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 TBD wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 TBD wrote:

it is quite disappointing to see CB pull a bit of a GW on us.

If CB had pulled a GW on you they would raise the price of all starters to be costed at the price of this starter and not price an individual starter slightly more because it has a higher production cost.

That is not how GW operates anymore. Instead of one yearly raise for (nearly) everything they now raise prices every new release, which is exactly what happened here.

If we have to compare GW and CB, this would be like Space Marines getting a new Land Raider with 4 sponsons and some extra hull details for £8 more than a regular Land Raider, which imo, feels completely justified. My first reaction when seeing the group shot was: "No way this costs the same as a regular starter". The models are massive.

 TBD wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 TBD wrote:

it is quite disappointing to see CB pull a bit of a GW on us.

If CB had pulled a GW on you they would raise the price of all starters to be costed at the price of this starter and not price an individual starter slightly more because it has a higher production cost.

That is not how GW operates anymore. Instead of one yearly raise for (nearly) everything they now raise prices every new release, which is exactly what happened here.

Yes, unfortunately, that is the new definition of "Pulling a GW".

I hope this isn't a trend...

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The new Morats are significantly larger than standard models. Look at how they barely fit on the 25mm bases.

They are about the same size as Stephen Rao in the side by side picture of all of this month's releases (Rao's head even appears to be bigger).

Time will tell. Hopefully this is just a pricing oddity like the Magister Knights.

Did you see the pricing for the rest of December's releases?

That might tell us a bit more too...

 TBD wrote:
It still doesn't add up Imo. This is a starter box. We don't pay individual blister prices for the content of a starter box.

You're aware that the standard single-model blister price is 9.25 € these days? That would be 55.50 €!

Even if you took the price of the old Vanguards (which you can't because CB don't release three-model blisters any more) you're not paying the price of the individual blisters:

Morat triple blister 15.75 €
Single blister for Oznat 9.25 €
Single blister for Raktorak 9.25 €
McMurrough for Sogarat 15.75 €

That comes to 50 € assuming low prices for each item. The Raktorak would presumably be 10.25 € as a blister, McMurrough is cheaper than Ajax.

 TBD wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The new Morats are significantly larger than standard models. Look at how they barely fit on the 25mm bases.

They are about the same size as Stephen Rao in the side by side picture of all of this month's releases (Rao's head even appears to be bigger).

Time will tell. Hopefully this is just a pricing oddity like the Magister Knights.

The "side by side pictures" aren't actually side by side I think. They're photoshopped from what I recall.

Yes, they're cut-outs from individual photos added to the same canvas. Unless you chop them up again and match the base sizes you can't use them for 1:1 comparisons.

I thought that was obvious just by looking at the base size on that picture.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 TBD wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The new Morats are significantly larger than standard models. Look at how they barely fit on the 25mm bases.

They are about the same size as Stephen Rao in the side by side picture of all of this month's releases (Rao's head even appears to be bigger).

Time will tell. Hopefully this is just a pricing oddity like the Magister Knights.

The "side by side pictures" aren't actually side by side I think. They're photoshopped from what I recall.

They are not really side by side, but looking at the bases compared to the models gives a good estimation, and Rao is placed almost next to one of the Vanguard. Only Uxia is in between them. Perhaps Rao is a giant of a man and that explains it.

I will stop complaining about this though and still get the box anyway as CA/Morats are my #1 faction at the moment. So don't get me wrong, they are still an awesome release! It's just that the undersized heads & too neatly looking haircuts plus the price surprise are minor disappointments.

Btw Uxia and the Gorgos are both awesome too. All three of these new release go straight to the top of my "to buy" list

TBD, did you see these in person? How did you find out the price of the Morat starter box?

If you know the price of the Gorgos too, I'm all ears

 RiTides wrote:
TBD, did you see these in person? How did you find out the price of the Morat starter box?

If you know the price of the Gorgos too, I'm all ears

44'95€ too http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2013/miniatures/gorgos-squad/

They updated the website with the news about the same time they were releasing the pics in FB

It will probably be the same price as the Iguana in the USA - $62.93 ($50.99 at the Warstore).

How is the price of the Morat starter a surprise, we known ahead of the time one of the model in the box is on a large base. That should of been the clue, that it was going to cost more.

CB no longer releases blisters of the models in the starters, do they? The more I look at them, the more I dislike them, but I want the Sogarat and the Oznat from the box.

