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Yes I agree there is a danger here that a lot of fans (especially the more casual ones - surely the big percentage?) will lose the thread as it were. Simply forget about the series and move onto other things?

I'm inclined to believe that they are actually getting the hardbacks out earlier. Considering the time frame from the author handing the finished manuscript in to the book being available, the time has reduced. However, the eventual "standard" paperback is still being delayed, due to the intermediate "premium paperback" release.

Once they jump the gap that this caused it'll be fine. The problem is that to make the transition the schedule took a 5 month hit. But then it's back to a HH book in paperback every 5 months or so.

The casual readers might drop off mildly (though I doubt it, they'll just randomly pick up paperbacks once they're out) but the whole thing will settle back out. It's a sound business decision.

@Justdave

I hear where you're coming from. If I don't think it's worth I wont' pay for it either. That said however I don't treat a sound business move as a slight like many of the posters here.

 Just Dave wrote:

 kronk wrote:
So, now I'll be waiting however long it is for the paperback release, assuming I don't tire of the HH by then.

Well Angel Exterminatus is in paperback in July I think; which is 11 months between it and the last HH novel (the dubious - IMHO - Fear to Tread), rather than novella (Shadows and Brotherhood).

Amazon (I know, I know!) has ANGEL EXTERMINATUS out in paperback on Jan. 29th - a $16.00 discounted down to $10.88 paperback at that.

Are they... wrong?

 Hulksmash wrote:


I hear where you're coming from. If I don't think it's worth I wont' pay for it either. That said however I don't treat a sound business move as a slight like many of the posters here.

Is it a sound business move?

Anyone know the sales numbers for a HH first in hardcover compared to a HH first in paperback release?

Aren't they're doing TRADE Paperbacks, then paperbacks. As in taill, thin paperbacks.

So it's another wait on top of that.

The way I see it, the next time I'm going to be expecting to get a horus heresy book will be in the run up to next Christmas...

Alpharius wrote:[Amazon (I know, I know!) has ANGEL EXTERMINATUS out in paperback on Jan. 29th - a $16.00 discounted down to $10.88 paperback at that.

Are they... wrong?

There's 2 different types of paperbacks: one 3 months after release, then (the usual) one 9 months after the (initial) release.

Personally, the only 1 I might get in hardback or more-expensive-paperback is Unremembered Empire, as it has me intrigued...

Hulksmash wrote:Once they jump the gap that this caused it'll be fine. The problem is that to make the transition the schedule took a 5 month hit. But then it's back to a HH book in paperback every 5 months or so.

The casual readers might drop off mildly (though I doubt it, they'll just randomly pick up paperbacks once they're out) but the whole thing will settle back out. It's a sound business decision.

@Justdave

I hear where you're coming from. If I don't think it's worth I wont' pay for it either. That said however I don't treat a sound business move as a slight like many of the posters here.

I can completely understand what you're saying Hulk and you should be right about the initial gap (and that some treat it as a slight), but it doesn't make me like it anymore!

Will the HH hardcovers be BL exclusives or will I be able to buy them at a chain retailer?

 Manchu wrote:
Will the HH hardcovers be BL exclusives or will I be able to buy them at a chain retailer?

Another good question!

If they are BL "Exclusives" then that's a straight money grab - well within their rights, but... annoying.

As is the quick turnaround to...ugh... trade paperbacks. Granted, more widely available, but more money and bigger than they need to be!

Then finally, some 9 to 11 months down the road, the 'regular' paperback.

Anyway, I'd love to see some sales numbers, though the 'true' picture won't be visible until after the 'regular' paperback version gets released.

@Alph

It is. Hardback to paperback is the industry standard. It obviously works. Once they are back on schedule the paperback schedule will return to normal (i.e. 5ish months between paperbacks). What this will do though is increase the initial sale of items by almost triple. A simple breakdown would be:

-1/3 of current purchasers buy the hardback
-1/6th of current purchasers buy the trade paperback
-1/6th of current purchasers buy the actual paperback
-1/3 of all purchasers no longer purchase the product.

They still come out ahead. And I seriously doubt they are going to lose 33% of their buyers. That doesn't include the increased cost in the upfront E-Reader copies that they are also selling which will increase their bottom line.

@Compel

Except they already have the next normal paperback scheduled for June/July.

**Edit**

My reply to Alph was based on general release of the hardback. If it's not general release, and it doesn't appear to be, it's not nearly as sound of a business decision.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Hardback to paperback is the industry standard. It obviously works.

You keep saying this but it seems a bit facile. I think we can agree that BL has been a successful company and we'll have to agree, as it is a matter of fact, that whatever success they have achieved is not owed in any way to hardcover releases. Therefore, the idea that BL will stop doing what has made it successful and start doing what other companies that work in a completely different way do doesn't seem like such an obviously good thing to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:
My reply to Alph was based on general release of the hardback. If it's not general release, and it doesn't appear to be, it's not nearly as sound of a business decision.

