Imperial Guard: Shotguns... Or Lasguns?

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**TacticalGenius**

So recently I got back into guard after taking a hiatus from them and switching to space marines.
I foolishly gave away my existing guard, and now have to start from scratch.

I was looking at the IG Veterans entry in their dex, and found that they could switch their lasguns for shotguns. I thought that might be kind of cool.

The thing is, I can't decide;

Shotguns I get assault 2, but I only get 12" range. And when I get hit from 24" away by the majority of SM players at my Lgs... it's frustatrating, to say the least.
Another thing that bothers me about shotguns; Assault 2 is all well and good, but guard being as fragile as they are, wouldn't I be trying to keep them out of Assault?

Whereas, lasguns, I can go 2 @ 12 or less, and 1 at 24. Without moving, I think. (Please tell me whether I have this wrong or not.)

I also gotta ask, I left my rulebook at my dads, Weapons with "assault x" (x representing no. of shots) the wielder can still move in his move phase and get off his full amount of shots, correct?

Thanks!

Tg.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Shotguns are good if you give the Vets Melta Guns and Plasma Guns, then mount them in a Chimera. This way they can ride in style towards their intended target with relative impunity, as well as completely disregard the Lasgun's 24 inch option (since you'll always be on the move). Since 6 people can shoot out of a Chimera, you can probably just circlestraf the opponent in a bunch of drive by shootings rather than getting tangled up in assaults. Plus, you always have the option to assault (if you're out of the chimera and have equipped only Meltas).

Also, pardon the meme but CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

**TacticalGenius**

Thank you for your swift reply, I really like the sound of that spw loadout in a chimera, it sounds like it would be incredibly nasty to be on the recieving end of.

And I'm glad you got the tg reference, I couldn't decide on a moniker, and had just recently read /tg/s meme on CREEEEED. Couldn't stop laughing.

If your interested, do you want to friend me?

Tg

**MechaEmperor7000**

Ailaros is the local Guard expert and would provide better advice than me. I own the codex, but my Guard army is little more than a fledging force (it technically does not possess the legal compulsory selections).

**Brother SRM**

I run vets with shotguns regularly. In my army I have a squad with shotguns, meltaguns, a demo charge and a power fist. The idea is that when their Chimera blows up, they can stay on the move and act as a sort of counter-assault unit. The problem is, 10 man squads of Guardsmen don't fare well in hand to hand combat at all!

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make that much of a difference. You'll always want them on the move anyway, and you probably won't want to be assaulting all that often. Thematically it is totally awesome though, and it gives you the chance to make some cool conversions like the ones I made:

**Melissia**

With shotguns, you can fire all your weapons and assault. This might seem like a bad thing, but when you're firing two flamers and a heavy flamer and you have carapace armor on, those shotguns add a lot of umph to the assault.

**martin74**

i agree with melissia on this one. shotguns are good if your vet squad is made to assault. I run a vet squad, three melta guns, and give them the demolitions doctirne. often enough, if i miss with melta guns, i can usualy assault the dreadnaught pretty and win pretty easily. If it is a troop unit, the shotguns usualy get enough wounds in to help out before the assault phase.

**Polonius**

Melta Vets benefit more from shotguns.

any vet squad with a heavy weapon benefits more from lasguns.

Mobile Plasma vets lean more towards lasguns.

98% of the time it won't matter much. I've run lasguns in my vet squads because I don't want to convert 24 praetorian shotgunners for two years now, and haven't really missed it.

**Insurgency Walker**

I almost always run some shotgun vets. I've never said to myself," darn, I wish this unit had Lasguns." Although using the WH codex to run an Arbites army I have thought," darn I wish this unit had Hellguns" Shotguns in moderation are great.

**TacticalGenius**

Guys, thanks for your replies, I have made my decision to go with shotguns and meltas. I frequently face a cc dreadnaught, a land raider, a speeder, and a rhino. I think I should be able to blow a decent sized hole in my budda line with the vets and my vanquisher.

Thanks again

Tg

**martin74**

if you see alot of armour, give the vets the demo doctirne. you will be happy to spend that 30 points

**Jaon**

Eurgh....Vanquishers...

If they could fire BC shells too, hell theyd be great. As they are, major bleagh.

**Stoned Monkey**

I added shotguns to some vets for a modding experiment. I played a relatively small game against Tyranids and Basically saw them as expendable. I found that if I could get them behind the main horde they could run about bitch slapping the weird looking dudes with cannons on their backs ( don't know their name) and just hit soft targets. Then he got irritated and chucked his pride and joy hive tyrant at them (which they wounded). Although they were steamrollered at the end they took out his only ranged units when he was fighting guards. Fun to model, look great, I guess it just comes down to what you want to do with them:
throw rocks from a hill - take Lasguns.
Whip his rear and get swatted - take Shotguns

**TheCaptain**

To put it simply; shotguns are a good choice for a bad use of Veterans.

If you're running Flamervets with Carapace, then yeah, they should have Shotguns.

But putting Flamers and Carapace on Veterans just isn't smart.

Shotguns were a 5th edition option back when you could only shoot at 12 inches with the lasgun if you moved. So on the move, Shotguns had the advantage of assaulting.

Now on the move, Lasguns have range, and Shotguns still have the advantage of assaulting. The only problem is that IG prefers range to assault any day.

If you're running Plasmavets, give them lasguns. The ranges sync up and you shouldn't throw Plasmavets into assault. Its a waste.

If you're running Meltavets/Demovets, give them lasguns so that they're not useless outside of 12", and you shouldn't throw Meltavets/Demovets into assault. Its a waste.

Hope that cleared up why shotguns are pretty much pointless except for conversions and count-as in 6th edition with changes to rapid fire.

-TheCaptain

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TacticalGenius wrote:
Guys, thanks for your replies, I have made my decision to go with shotguns and meltas. I frequently face a cc dreadnaught, a land raider, a speeder, and a rhino. I think I should be able to blow a decent sized hole in my budda line with the vets and my vanquisher.

Thanks again

Tg

You do know that if you're assaulting any of those things, whether you fire lasguns or shotguns at it before assaulting makes no difference, because neither can hurt it?

**Griddlelol**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
. This way they can ride in style towards their intended target with relative impunity, as well as completely disregard the Lasgun's 24 inch option (since you'll always be on the move).

Note: this is incorrect. You do not give up the 24" range when moving with rapid fire weapons.

As a rule of thumb:

Plasma Vets: Lasguns. They mesh well. You'll never be assaulting since you'd waste the far superior plasma gun shots

Metla Vets with Demolitions (or Krak Grenades, but who takes krak grenades?): Shotguns. These guys will want to assault, on the rare occasion they find a MC sitting in the open to strap Melta-bombs to it.

Melta Vets: These guys it really doesn't matter. There might be a time you will take an enemy squad low enough to finish them in assault, but it's pretty rare. Go with which ever looks coolest.

If you're taking any other kind of weapons a vet squad, you're doing it wrong, so the lasgun/shotgun choice is pretty irrelevant.

**Cheesedoodler**

Griddlelol wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
. This way they can ride in style towards their intended target with relative impunity, as well as completely disregard the Lasgun's 24 inch option (since you'll always be on the move).

Note: this is incorrect. You do not give up the 24" range when moving with rapid fire weapons.

@Stoned Monkey
What are you doing posting in a thread which has been peacefully resting for near to TWO WHOLE YEARS?

@ Grid
It was true when he wrote it.... back in May of 2011 (for 5th Edition of the rules)
With the changes to rapid fire in 6th, the question is mostly irrelevant.

**reds8n**

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.