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 kenshin620 wrote:
Meh I think I rather take my chances with Mierce at this point than Defiance

You can't compare them, Mierce is gaming another 28mm fantasy miniature game that uses only like 10 metal miniatures(we only have 50000 of those), but Defiance games is making a large(r) scale sci fi game that uses entire platoons/companies of plastic 28mm near future soldiers. Not very many of those; closest I can think of is Mantic but they're copying 40k so that doesn't count.

Now tell me, do you want another 28mm metal pseudo viking or minotaur or do you want a plastic this

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:
Meh I think I rather take my chances with Mierce at this point than Defiance

You can't compare them, Mierce is gaming another 28mm fantasy miniature game that uses only like 10 metal miniatures(we only have 50000 of those), but Defiance games is making a large(r) scale sci fi game that uses entire platoons/companies of plastic 28mm near future soldiers. Not very many of those; closest I can think of is Mantic but they're copying 40k so that doesn't count.

Now tell me, do you want another 28mm metal pseudo viking or minotaur or do you want a plastic this

Personally, I want both

Mantic is copying 40k? If by "copying" you mean platoon-level gaming, I'd say both Warpath and Alien War are both "copies" of 40k then...

PresidentOfAsia wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:
Meh I think I rather take my chances with Mierce at this point than Defiance

You can't compare them, Mierce is gaming another 28mm fantasy miniature game that uses only like 10 metal miniatures(we only have 50000 of those), but Defiance games is making a large(r) scale sci fi game that uses entire platoons/companies of plastic 28mm near future soldiers. Not very many of those; closest I can think of is Mantic but they're copying 40k so that doesn't count.

Now tell me, do you want another 28mm metal pseudo viking or minotaur or do you want a plastic this

1. Mierce makes Resin Minis, not metal

2. We WANT Plastic, we dont want a bunch of fake promises (Want Hardsuits? Dont worry, they'll come in July! Dont know which July though, maybe 2014?)

3. They both have extremely shaky beginnings of taking money, I think we can compare them. Especially since defiance was thinking of doing a KS which Mierce is doing already

Meanwhile I'm getting my plastic crack from Dreamforge on Monday from Mark's kickstarter....miniatures made in China by the company Tony blames for all his ills...relatively on time and, by all accounts of those that have already received their goods, high quality plastic miniatures...

 judgedoug wrote:

Mantic is copying 40k? If by "copying" you mean platoon-level gaming, I'd say both Warpath and Alien War are both "copies" of 40k then...

Mantic is copying GW in that not a single idea of theirs hasn't come from a GW game. Dreadball is literally Bloodbowl in the future, Warpath is all bargain-bin versions of 40k armies, Kings of War is the same for Fantasy, and so on. Defiance is aiming for skirmish to 40k scaled battles, and while some of their models are definitely usable for 40k, they're not going for the throat with the IPs.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
Now tell me, do you want another 28mm metal pseudo viking or minotaur or do you want a plastic this

You will not get a plastic "that". You might, in the distant future, get an inferior design in an inferior material, but Tony & Co have provided two companies worth of evidence that they cannot do the concepts justice.

Tony & Co have provided two companies worth of evidence that they cannot do the concepts justice.

Or run a business.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Mantic is copying 40k? If by "copying" you mean platoon-level gaming, I'd say both Warpath and Alien War are both "copies" of 40k then...

Mantic is copying GW in that not a single idea of theirs hasn't come from a GW game. Dreadball is literally Bloodbowl in the future, Warpath is all bargain-bin versions of 40k armies, Kings of War is the same for Fantasy, and so on. Defiance is aiming for skirmish to 40k scaled battles, and while some of their models are definitely usable for 40k, they're not going for the throat with the IPs.

Dreadball is literally Blood Bowl in the future...
hmm. I've been playing Blood Bowl since the early 1990's, in many many leagues, and I'm intimately familiar with the rules and setting. I've been playing Dreadball since I got my Kickstarter package. Since you are also familiar enough with Dreadball and Blood Bowl, could you care to explain to me how they are "literally" the same? I personally can "literally" find nothing about the two that are the same.

