out War arc by the end of this season.

Spoiler:

The two year time jump would be the perfect time to cancel the show with a reasonably neat conclusion without too many loose ends.

That's not happening!

Yup, too much ad money to end it!

Very underwhelming episode. Still dealing with cardboard cutouts instead of characters.

At least its not Season 2 bad (yet!)

So a great epsiode of the Negan show with fun guest apearance by Carl - direct port of some great comic book moments.

So we did have to put up with some terribly dull other characters popping up and wasting time.

However the cute gun bunny finally told Eugene some home truths - 2 Seasons late.

Immense improvement on last weeks snooze fest

 Mr Morden wrote:


However the cute gun bunny finally told Eugene some home truths - 2 Seasons late.

Yeah she's cute but she was dead wrong. Eugene correctly surmised that even if she did manage to kill Negan someone would pay the cost, and with the Saviours that usually means someone other than the perpetrator. Rosita just stamps her feet, gets insanely personal, and carries on endangering everyone in the community. Two seasons ago Eugene was dead weight, now he's probably one of the most valuable individuals in terms of skillset in the entire show.

Good episode compared with the bottlerockets over the last month. Not sure why they had to compartmentalize everyone's story into individual 45 minute packages like that.

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


However the cute gun bunny finally told Eugene some home truths - 2 Seasons late.

Yeah she's cute but she was dead wrong. Eugene correctly surmised that even if she did manage to kill Negan someone would pay the cost, and with the Saviours that usually means someone other than the perpetrator. Rosita just stamps her feet, gets insanely personal, and carries on endangering everyone in the community. Two seasons ago Eugene was dead weight, now he's probably one of the most valuable individuals in terms of skillset in the entire show.

Good episode compared with the bottlerockets over the last month. Not sure why they had to compartmentalize everyone's story into individual 45 minute packages like that.

I meant that he is a useless coward, a dead weight and more importantly had sacrificed dozens of people to keep himself alive by lying to them all without any consequence.

Now Eugene has shown he has a skill that would actually be useful he might be able to try and pay back the dead. Of course he has to follow through rather than lumber around moaning about stuff.

Amusing the way the scavengers take the smallest possible knives when out and about in zombieland

Dozens is a pretty sizeable exaggeration. He was instrumental in the defeat of Dwight on the railroad track, is a competent and intelligent scavenger (discovered the special seeds in s6, highlights potentially valuable sites ahead of time) and was willing to drive off alone to lure away the huge army of saviors in the s6 finale. That's apart from the absolutely huge skill of producing ammunition the value of which is difficult to overstate. He was a coward, yes, but that's just not accurate anymore. Would you classify Olivia as a coward? Her sole contribution is inventory control at the pantry/armoury, a task in which she proved to be semi-competent at best, and she barely holds herself together at the first sign of a savior. I'd say she qualifies as dead weight far more than my man 'Gene.

Show me a character on the show today whose life hasn't been maintained at the expense of someone elses. The first big conflict of the Alexandria arc was basically Rick hypothesizing how many Alexandrians would have to die before they could consider being a community together.

The scavengers activities outside the walls are the most frustrating thing about this show. Tiny knives, no maps, no compass, frequent (loud) vocal domestic disagreements, perimeter? what's that? unlimited fuel supply, derelict cars still turn over every time.

Eugene is extremely important. Hell, he just made a fetching BULLET.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Eugene is extremely important. Hell, he just made a fetching BULLET.

After how long and having to be dragged out to the location and browbeaten into doing it. He has been a waste of space for months - now he might actually step up and provide something.

Dozens is a pretty sizeable exaggeration. He was instrumental in the defeat of Dwight on the railroad track, is a competent and intelligent scavenger (discovered the special seeds in s6, highlights potentially valuable sites ahead of time) and was willing to drive off alone to lure away the huge army of saviors in the s6 finale. That's apart from the absolutely huge skill of producing ammunition the value of which is difficult to overstate. He was a coward, yes, but that's just not accurate anymore. Would you classify Olivia as a coward? Her sole contribution is inventory control at the pantry/armoury, a task in which she proved to be semi-competent at best, and she barely holds herself together at the first sign of a savior. I'd say she qualifies as dead weight far more than my man 'Gene.

Show me a character on the show today whose life hasn't been maintained at the expense of someone elses. The first big conflict of the Alexandria arc was basically Rick hypothesizing how many Alexandrians would have to die before they could consider being a community together.

The scavengers activities outside the walls are the most frustrating thing about this show. Tiny knives, no maps, no compass, frequent (loud) vocal domestic disagreements, perimeter? what's that? unlimited fuel supply, derelict cars still turn over every time.

