Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There's still an awful lot they can do with it though.

The main problem at the moment is repetition. Rick's Group find Safe Haven. NOT AS SAFE AS THOUGHT! Runs! Rick's Group find Safe Haven. NOT AS SAFE AS THOUGHT! Runs!

What they need to start doing (and remember, I've not read the comics) is showing man coming back from the brink - we've seen tantalising hints of that so far what with The Kingdom, Hilltop etc beginning to work together.

Brian2112 wrote:
Not sure if this has come up yet...

'Walking Dead' showrunner aims for 20 seasons on air

'Walking Dead' will live 20 years, says producer

Spoiler:

Only 13 seasons left!

Mash went 11 seasons. It sucked after Trapper John left.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There's still an awful lot they can do with it though.

The main problem at the moment is repetition. Rick's Group find Safe Haven. NOT AS SAFE AS THOUGHT! Runs! Rick's Group find Safe Haven. NOT AS SAFE AS THOUGHT! Runs!

What they need to start doing (and remember, I've not read the comics) is showing man coming back from the brink - we've seen tantalising hints of that so far what with The Kingdom, Hilltop etc beginning to work together.

Well, if they follow the books, which they mostly do...

There's going to be plenty of brinkmanship in the seasons to come, don't worry.

As long as they and everyone else is ok with the death of a guy like Rick they could do 20 seasons. It's hard to keep an actor for 20 years.

Carl, Enid, Judith and Maggie could stick around. Maybe Michonne. Rick and Daryl (Lincoln and Reedus) aren't exactly young guys anymore. The rest could keep aging over time. Personal opinion, anyway.

So... thoughts?

One thing that bugged me..

Even though I watched S8 premiere, I lost focus ever since Glenn died in S7, the repetition, lack of content, remaining casts, and the direction going with the comics are the culprits for my lack of focus.

The killings of my favorite characters(Shane, Glenn, Beth, Tyrese), along with the remainning captivating characters(Carol, Daryl, Morgan) doesn't do enough for my attention. The new people from the kingdom, hilltop, don't captivate me.

It has come to a point where the Fear of the walking dead is more interesting. Alicia, Madison, Strand, Nick>Carol, Daryl, Morgan, in terms of getting my attention.

I do quite like where they're going with Madison. Seems like she's shaping up to be much more ruthless than Rick much earlier. Hopefully she'll become a villain on TWD.

On the interview show afterwards they said something about doing a crossover between the shows next year... but I dunno how that would work.. like isn't the original show a few years later than the new one?

So you can't really have Madison drive her water truck to Alexandria and ask if they have any heroin to trade for Nick's next fix. Unless it takes her 3 years to get there?

Or maybe the timelines are closer than we think?

They'd do a time jump if they wanted a FTWD character to crossover in TWD.

But its not going to be a FTWD character, it'll be the other way round. Probably Abraham Ford, who came from Houston Texas I think, before his family died and he met up with Eugene who manipulated him into taking him to Washington.

Proctor asked Alicia to accompany him to Houston, before the whole Damn shootout. I think that was a hint as to where the show is going next. What survivors remain on FtWD will be heading north to Houston where they'll encounter Abraham however briefly.

Really rather enjoyed the Season 8 opener.

As ever, I need to go back and watch it again to make sure I've taken it all in. But it was fun to watch!

 Necros wrote:
So... thoughts?

One thing that bugged me..

Spoiler:

was when right before they called out Negan, didn’t someone just snipe th lookouts on the roof? Why didnt they just snipe Negan right there and be done with it?

I thought the same thing. Not only then but

finally got to watch the premiere last night and like a few others have said, how annoying is it to see everyone as a deadeye marksmen when shooting zombies in the head from yards away but give a guy a machine gun and they shoot like a stormtrooper busting through the door in a new hope...
its frustrating to watch sometimes but then my "we have to keep the story goingitude" kicks in and its watchable.

anyone think daryl will actually kill dwight or will he redeem himself enough?

Daryl will not kill Dwight.

Why You Can't Just Snipe Negan #138897187

Right now, he's not only got a cult of personality going on, but more numbers than you.

He's build himself up to be unassailable. Take him out, and you risk facing a crusade against you by his Lieutenants. Yes that'll likely fall apart eventually - shame you won't be around to enjoy that.

So what do you do? You make him bleed. Let his followers see he's merely mortal. Poke, prod and cajole him into ever rasher actions. Use his ego against him. Break his legend down, render him merely mortal. Take his power away.

