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After getting over my fanboy reaction and looked at the models again, do the MI and HI models seem overly big/out of scale?

Or is it just me?

Pics are gone for me.....?

overtyrant wrote:
(Hawk Wargames starter set for DZC is still the best out there im afraid, you even get a full rulebook!).

So you'd rather be forced to pay for something they're giving away for free?

Putting the full rulebook in would have pushed the price up more. The quickstart rules let people get into the game, then go download the full rules when they want to, or buy it if they wish.


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 MRPYM wrote:
After getting over my fanboy reaction and looked at the models again, do the MI and HI models seem overly big/out of scale?

Or is it just me?

The Father Knight does, almost like they were channeling Ajax/Tarik. The others look along the lines of current sculpts.

I'm not getting into the free rulebook download discussion again, if you haven't read the thread then there you go....

 cincydooley wrote:
Whoa.

Yes. I will spend money on this.

Fine by me, it's not an argument I feel like winning today anyway. I've got hobbying to do.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Sorry, you're just now noticing that?

Noticed the trend in models for a while, but the 2D art has stayed closer to anime roots. I was going to blame lazy CG sculptors since I know anime styling can be done in CG sculpted miniatures. But now the 2D art is abandoning the anime aesthetic... ~sigh~

Iain.

You must be new if you think Kan was talking about the art work and not the so called cheesecake models.

Compel wrote:I'm watching the BOW video now.

The mat is rather pants really, it's basically a poster - it's basically the Dropzone Commander mats than something proper like say, Deadzone's. At least Dropzone doesn't really sell it as more than a guide (heck, they even say 'hey there's a poster on the other side).

What did you expect from the price, a 40+ MAS mat? No really did people really think it wasn't going to be a paper mat? I would be surprised if the markers (not templetes) aren't per-cut out from the same stuff they make their boxes out of.

Anyways, love the starter just need to see who going to buy the PanO off me.

The video is very good too, about time. I like what I've seen, I think I'll be in.

 MRPYM wrote:
After getting over my fanboy reaction and looked at the models again, do the MI and HI models seem overly big/out of scale?

They're definitely larger than previous HI. My JSA samurai look pretty shrimpy by comparison, but then again they're supposed to be nimble & deadly.
Keep in mind that the HI in this starter are among the slowest & toughest types for these two factions
Compare these new HI to new Morats, Iguana Pilot, Ectros ... they look about right for where infinity has been heading.

Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
After getting over my fanboy reaction and looked at the models again, do the MI and HI models seem overly big/out of scale?

They're definitely larger than previous HI. My JSA samurai look pretty shrimpy by comparison, but then again they're supposed to be nimble & deadly.
Keep in mind that the HI in this starter are among the slowest & toughest types for these two factions
Compare these new HI to new Morats, Iguana Pilot, Ectros ... they look about right for where infinity has been heading.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing to happen?

 Sangarn wrote:
its recent: the gak started with Stephan Rao, 6 month ago ?

they clearly want to grab USA people with comics aesthetics: bodybuilder and pinups
i'm not a huge fan of manga either but the genre difference (male/female) makes all this laughable;
I miss the order sergent perfection era

But nothing that massive conversion could solve

BoW put the video in ... 360 p xD

*snort* It always amuses me when people think the sexy aesthetic is new to Infinity. In fact, I addressed that "Infinity models are supposed to be sexy" in this very thread.

Thing is, the reason you may not remember me saying that is... it was three years ago. (2011/06/27) It's actually from before you (Sangarn) registered your account.

With N3 we'll all need a refresher game or two to get in the swing of things. The play mat helps delineates the deployment zones from the middle of the battle field for newbies.

I was initially disappointed with a paper mat & card stock buildings. However, nesting infinity boxes in the buildings makes up for it entirely. Brilliant & simple solution that makes use of previously unutilized packaging.

It's a step up from useless gothic ruins + gross plastic trees (3rd ed. 40k), or the crashed ship components (battle for Mac. 40k) both of which did nothing for the game but occupy space.


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 MRPYM wrote:

Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 MRPYM wrote:
After getting over my fanboy reaction and looked at the models again, do the MI and HI models seem overly big/out of scale?

They're definitely larger than previous HI. My JSA samurai look pretty shrimpy by comparison, but then again they're supposed to be nimble & deadly.
Keep in mind that the HI in this starter are among the slowest & toughest types for these two factions
Compare these new HI to new Morats, Iguana Pilot, Ectros ... they look about right for where infinity has been heading.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing to happen?

You're right, that single aspect unto itself is not great.
While many things have gotten bigger; I'd point to the newer Janissary to counter. He's a wee-man compared to the linebackers on the bottom of the Haqq page.
Not everything is getting bigger. But everything they've updated thus far has been a noticeable improvement in quality & unity of the faction's aesthetic.

 NuclearMessiah wrote:

As an aside (also quoting this video to this page), watching this video on my TV via Roku makes the wait for the box nearly unbearable...

My own biased opinion, mother of god that is a nice starter set and thank goodness I have a friend to split it with because it will be easier to not start nomads when I can just give those miniatures to him and keep the shiny Pano guys.