I'd also like to know how Kings of War is like Warhammer Fantasy at all? Having played a half-dozen armies in Warhammer Fantasy since waaay back when 4th edition came out 0 1992 ish?, and now having played Kings of War since I got my hardback KoW rulebook, I'm also pretty intimately familiar with both of those. See, I can't think of any similarities between the ruleset, other than perhaps they both use d6's. In fact, I can draw more parallels with Hail Caesar.

Now, I haven't played Warpath, so I can't comment on it being "bargain-bin versions of 40k armies", and I'm also not sure if by that statement you're referring to the rules or to the figures. From what I understand the rules are nothing like 40k. From what I see, their Marauders are basically Orks without hydrocephalic heads, sure...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Justyn wrote:

Tony & Co have provided two companies worth of evidence that they cannot do the concepts justice.

Or run a business.

I have found it pretty interesting that the moment Tony left/got fired/whatever Wargames Factory is the moment their quality tripled.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Mantic is copying 40k? If by "copying" you mean platoon-level gaming, I'd say both Warpath and Alien War are both "copies" of 40k then...

Mantic is copying GW in that not a single idea of theirs hasn't come from a GW game. Dreadball is literally Bloodbowl in the future, Warpath is all bargain-bin versions of 40k armies, Kings of War is the same for Fantasy, and so on. Defiance is aiming for skirmish to 40k scaled battles, and while some of their models are definitely usable for 40k, they're not going for the throat with the IPs.

Wait, people never realized mantic was copying the heck out of GW?

I mean, I'll admit I can be clueless at times but really?

That said, their version of squats are pretty cool, and have almost gotten me to buy into it several times. Only through extreme effort of will have I resisted so far...

I'm right there with you, MrMoustaffa. The Forgefathers and the Veer-Myn are the two factions that are very characterful and, imho, specifically aimed at taking advantage of age old demand from GW fans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have we actually run out of stuff to say about Defiance?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They said on Facebook that they got hacked, with Google ads appearing on their website (which I never even saw) but that...wait for it.... new stuff is on its way!

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'm right there with you, MrMoustaffa. The Forgefathers and the Veer-Myn are the two factions that are very characterful and, imho, specifically aimed at taking advantage of age old demand from GW fans.

I have to say I like their Forge Fathers _a lot_. For a long time I was sad I had sold my Squat army. But really, Squats kinda sucked anyway. I had cool nordic powered armor troops, guys in flak vests and goggles, and then bikers on trikes. WTF kind of aesthetic cohesion was that? It was terribly fun to play back in 2nd edition 40k though.

I STILL haven't gotten that friggin gunny.

Might have to sacrifice some dice to the dice gods at this rate...

Defiance Games is doing well for a miniature company that started off without a kickstarter, I'll definitily contribute to their kickstarter should they do one as long it means they release the hardsuits faster.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
Defiance Games is doing well for a miniature company that started off without a kickstarter

Doing well...

Really?

Did you not see the poster right above you?



If they are doing well, I will hate to see them doing bad

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
Defiance Games is doing well for a miniature company that started off without a kickstarter,

Because that's how all businesses started, right?

 kenshin620 wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
Defiance Games is doing well for a miniature company that started off without a kickstarter

Doing well...

Really?

Did you not see the poster right above you?



If they are doing well, I will hate to see them doing bad

What I meant is that they had a strong start with the Marines

PresidentOfAsia wrote:


What I meant is that they had a strong start with the Marines

They had their issues, but far less with the marines, I have stated that had they stuck with what they got to work that they may be on firmer ground, have less people upset with them and be off to making profitability and fulfilled their orders closer to on time than almost a year away from promised dates. By switching horse midstream, they have lost much. Their reputation is shot, they have delays backlogged and they have more teething problems for the different material.
I got my Marines and Gunny in a timely manner, then suddenly they declared they were going a new route with the bugs and Germans, and then it all went crappola. hence why I am not holding my breath for the hard-suits as they need to get old orders settled.

 kenshin620 wrote:
If they are doing well, I will hate to see them doing bad

"Hey guys, little problem with the new hardsuits: they're on fire. Not to worry, we'll still be shipping out on time."