The new regular Morats just look terrible to me. It's not even the size of the heads as much as the faces themselves. The sniper and the Spec-ops were the last male Morats to release without a helmet and both were a happy medium between original and new ape-face, but these go a little too far into gorillatown.

More importantly is how bulky these new ones look. The original Morats looked like roughly human shaped infantry wearing a light, tight bodysuit of armor with loose pants. These look like they have heavy armor with enough padding to shrug off a freight train.

I DO like the new weapons, wish we could get those on all the old models. It's alos posisble they'd be better with a different, more traditional paintjob. Angel is absolutely phenominal, but I wonder if his style is accenting and enhancing the parts I don't like.

It is a trend I've noticed. The releases appear to have more bulky attire when compared to the predecessors.

Personally, I love the new Morats. The models embody the name of the sectorial - Morat Aggression Force. These models look aggressive. They look like they're going to walk onto the table, kick down barricades and shoot the gak out of everything they see. The Sogorat looks ready to bring down an entire building with that Fauerbach.

Rhelyk wrote:More importantly is how bulky these new ones look. The original Morats looked like roughly human shaped infantry wearing a light, tight bodysuit of armor with loose pants. These look like they have heavy armor with enough padding to shrug off a freight train.

It's funny, looking at the old Vanguard and new on the previous pages helpfully linked by Kroot, the old models look bulkier, but in a bad, 2nd edition 40k way. The heads are exaggerated the way GW does, like a lot of 1st edition Infinity sculpts.

Also, comparing them, their kit isn't much different. The new models still have the baggy pants and armoured boots and knee pads of the old models, just without the ridiculous MC Hammer look. They still both have a very armoured torso. The biggest differences are the arms - the new Morats have much bulkier arms, probably to go with the 'red space ape' theme, and the head. If you're used to the old jack'o'lantern Morat heads, these look small by comparison. But now they're more proportioned to be human sized. Unfortunately, the bulkier arms and bulkier chest armour gives the impression the head is smaller than it is.

However, I absolutely love these models. I've wanted a Combined Army force for a long time, and initially looked at Morats. The heads just totally ruined the models for me. Now I'm trying to figure out how to expand this starter to 300pts without grabbing any old Morats.

I suppose this kind of change will always be divisive - there will always be people who prefer the older sculpts, although I think (trying to get away from subjective judgements) the technical ability of CB's sculptors has improved over the past 4 years and you can see evidence of that in these miniatures.

But, the changes to the 'style' are always going to come down to personal preference.

If you do prefer the older concept though no doubt you will still be able to get them for many years - its possible to get some of the other older, discontinued parts of the range even new and from shops in some places.

I just hate it when alien races just differ in their hairdo from humans.

Well most alien races in fiction resemble humans or resemble a bug blown out of proportions without taking into account anything biological about it.

Shasvastii are the most alien looking Aliens in Infinity and that is what I like about them, not only in models but in background too.

Morats look like some Japanese demons with their 3 horns to me at least, they are mamals and the "primate" buildup at least to our knowledge is not a bad one to base intelligent life on.

I thinks Morat faces mantain the same concept they have. They are just more finely sculpted, less goofy. I like them much better now. Edit: the only issue I have with the new Vanguard is that they are too similar. The poses should have been more different from each other.

I'm glad to see the Morats finally got mouths. The previous versions looked like they were wearing menpo/samurai masks, especially with the beard sneaking out beneath the solid red shape. The combination was a bit odd. Now, they are clearly faces.

Noir wrote:
How is the price of the Morat starter a surprise, we known ahead of the time one of the model in the box is on a large base. That should of been the clue, that it was going to cost more.

Because all the starters have been the same price up until now.

To be honest, and of course this just my opinion, who asked for an Ajax sized Sogarat in the starter box anyway? The size of the current (hmg) Sogarat is perfectly fine to begin with, and if CB suddenly wanted a bigger base Sogarat so badly they could have put him in a blister and include something else in the starter box to keep it's price in line with the rest of them.

My point is that it is all about decisions. Some will like them, some will like them less. CB could have done things slightly different here, but they chose to put a larger model in a starter box which drove up it's price by about 22%. It isn't thát big of a deal (although, I can imagine for people on a smaller gaming budget it might be), but still something to take notice of.

 TBD wrote:

Noir wrote:
How is the price of the Morat starter a surprise, we known ahead of the time one of the model in the box is on a large base. That should of been the clue, that it was going to cost more.

Because all the starters have been the same price up until now.