How many people did Abraham say died protecting Eugene - when he specifically lied to protect himself - watching people die to keep him alive and safe and the only consequence was a single punch in the face. Its not until now anyone even said anything.

Producing Ammunition - which until now he did not do - because? - he moped about did sweet FA, failed to learn how to defend himself etc etc. Apparently it takes about 2 mins to do (is that right?) and he refused to - why?

Olivia did not drag a load of people across zombieland, sacrificing them left right and centre to keep him alive. He should be paying that sarcfice back - if he starts a proper manufacturing process then he is - but until now he did nothing. He found exactly one special site.

Yeah the Scavenging is hilariously bad, one of the worst bits in the show apart form the pacing.

But the Negan show is at least worth watching

Producing Ammunition - which until now he did not do - because? - he moped about did sweet FA, failed to learn how to defend himself etc etc. Apparently it takes about 2 mins to do (is that right?) and he refused to - why?

1). Because until recently, Alexandria had a massive armoury of weapons and ammunition. They simply didn't need any more ammo, until their armoury was confiscated by the Saviours.

2). Eugene initially refused to cooperate because he (correctly) thinks its suicide. Rosita has one bullet. ONE. A bullet thats probably poorly made and defective - we don't even know yet if the bullet works. And she's made it quite clear that she intends to take a potshot at Negan, at which point the Saviours will enact a vicious revenge on the rest of Alexandria whether she succeeds in killing Negan or not.

Eugene is right - one bat gak insane chick with a single small calibre bullet and a death wish will not defeat the Saviours, they need to organise and plan and recruit an army.

3). And no, it does not take 2 min to do, thats simply the show compressing time for brevity.

After how long and having to be dragged out to the location and browbeaten into doing it. He has been a waste of space for months - now he might actually step up and provide something.

This is unfair to Eugene. Prior to Abraham and Glenn's execution, he was actually becoming much more active and starting to pull his weight, even fighting Walkers himself, and travelling outside the walls of Alexandria alone (he argued with Abraham and they split up. Eugene didn't panic at the prospect of returning alone). And on the day they were captured by the Saviours, he actually volunteered to be a decoy - he drove the RV off alone in a different direction to lure away the Saviours and let Rick and co. escape through the woods. That took balls. Clearly his confidence was growing and he was becoming stronger.

Abraham and Glenns' executions crushed his newfound confidence and was a massive setback for his character development. Compared to how poorly Rick is coping, I think Eugene can be forgiven.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Producing Ammunition - which until now he did not do - because? - he moped about did sweet FA, failed to learn how to defend himself etc etc. Apparently it takes about 2 mins to do (is that right?) and he refused to - why?

Because he needed more than just the knowledge, he needed the machinery. He was the one that had surmised where the required machinery was and took Abraham there to check it out. That's a second crucial discovery which the survivors would have been completely ignorant about if not for Eugene - A stable source of food, and then ammunition. Not bad. The 2 minutes thing gives your argument that shotgun approach, fire out enough pellets and hope something hits. Time-skips have been a part of television since forever, it obviously took longer to manufacture.

Olivia didn't drag anyone into zombieland true, but she's never actually been outside the walls herself. Every meal, any medication she's ever needed, the wall itself, she owes to others many of whom died to secure those items. She also has the easiest job in Alexandria apart from Judith, and she doesn't even do that very well. Eugene might not be great with a machete, but I've never seen Olivia armed at all. For the record Olivia is just an example, I don't consider her dead weight, but if Eugene qualifies then Olivia most certainly does as well.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Producing Ammunition - which until now he did not do - because? - he moped about did sweet FA, failed to learn how to defend himself etc etc. Apparently it takes about 2 mins to do (is that right?) and he refused to - why?

1). Because until recently, Alexandria had a massive armoury of weapons and ammunition. They simply didn't need any more ammo, until their armoury was confiscated by the Saviours.

2). Eugene initially refused to cooperate because he (correctly) thinks its suicide. Rosita has one bullet. ONE. A bullet thats probably poorly made and defective - we don't even know yet if the bullet works. And she's made it quite clear that she intends to take a potshot at Negan, at which point the Saviours will enact a vicious revenge on the rest of Alexandria whether she succeeds in killing Negan or not.

Eugene is right - one bat gak insane chick with a single small calibre bullet and a death wish will not defeat the Saviours, they need to organise and plan and recruit an army.

3). And no, it does not take 2 min to do, thats simply the show compressing time for brevity.