As you take out his Lieutenants, he'll have to replace them. And each time, that person is going to be one step removed from the loyalty of their predecessor.

Strip it all away one stroke at a time. Bleed him white. That way, when he falls, there's nobody left believing in his cause and his method. That's how you achieve total victory.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Why You Can't Just Snipe Negan #138897187

Right now, he's not only got a cult of personality going on, but more numbers than you.

He's build himself up to be unassailable. Take him out, and you risk facing a crusade against you by his Lieutenants. Yes that'll likely fall apart eventually - shame you won't be around to enjoy that.

So what do you do? You make him bleed. Let his followers see he's merely mortal. Poke, prod and cajole him into ever rasher actions. Use his ego against him. Break his legend down, render him merely mortal. Take his power away.

As you take out his Lieutenants, he'll have to replace them. And each time, that person is going to be one step removed from the loyalty of their predecessor.

Strip it all away one stroke at a time. Bleed him white. That way, when he falls, there's nobody left believing in his cause and his method. That's how you achieve total victory.

Hit the nail on the head. Have you read the comics?

Rick needs to erode the will of the Saviours to fight first. Assassinating their leader when the Saviours as a group are still strong will only make Negan a martyr.

Haven't read a single comic of Walking Dead - was going to wait until the show is concluded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's pretty simple to work out though. Every single one of Negan's people has been oppressed by him.

What he did to Abraham and Glenn? He's done to someone every single one of his now Droogs knew.

He broke their groups, added them to his own. They likely hate him no less than Rick and Co - they're just under his thumb. I mean, look at his punishments. Ironing peoples faces, randomly killing people. He needs his myth to maintain that.

Soon as you fracture his ego, you fracture his façade - with the best of luck, his people might even take him out, saving an awful lot of unnecessary bloodshed.

you guys are smart.
im moving in to your camp when the apocalypse comes.

i would have just shot him =P

[MOD EDIT - COMIC TALK, NOW IN SPOILER - Alpharius]

I would have just shot him in the face. And then Gregory would be next.

Subject: Walking Dead TV Show **Spoilers** (comic talk only in spoiler tags)

I suppose if you've never read the comics, TV Negan *might* be...palatable?

But I don't really believe that.

He's not done well at all, and it is hard to believe that TV Negan would have lived as long as he apparently has in the setup he has.

I see Rick vs Negan as an allegory.

It's the choice the survivors face between what they had (Negan/Government. Holds the cards, claims their due, their due being whatever they decide it is), and a more cooperative liftstyle (Rick/Hilltop/The Kingdom)

Though I'm almost certainly reading too much subtext.

[MOD EDIT - COMIC TALK, NOW IN SPOILER - Alpharius]

Decent enough season opener but nothing mind blowing.
Liked that Negan didnt get to pull another wand wave when Gregory tried to rally "his troops" and that it looks for once that Negan is on the back foot.
Was unsure about Ricks flash forward scenes - seemed a bit filler-esque to me.

Im unsure how the show actually gets back on track though - the last two seasons have been fairly hit n miss. Maybe go back to good old fashioned character bonding. Havent seen a good scene with Rick/Daryl or say Maggie/anyone or Michone/anyone in yonks.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
The collected edition of "Here's Negan!", the Negan prequel comic, was out this month. Might be a good idea to pick that up. Its fairly short, but runs through Negan before the outbreak, and up to forming the Saviours.

He's actually not a bad guy, he just gets fed up with people dying on him all the time.

Gets fed up with people dying all the time, so he decides to start helping people to die faster.

Negan logic 101.

[MOD EDIT - COMIC TALK, NOW IN SPOILER - Alpharius]

Whaaa? There were no spoilers there, I'm just referring to Negan's long list of kills and overall propensity for violence.

Or are you referring to Wyrmalla?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Why You Can't Just Snipe Negan #138897187

Right now, he's not only got a cult of personality going on, but more numbers than you.

He's build himself up to be unassailable. Take him out, and you risk facing a crusade against you by his Lieutenants. Yes that'll likely fall apart eventually - shame you won't be around to enjoy that.

So what do you do? You make him bleed. Let his followers see he's merely mortal. Poke, prod and cajole him into ever rasher actions. Use his ego against him. Break his legend down, render him merely mortal. Take his power away.

As you take out his Lieutenants, he'll have to replace them. And each time, that person is going to be one step removed from the loyalty of their predecessor.