To be honest, and of course this just my opinion, who asked for an Ajax sized Sogarat in the starter box anyway? The size of the current (hmg) Sogarat is perfectly fine to begin with, and if CB suddenly wanted a bigger base Sogarat so badly they could have put him in a blister and include something else in the starter box to keep it's price in line with the rest of them.

Corvus Belli have not really been doing a huge amount of blisters when compared to boxes of late. Their stated goal is to REDUCE skus, not increase them.

They put the Alguacile Hacker and Hellcat "basic" profile in the Corregidor starter for a reason. There were multiple Wildcat profiles they could have added(Boarding Shotgun+Deployable Repeater, Hacker or Engineer) but instead the Alguacile Hacker and Hellcat were put in, likely so that they didn't have to release single blisters later.

Also I said this over on the Infinity forums, but price parity kind of takes a backseat to game parity. Compare the MAF box to the Shasvastii box.
With the MAF box and a box of Hungries, you have a 200 point force without worrying about going hugely over on SWC. Or you can avoid Hungries and add pretty much anything from the MAF list without worrying about topping SWC for that 200 points. The only real 'exception' to that is the Raicho, but that's mostly because of the 89/97 point costs rather than the SWC.

With the Shasvastii box? You've got a 153 point list...with 5.5 SWC if you choose to use the Lieutenant option from the box. You're going to be dropping the only Lieutenant option(Shrouded) from the box down to a standard rifle guy in order to add Cadmus-Naish Agent Sheskiin as your Lieutenant.
It's ridiculous that you are better off buying a collection of blisters(Sheskiin and Gwailos) than the 'starter' box for your chosen Sectorial.

My point is that it is all about decisions. Some will like them, some will like them less. CB could have done things slightly different here, but they chose to put a larger model in a starter box which drove up it's price by about 22%. It isn't thát big of a deal (although, I can imagine for people on a smaller gaming budget it might be), but still something to take notice of.

The Morat line is slated to get redone ala Corregidor. The reasoning behind "putting a larger model in a starter box" is likely the same that resulted in a comparatively useless Hacker who should be fielded with a Link Team of her accompanying unit being put into Corregidor's box rather than a Hacker from the unit which would have benefited from having their Hacker option in the box(Wildcats).
Their reasoning?
"Players won't need more than one so put it in the box to add some variety to what you're getting".

Sound reasoning, but a little less snark please!

Remember, this is 2014 now!

 Alpharius wrote:
Sound reasoning, but a little less snark please!

Remember, this is 2014 now!

I wouldn't want Kan any other way!

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Sound reasoning, but a little less snark please!

Remember, this is 2014 now!

I wouldn't want Kan any other way!

I wouldn't say that the snark was unwarranted. More product (material) = higher cost. Pretty basic economics. To state that prior precedence on box prices should limit the scope of all future endeavors (i.e. limiting the size of models to fix cost) is to invite disbelief and/or confusion in anyone who wants to see growth and innovation from Corvus Belli.

In Kan, that manifests as snark. TBD did state it was just his opinion and something to take notice of, but the implication of, erm, something is there.

Rule #1 really does require less snark.

Non-negotiable.

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Sound reasoning, but a little less snark please!

Remember, this is 2014 now!

I wouldn't want Kan any other way!

I wouldn't say that the snark was unwarranted. More product (material) = higher cost. Pretty basic economics. To state that prior precedence on box prices should limit the scope of all future endeavors (i.e. limiting the size of models to fix cost) is to invite disbelief and/or confusion in anyone who wants to see growth and innovation from Corvus Belli.

In Kan, that manifests as snark. TBD did state it was just his opinion and something to take notice of, but the implication of, erm, something is there.

I don't think there is anything there at all, and is markedly not the case when you've looked at CB's releases over the past few years. This pack contains a bigger miniature that requires more material, ergo it costs more. CB could have put another miniature in that set, but they've obviously thought about it and gone for one that will create a cool starter set. TBH looking at that miniature (and how good a sculpt it is) I can't see why anyone would complain, but there you.

CB had a price increase earlier in 2013. They were apologetic about it, but it was the first one in 4 years and they made an official release to the fans why they were doing it and that it was unavoidable. To imply that they are now doing a GW-style 'bait and switch', of basically reducing value for the customer in an underhand way, I think is being a bit disingenuous and not very fair on CB's motivations at all.

 Alpharius wrote:
Rule #1 really does require less snark.

Non-negotiable.

I heard a Jotum's foot coming down.

By the way, that Avatar, it's just not you, mate.

Just pre-ordered the Gorgos from the Warstore