After how long and having to be dragged out to the location and browbeaten into doing it. He has been a waste of space for months - now he might actually step up and provide something.

This is unfair to Eugene. Prior to Abraham and Glenn's execution, he was actually becoming much more active and starting to pull his weight, even fighting Walkers himself, and travelling outside the walls of Alexandria alone (he argued with Abraham and they split up. Eugene didn't panic at the prospect of returning alone). And on the day they were captured by the Saviours, he actually volunteered to be a decoy - he drove the RV off alone in a different direction to lure away the Saviours and let Rick and co. escape through the woods. That took balls. Clearly his confidence was growing and he was becoming stronger.

Abraham and Glenns' executions crushed his newfound confidence and was a massive setback for his character development. Compared to how poorly Rick is coping, I think Eugene can be forgiven.

1) So he didn't bother because he is lazy and assumed that others had done his work for him. He should have said, no I can do this and more importantly I can show others how to do it. We can then trade it maybe even the skills with other groups - like hill top - remember the whole we have nothing to trade and they have no ammo. Did he suggest anything like that - nope.

2) So its suicide to make a bullet - but as usual he took the easy way out and did it anyway - did he think that rather than risking lives scavenging that the Saviours would be happy with a supply of bullets if they are actually knuckling down to serve them. It may not be a good plan but its something - maybe save some lives and not just Eugenes for once. Rosita is angry - just like Carl and Micholene and others - arguably Carl was far more stupid than Rosita (cool sequence though). She has not done anything yet!

Eugne does not seem to care that the bullet might not work - after all he is not firing it.

3) It obviously not hard to repurpose bullets in the Walking dead universe - but again previously but he just could not bothered to use these oh so important skills - because?

Beyond being fat, useless and lazy?

So, Negan seems to have a child complex. Yet despite his many wives, no children. Now he has a boy who he sees as a total potential badass (a chip off the ol' block) and a baby. Interesting.

At first, I thought it was dumb that Negan is fawning on Carl after making it so clear how he can't tolerate not following the rules. But this episode did a pretty good job as setting up a plausible reason why. It also allowed him a shade of humanity, which is definitely a good thing.

 jmurph wrote:
So, Negan seems to have a child complex. Yet despite his many wives, no children. Now he has a boy who he sees as a total potential badass (a chip off the ol' block) and a baby. Interesting.

At first, I thought it was dumb that Negan is fawning on Carl after making it so clear how he can't tolerate not following the rules. But this episode did a pretty good job as setting up a plausible reason why. It also allowed him a shade of humanity, which is definitely a good thing.

He may not be able to have children in the show.

Feth Rosita. Stupid idiot going off half cocked with a single bullet...and she hits the fething bat??? She threw away Alexandria's one big advantage - the ability to make bullets. And what's worse - she handed that advantage over to the Saviours.

Me and my GF were hoping Rosita would be the one to get Luciled in the premiere, since she was the most useless and most annoying.

We were a few weeks behind but got caught up this weekend. I have a theory that all of these new settlements they keep showing.. they're setting it up where Alexandria is gonna end up teaming up the Hilltop, Kingdom, Tara's Nuns with Guns and do an all out war with the saviors in the final season. Neegan will die horribly, but not after doing a crapton of damage first. Toss up over who kills him.. Rick, Carl, Dwight or Dwayne. But I have a feeling they're setting up Dwayne to pull a noble sacrifice kind of move in the end, so one of Rick's crew can get the kill.

I thought Eugene was going to get the bat for a moment there. Negan was clearly tempted.

If anyone is dead weight right now, its Rosita not Eugene. They need to be smart in how they go about fighting Negan, not recklessly going off half cocked trying to assassinate Negan and fight dozens of Saviours with a single bullet. What did she think was going to happen? She failed to kill Negan, and one person was executed. If she had succeeded, she would would have provoked a gunfight in the streets, only one side has no guns. The entire town would have been massacred.

If the dumb b**** had kept that gun and bullet hidden and kept a cool head, Eugene could have been making bullets by the crate by the time the war starts.

 Necros wrote:


We were a few weeks behind but got caught up this weekend. I have a theory that all of these new settlements they keep showing.. they're setting it up where Alexandria is gonna end up teaming up the Hilltop, Kingdom, Tara's Nuns with Guns and do an all out war with the saviors in the final season.

You...think?

Never even looked at the comics so I didn't know.. but now that you mention it, I guess the Mantic game should have given that away for me too

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Feth Rosita. Stupid idiot going off half cocked with a single bullet...and she hits the fething bat??? She threw away Alexandria's one big advantage - the ability to make bullets. And what's worse - she handed that advantage over to the Saviours.