"Another update for you: for some reason, the delivery truck is on fire. We're not sure yet what happened, but it might take longer to get your models out to you."

I've liked Defiance's art, but their miniatures end up looking very meh . The thing that actively makes me dislike them as a company, however is that there is always someone else to blame for what is wrong. Compare this to another recent start up company, who when there is a hiccup in the process, comes right out and says 'sorry guys, my fault, this is what happened, this is how we are going to fix it, we learned something and will try not to let it happen again'. Yes I'm talking about Dreamforge here. KS or no KS.... he takes ownership for mistakes. Defiance passes the buck at every opportunity. I'd bet they haven't done a KS because they know there isn't enough consumer confidence in their ability to deliver.

Mantic are very much trying to be GW lite. If 25 percent of the miniatures they sell, other than Dreadball, get used for their own rules I would be immensely surprised. That said I really like the look of many of the Forgefathers and Veer-myn. Great stuff there. They are obviously scratching an itch many people had.

Doing well? Seriously? My UAMC marines arrived 6 months late, my bugs arrived 5 months late, and the June/July 2012 roadmap is now 8 months behind. And people who paid for their bugs the same time as me still haven't gotten them! How about the people who paid for the "Now Shipping" panzergrenadiers who are also still waiting?

No, nonono, they are NOT doing well. The only reason they have any goodwill left on the planet is because that Gary dude is working for free to help fix their public image.

Let me also say I started off supporting Defiance 100%, preordering my UAMC back in 2011 or whatever and feeling awesome I was supporting a 100% made in America company. They've spend the last year slowly grinding away support so now they're basically an anecdotal joke.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Justyn wrote:

Mantic are very much trying to be GW lite. If 25 percent of the miniatures they sell, other than Dreadball, get used for their own rules I would be immensely surprised. That said I really like the look of many of the Forgefathers and Veer-myn. Great stuff there. They are obviously scratching an itch many people had.

I'd agree with that first statement for the first few years of Mantic's existence, but it's pretty obvious that since their KoW KS, they are moving away from that image pretty rapidly. Kings of War is (imho) a superior ruleset to WHFB8 and Mantic is making models that have no GW analog anymore (Orc Fight Wagons? Dwarves riding giant badgers? A whole army of angels?) In my gaming club we went from 6 WHFB players to 7 Kings of War players and 0 WHFB players (we picked up a non-fantasy player just because the rules are so tight).

 Brother SRM wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Mantic is copying 40k? If by "copying" you mean platoon-level gaming, I'd say both Warpath and Alien War are both "copies" of 40k then...

Mantic is copying GW in that not a single idea of theirs hasn't come from a GW game. Dreadball is literally Bloodbowl in the future, Warpath is all bargain-bin versions of 40k armies, Kings of War is the same for Fantasy, and so on. Defiance is aiming for skirmish to 40k scaled battles, and while some of their models are definitely usable for 40k, they're not going for the throat with the IPs.

Dreadball is nothing like bloodbowl unless you consider being an 'american football-like boardgame' as being totally alike. I know this because I spent a miserable 2 hours playing dreadball with someone who basically KEPT complaining during those 2 hours how bloodbowl did this, bloodbowl did that etc, how in bloodbowl you can totally shut down people etc etc, how letting people roll at least one dice is too RNG etc etc. -_-

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I STILL haven't gotten that friggin gunny.

Might have to sacrifice some dice to the dice gods at this rate...

E-mail Gary Pelletier: gary@defiancegames.com

He'll get you sorted out with no complaints.



And, Defiance Games going well? Yeah, I like the people, but even I'm of the opinion they're running on fumes. If they could get the hardsuits out without a hitch, I think they'll be able to do okay, but I don't know if they'll be able to stay in business that long. Hope so; I really like the hardsuit design.

Again, we like the design, but will the finished product represent it faithfully?