Strip it all away one stroke at a time. Bleed him white. That way, when he falls, there's nobody left believing in his cause and his method. That's how you achieve total victory.

Or you could just mow down Negan and half his lieutenants in one single action while they stand, barely armed and totally unprepared, right in front of you and your 30+ soldiers. Then simply retire and allow the remaining saviours to devour each other in the ensuing power vacuum. There's no way you can spin the scenario as it played out into a plausible one. Every time it's another "I'm going to kill you" from Rick, followed up by an unspoken "but not for another 10+ episodes". Negan is not unassailable. The survivors killed around 50 saviours and suffered minimal losses before they'd even met the real Negan, and the survivors can also confirm there is significant resistance to the tyranny of Negan from within his own organisation - Dwight is an outright rebel and Gavin seems more interested in self-preservation than maintaining Negan's cause. The saviours killed their own doctor, regularly wipe out their tributaries for minor infractions and now have lost all sources of materials. Their options for scavenging are limited by the fact the entire area is hostile to them, they have a significant population of lower class workers who have little to no experience in scavenging or fighting, and their home base is isolated and besieged.

The gun play in this show has become comical at best. Weapons rarely recoil. They are usually operated in full automatic in spite of the fact bullets haven't been mass produced anywhere on Earth for 3-4 years and most operators are slightly above a civilian level of training. On top of that, bullets are expended to break windows when simply throwing a few stones would achieve the same result. Need to light a fire? Why not waste some flares, I mean lighters and matches are surely a rarer commodity especially since you lost your last firestarting device, an RPG-7.

The show now seems completely beholden to the big 'banner' moments from the comics, and tries to portray them like they are in the comics, even when you see them in reality they often seem completely and utterly preposterous (even in a world filled with zombies). The comics had the scene of Negan and Rick 'facing off' and yelling stuff at each other, so they did it that way on the show, simple as that, even though it was completely and utterly stupid.

What I don't really understand, is there's no reason why you couldn't have done essentially the same scene but with Negan yelling out from inside his bunker the same way Rick and his crew were hiding behind their mobile walls. But they just don't seem to care. As long as the big comic beats are hit, then that's all that seems to matter.

 Alpharius wrote:

Subject: Walking Dead TV Show **Spoilers** (comic talk only in spoiler tags)

I suppose if you've never read the comics, TV Negan *might* be...palatable?

But I don't really believe that.

He's not done well at all, and it is hard to believe that TV Negan would have lived as long as he apparently has in the setup he has.

The ultimate issue I have with TV Negan is that I don't see how this guy ends up...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see Rick vs Negan as an allegory.

It's the choice the survivors face between what they had (Negan/Government. Holds the cards, claims their due, their due being whatever they decide it is), and a more cooperative liftstyle (Rick/Hilltop/The Kingdom)

Though I'm almost certainly reading too much subtext.

You're not wrong. Each major group they face reflects a different philosophy and survival approach. The Governor was basically a simple despot. Negan, on the other hand, represents a kind of feudalism. It isn't made as clear as it should be in the show, but the Saviors do provide security in exchange for their tribute.

Ultimately, the show isn't about the end of civilization, but the struggle to build a new one.

Gorgon has the right of it. They're doing similar if not as overt things in FTWD as well.

As for show Negan I think he works fine. He's a cult leader that appears nearly invincible. Even shot his "I am Negan" thing would work for any of his lieutenants to step into his shoes. In essence he's also Rick from the beginning of Season 6. He's NEVER lost. He's ALWAYS two steps ahead. So he's cocky.

And while he is a tyrant he's also a mostly good tyrant. Follow the rules and you're protected. Break them and he breaks you. How many people in his community and out in the world are still alive because of him. Granted he's killed quite a few likely but reality is that he's still probably ahead of percentages. And after what we've seen of Gregory who do we really think was the one who started the issues between hilltop and the saviors? They probably were actually short on that shipment and paid the price for it. Then Gregory out of fear got Ricks group to fix the problem starting all of this. Issues with the Kingdom came about because one of his under bosses couldn't keep his people inline. If you actually step back for all of his crazy act Negan hasn't actually stepped out of line of his own rules. He's actually be restrained. But feudalism requires absolute authority to function, especially in the current environment, and that's what he goes for. Granted he probably could have solved the problem of the Kingdom if he had some sort of set up for basically communicating over his underbosses head on certain situations but then again, maybe not.

Also I can see him falling into the comic role fairly well.