Well, although how Eugene ended up with the Saviors is different, it can basically follow the books from here on out.

 Necros wrote:
Me and my GF were hoping Rosita would be the one to get Luciled in the premiere, since she was the most useless and most annoying.

We were a few weeks behind but got caught up this weekend. I have a theory that all of these new settlements they keep showing.. they're setting it up where Alexandria is gonna end up teaming up the Hilltop, Kingdom, Tara's Nuns with Guns and do an all out war with the saviors in the final season. Neegan will die horribly, but not after doing a crapton of damage first. Toss up over who kills him.. Rick, Carl, Dwight or Dwayne. But I have a feeling they're setting up Dwayne to pull a noble sacrifice kind of move in the end, so one of Rick's crew can get the kill.

An "All Out War" you say? I like that.

Another great episode of the Negan show - nice they kept the minor charcters like Rick around as well.

Loved the Spencer bit - the comic translations are great in the last two episodes.

So who was the guy hiding by the boat and what was that all about?

Why did the girl with Mich suddenly turn suicidal?

So....the Spencer bit was pretty well ported over. Quite enjoyed it.
Rosita...man, the hot chick royally screwed the pooch. And fatty mcflubber-butt in the Z-pocalypse (seriously, how was it even POSSIBLE for her to be fat?!) died for Rosita's stupidity.
Curious about the man at the boat.
Determined/decided Enid is just a Sophia standin. No more, no less.
Man, Negan looks like Tony Stark once he's all shaved up!!

But...Tony's got facial hair all the time?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So....the Spencer bit was pretty well ported over. Quite enjoyed it.
Rosita...man, the hot chick royally screwed the pooch. And fatty mcflubber-butt in the Z-pocalypse (seriously, how was it even POSSIBLE for her to be fat?!) died for Rosita's stupidity.
Curious about the man at the boat.
Determined/decided Enid is just a Sophia standin. No more, no less.
Man, Negan looks like Tony Stark once he's all shaved up!!

The whole Spencer scene was brilliant. Are we down to about 3 -4 people left in Alexandra who were there pre-Rick?

Rosita did just watch a guy she been sleeping with get brutally gutted - and that's the second guy she was involved with that Negan has killed in quick succession so I think it was stupid but understandable.

Also Carl was the one who went on a killing spree and brought Negan to call and I think someone was going to die for that little escapade anyway Negan quickly works out that bad asses don't like you killing those who they see as under their protection or innocent.

Of Course its all about to kick off now that Daryl escaped mashing people's heads in and the main cast have done their hero walk at Hilltop.
Does anyone have any idea about what the hell the boat stuff was about apart from a reminder that there are zombies still about here and there.

Agree Enid = Sophia.

 Alpharius wrote:
But...Tony's got facial hair all the time?

Except when he was digitally rendered to look like a teen in Civil War. And Negan looks like that TS all grown up. To me, at least.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
But...Tony's got facial hair all the time?

Except when he was digitally rendered to look like a teen in Civil War. And Negan looks like that TS all grown up. To me, at least.

That's a reach - I'm going to start calling you Mr. Fantastic!

Overall, a decent 'mid-season finale'.

A bit disappointed that Rick was NOT playing possum, really was broken, and had to be 'convinced' to take action.

Still, at least we're there - and away we go!

 Alpharius wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
But...Tony's got facial hair all the time?

Except when he was digitally rendered to look like a teen in Civil War. And Negan looks like that TS all grown up. To me, at least.

That's a reach - I'm going to start calling you Mr. Fantastic!

Overall, a decent 'mid-season finale'.

A bit disappointed that Rick was NOT playing possum, really was broken, and had to be 'convinced' to take action.

Still, at least we're there - and away we go!

Indeed - Its ironical I think by hisstandards, Neegan probably figures he is going easy on them.

After all they killed about 40 of his people prior to the meeting, Carl guns down a couple, Rosita tries to shoot him etc.- he has only killed three in response

I also thought they might have had some of the Saviours mentioning that friends and family were the ones in the outpost.

 Alpharius wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
But...Tony's got facial hair all the time?

Except when he was digitally rendered to look like a teen in Civil War. And Negan looks like that TS all grown up. To me, at least.

That's a reach - I'm going to start calling you Mr. Fantastic!

Overall, a decent 'mid-season finale'.

A bit disappointed that Rick was NOT playing possum, really was broken, and had to be 'convinced' to take action.

I'm sooooooo tired of glassy-eyed, trembling Rick. But that's what the show does and is. I take it that (comic spoilers ahead)...