And I agree, my flagging enthusiasm is directed at the company itself, I'm convinced they're pretty good guys around a BBQ with a brewski.

Sining wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Mantic is copying 40k? If by "copying" you mean platoon-level gaming, I'd say both Warpath and Alien War are both "copies" of 40k then...

Mantic is copying GW in that not a single idea of theirs hasn't come from a GW game. Dreadball is literally Bloodbowl in the future, Warpath is all bargain-bin versions of 40k armies, Kings of War is the same for Fantasy, and so on. Defiance is aiming for skirmish to 40k scaled battles, and while some of their models are definitely usable for 40k, they're not going for the throat with the IPs.

Dreadball is nothing like bloodbowl unless you consider being an 'american football-like boardgame' as being totally alike. I know this because I spent a miserable 2 hours playing dreadball with someone who basically KEPT complaining during those 2 hours how bloodbowl did this, bloodbowl did that etc, how in bloodbowl you can totally shut down people etc etc, how letting people roll at least one dice is too RNG etc etc. -_-

I'd say it's more like hockey-basketball with 3 goals per side.

Dreadball reactions vary wildly. Most of my BB league has played DB and loved it. Finishing a game in 1/3 the time is really nice too.

Well I enjoy some good Mantic bashing like the next guy, but this is the official Defiance Games thread. Please keep the Mantic bashing to the Mantic threads where it belongs

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Again, we like the design, but will the finished product represent it faithfully?

And I agree, my flagging enthusiasm is directed at the company itself, I'm convinced they're pretty good guys around a BBQ with a brewski.

Well, the minis they've released have resembled the renders, even if the renders don't necessarily match the concept art, so take a look at the renders from upthread. They seem to match well.


And I'm totally going to make the one with eight missile launchers and the gurren lagan glasses

I've ordered from Defiance games and I wouldn't recommend it.

It wasn't terrible, but three months after I ordered my product I hadn't received anything. I emailed and basically got a chain of him lying to me.

The first response was: "They'll ship next week!"
The next response was: "We'll be shipping them in two weeks!"
The next one three weeks later: "We'll be shipping them in a month"
Next one: "We'll be shipping them in a month"

When I complained on their forums I was told I had pre-ordered (Even though the web page said nothing about this, apparently before ordering from their shop I should have gone to the forum and checked. I didn't realize that when you order from stores online you should check their forums first to see if they actually have the product they are selling...

They were sort of quick with the refund when I asked after placing the order and not having it ship for three months. So I guess that's a plus? If you get the runaround for three months and then they'll refund your money!

Seem like good guys, but over promise and have way too much trouble filling orders.

Pretty much the case, nice guys with a lot of enthusiasm, which leads to setting goals that turn out to be harder to reach than first realized.

I got my massive order for over 100marines and gunny, they got it to me fairly quick compared to others. But the issues with the bugs and Germans made me pause and I saw as much as I wanted battle-eggs, they were not gonna be here when they promised.

I just hope they get their stuff straight and work on rebuilding their reps and making sure that stock is made and on hand for filling orders to help with that and then they can go on from there.

Well according to their FB, they are working
No real dates though

March 6
We're really excited here right now. Over the next week we're going to be putting some new equipment in place that will REALLY help move things along and we're also interviewing people to get some additional help in place. On top of that I've just been reviewing some of the new designs that are being worked on for the next sets!

Meanwhile - Germans continue to roll out - and once we have the rest of it in place we have some ideas on how we can revisit the molds with Ed to help speed them up for the long term as we put out the new sets that have been designed specifically for the new plastic process.

No promises, no dates - but things are going good here and I just wanted everyone to know! - Tony

Remember this guy? Alex has been working on the orthos and we like what we're seeing. We have a TON to do in the meantime including getting Bugs and Germans out to distribution but this big guy is on the list!

If

(and I fear it's a big IF)

they get the 'marine' hard suits or those 'german' walkers into production and actually deliver them to game stores & distributors I'm still interested in taking a look, but I'll have to see the actual product myself before buying it