I'm going to politely ask if we could all refrain from slagging off on the USA in an attempt to explain why you don't like the models/art direction...

Thanks!

 guardpiper wrote:
My own biased opinion, mother of god that is a nice starter set and thank goodness I have a friend to split it with because it will be easier to not start nomads when I can just give those miniatures to him and keep the shiny Pano guys.

My only let down is that it did not seem to have a painting guide and a build guide to help beginners in the hobby part of it (at least thus far) . Other than, I was actually impressed so far by it and I wanted to at least start a second faction. This also adds to my PanO so this is a double wammy for me.

make the pretty pictures come baaaack!

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Knight wrote:
This is the moment is where I part ways with Infinity. I'm simply not liking the new art direction they went with PanO, I was worried it'll come to this after seeing the interview.

I know where you are coming from. Infinity seems to be shuffling away from its anime roots and more towards a European sci-fi style.

It's making me a bit sad as well. Some (most, actually) of the new stuff is amazing, but I'll stick with the old stuff. The new PanO is VERY bulky. Looks good on some models (I'm LOVING that new Father Knight) and new male Fulsiliers, but I like the older akalis a lot more and while the pose is MUCH improved, the new ORC doesn't look at all like an ORC to me.




That first ORC model is what got me into Infinity, way back when it was the only model Corvus Belli was teasing pictures of and even with the awkwardly held combi rifle. The new one is much different: better looking back armor, better looking forearm armor, but the thigh armor is terrible. The butt-plate now has seperate buttocks and shows a lot more triple strength myomer bundles, which doesn't look better AND can't be as protective, I'm sure. New shin armor is decent, but I loved the shape of the old ones. The real problem is the upper body, the chesht and shoulders are HUMONGUS! And the head dropped the single crest with 2 fluted for an axtra flute on top and wider, more swept-back ear/antennea, which widens the head a LOT. The newly added neck armor covers up the chin. All in all, it's a great model, but it is NOT an ORC trooper All of the Nomads figs are a vast improvement (except pointy McChestygirl). I can lay similar criticisms at the akali, but I never liked akalis quite as much as ORCs.

Heck, every one of th enew PanO has similar changes. CB outright stated in a BoW interview they were deliberately changing the aesthetic of the game. While the quality and scultping and details are vastly improved, I wish they weren't deviating so far from the older versions*.


*Except the new Mobile Brigada, that thing is fan-bleeping-tastic!

I guess I'm just not seeing this drastic shift that many are...?

To me, it looks a lot more like CB just getting...'better' at doing things now?

Some of these older sculpts are...not really good.

At all.

I suppose maybe there's a bit of 'genericizing' (to coin a word!) going on?

Maybe?

Overall though, I love almost everything I'm seeing here!

Yeah, when I see comparisons to older models and how they have more 'character', to me the older models just look flat out worse.

 -Loki- wrote:
Yeah, when I see comparisons to older models and how they have more 'character', to me the older models just look flat out worse.

Couldn't agree more. I love most everything about the new art direction.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Yeah, when I see comparisons to older models and how they have more 'character', to me the older models just look flat out worse.

Couldn't agree more. I love most everything about the new art direction.

I also agree. The old orcs for instance were some of the models that I'd look at and wonder what CB was thinking when they designed them. They just didn't feel "heavy" to me compared with the other models in the range which is now no longer the case.

Noir wrote:
You must be new if you think Kan was talking about the art work and not the so called cheesecake models.

Not new, just took a decade vacation from the forums.

Have no problem is cheesecake (or beefcake for that matter). I have a problem with posing... with both female line troops. Previous Alguaciles were all biz all the time. Again, no problem with bare midriff or high heels, problem with leaning against soda machine.

Iain.

Considering updates for basic HI choices & LI cheerleaders choices, one cannot argue that CB is ruining their aesthetic. Their artists have a much better handle on scale & realistic dynamic posing.

Janissary, Hsien, Mobile Brigada, Intruder, All the Morats, Shaolin Monks, Fusiliers, Highlanders, Alguacil, Moiras. All superior re-sculpts.
Nobody will cry when/if Yu Jing Invincibles, Zanshi, Tunguska Securitate, CA Charonotids & a whole bunch of the uglier shasvasti are redone.
Not everything CB has done of late is awesome though. Tohaa initially showed promise, but considering their character in the fluff the newer releases have been underwhelming. So many buckles & straps

Nobody likes to see models they spent time lovingly painting replaced, but CB cannot keep expanding their catalog.
Half the fun of being a veteran player is ardently using ugly ancient models. There is no better joy than explaining to newbloods what that hideous blob of pewter is. (I played Tyranids in 2nd edition, I've seen some ugly things in my time)

Speaking of being set in ones ways... Very pleased to see CB's commitment to stick with metal minis going forward


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Chairman Aeon wrote:

Noir wrote:
You must be new if you think Kan was talking about the art work and not the so called cheesecake models.

Not new, just took a decade vacation from the forums.

Have no problem is cheesecake (or beefcake for that matter). I have a problem with posing... with both female line troops. Previous Alguaciles were all biz all the time. Again, no problem with bare midriff or high heels, problem with leaning against soda machine.

Iain.

The ladies in Icestorm do have some Lordosis/Swayback going on, especially the Rev. Healer.
Sexy death commandos gotta have curves!

Change of tactics, let me put this in 40k terms:


All these old Infinity models are the same way. They came out and they were AWESOME when they came out, and now they're showing their age compared to the newer stuff, but instead of getting cleaned up versions, we're getting reimagined versions that hit a lot of the same notes and similar shapes, but the details aren't the same. The little things like the shape of the helmet or the inset on the greaves. The new ones are "better", I don't know how many times I need to repeat that, but they just aren't the same

Or are you going to try and argue the JJ Abrams Enterprise is better than the original just because it's more detailed? It's the same shape, after all. And it -IS- more detailed, it -IS- better animated, it -IS- more powerful. It is absolutely better in every technical sense, but that doesn't necessarily trump years of loving the original. And like the remastered original Star Trek series, all I really want is that same exact ORC updated to current levels of detail and posing, instead I got the JJ Abrams ORC, which is totally cool in it's own right, but its not the ORC I grew up with.

Capice?

I write this as someone who has Games workshop models that are approximately twenty five years old, and has been collecting daemon models long enough to have three or four different versions of the same model...

You aren't ever going to see a model resculpt that's going to satisfy your "the same but better" criteria. Even if someone tries to capture the same spirit as a previous sculpt, it won't and can't be the same.

Edit: Counter argument: Star Trek the-original-series Klingons and aliens in general vs. Star Trek The Motion Picture (the original one) Klingons.

I don't think the differences are quite as big as the Mk2/3 and Mk7 difference - and also note that the early Space Marine mark armours are all around the same age apart from the Mk6 (beakie) which is the only older one.

It looks more like a translation from an old Mk6 to new Mk6, (which did have a few detail changes), albeit there are a few more differences. I think the Helmet and Backpack could have looked more like the original, but the limbs and chest (apart from the kneepads) are basically a refresh.

The differences might to due to the blame from the design of knights leaking through.

At least it's not like the Cadians in 40k where the models were updated and were worse in every way, including more detail.

While I am pleased with the miniatures themselves, I wonder if they will release some of these miniatures separately. Otherwise, if we want any of them, we need to pick them up from third parties or spend €90 to get the entire set. I really don't like the trend they are setting moving to bigger and more expensive boxed sets.

This wouldn't be the Infinity N&R thread without some comment of "OMG! Bewbs! " and then someone new to the thread scratching their head with a puzzled expression, wondering why Overtyrant is complaining about the free downloadable rules

I kind of sea Kalamadea's point. I feel the same way about Space Marines, as much as some of the new sculpts are awesome, I will always have a special place in my heart for the old Rogue Trader-era metals. Same too with the new ORC.

The problem is, what are the sculptors meant to do here? Arguments about division of the butt-plate armour aside ( ) the new sculpt is the evolution of the old one. It represents the change (and improvement) in sculpting style by CB over the past 5 years, as the look of the game has developed over time. The issue is that this won't be a change that everyone will like (art and design being, by its very nature, subjective), but one thing I do know is that had they released a sculpt that was a variation of the old one, with a changed body pose but otherwise the same then the complains would have been a lot more (from me at least), and the sculpt would have been at odds with the other current releases.

This one, like all of the sculpts in this set, represent a tremendous amount of sculpting prowess, skill and effort on the part of the designers. Like other releases coming out of Spain and France at the moment, they are absolutely dripping with it, and we are lucky enough to be getting these miniatures from sculptors who are at the top of their game, and have got the financial backing of a company that is just about large enough for a release such as this to be a possibility.

I think Infinity: JJ Abrams version is one of the more accurate descriptions you could give to the new art. If you don't see it or like it over the old style, it's totally fine and cool. It's only natural that with the changes you're going to leave some of the market behind.

The new Akal's backpack is horrible, it simply isn't on pair with Crusader Brether (blends with entire miniature) or old winged Akal (this one has class) or Kirpal (Brethren style).

I love the old ORC, the current looks so odd. Adding armour to satisfy the rule of cool is simply silly. The bulky torso... I hope you have top notch servos to support all of the upper weight.

Older models simply have character, the hints of technology and how the models are focused in the moment, I know few others that were impressed at level of miniaturisation PanO has achieved. That class is gone, replaced by the need for more action oriented posses and bling, bling armour, excuse the lack for better term. Machinist is the model that is frequently mocked but once you hold it you can only marvel how much thought went into the model.

If only new Fusiliers wouldn't have the backpack, I can understand the reference but we're not marching and we're not playing Napoleonics in space. The female would be ideal... if she wouldn't look like she's worried she'll miss her pedicure appointment. Yeah, CB throws this (fool's errand to argue with it) and I'm not a fan of it and I really wanted to use her as PC character for the RPG ever since I've seen her on artwork piece. I guess I'll go with the old Kamau.