OTOH, and this is why I asked the question in the first place, exclusivity may "prime the pump" for paperback sales. Retail release, it seems to me, might dilute their chances of making the NYT Best Seller List ... which I cannot imagine would be a sound business decision.

Black Library has been a successful company that is leaving money on the table. Being successful doesn't preclude you from taking steps to be more successful. And they have been transitioning their more popular authors to hardbacks for years. This is just an extension to an entire line.

They still have their paperback lines. Most people won't even notice the gap. Only the people obsessive enough to follow it, which is a minor portion of the population base.

I think Hulksmash has a point. Maybe BL just wants to be a big boy publising house. It's hard to remember but there was a time when nobody knew if this books-about-toy-soldiers thing was gonna fly. They're established now and want to act like the rest of the industry.

 Hulksmash wrote:
They still have their paperback lines. Most people won't even notice the gap. Only the people obsessive enough to follow it, which is a minor portion of the population base.

IME "most people" (that is, folks you won't find on Dakka or Warseer, etc) know BL through the HH. So when we're talking about shifting that entire line to hardcover, I don't think you can really say "most people won't even notice." Let's face it, the folks who are bitterly complaining about this are the ones most likely to eventually shell out $30 for a hardcover because we are in fact the most committed to the fiction. For "most people," the casual readers, what was an acceptable splurge, diversion, amusement at $8 is perhaps not worth $30. Again, I'm wondering if those $30 hardcovers won't really be BL exclusives ... and if that's the case, the whole "it's industry standard" argument goes out the window entirely. I don't think Scholastic or Random House or Houghton Mifflin only sell you their hardcovers on their websites.

Well ya, then that would prove it's just an explotative cash grab. We'll see I guess.

Not to tell anyone how to do their interwebz job, but is the past page and a half news and rumours?

Its a valid discussion for sure, but I only say this because this thread is already hefty enough, even without OT topics.

Kronk, I would be okay paying 30 dollars for a HH novel only if it's hand delivered by a hot stripper, and she keeps half of the 30

 NELS1031 wrote:
OT topics

BL changing the HH series over to hardcover release is "off topic" in a thread on news about BL? The answer is "no."

Manchu wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
My reply to Alph was based on general release of the hardback. If it's not general release, and it doesn't appear to be, it's not nearly as sound of a business decision.

OTOH, and this is why I asked the question in the first place, exclusivity may "prime the pump" for paperback sales. Retail release, it seems to me, might dilute their chances of making the NYT Best Seller List ... which I cannot imagine would be a sound business decision.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Well ya, then that would prove it's just an explotative cash grab. We'll see I guess.

As previously mentioned, if the hardcovers are 'BL Exclusives', it is a silly decision.

And I'm pretty sure they are BL Exclusives...?

Angels Exterminatus seems to be. I have surely not seen it at the stores.

 Manchu wrote:
Angels Exterminatus seems to be. I have surely not seen it at the stores.

Exactly.

A short term gain may result in a long term loss - it remains to be seen, but I can't see this working out well in the end.

Nah, it won't. First you get a hardback, then a large paperback in the Space Marine Battle format and then, only then do you get your novel in the regular format they've always used.

Just as planned.

Just as we wanted.. according to the boffins.

Is Angel Exterminatus out? Like, anywhere? Has reds8n already finished it?

I think reds8n probably had the drafts from McNeill. And if reds8n has been McNeill's editor all these years, I'll be coming after him.

"How could you let him do _________???"

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Is Angel Exterminatus out? Like, anywhere? Has reds8n already finished it?

It might already be out in paperback in the UK - I'd almost have to think it is, because it is getting a USA release at the end of this month.

Yep, The Betrayer hardback is out as well I think.

Also pretty sure the hardbacks are BL exclusive.

BETRAYER isn't out in trade paperback until April in the USA...

I think you could get both on GW's US site as well but that's still an exclusive.

Anywho -- I still think Hulksmash's overall point (that this could be a good business decision) stands even if I don't think "hardcover = obvious, inevitable direction" is backed by much evidence. Premium exclusive releases will get bought and reviewed by people who will then (all things being equal) enthusiastically recommend them to others that are less "committed." Then it's a gamble: does this create anticipation for the trade release or just waste the launch excitement as customers say "$30? no thanks!"

Total speculation as I am totally ignorant of the reality of the publishing business.

 Alpharius wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Is Angel Exterminatus out? Like, anywhere? Has reds8n already finished it?

It might already be out in paperback in the UK - I'd almost have to think it is, because it is getting a USA release at the end of this month.

Ok. All I know is when Reds8n is finished reading it then I begin the 5 week countdown until it available in Canadian bookstores...

 Manchu wrote:

Total speculation as I am totally ignorant of the reality of the publishing business.

Same here, but I'll speculate some more!

IF they release another clunker, I expect that it will do significantly worse than if it was a worldwide paperback release, for many of the reasons you listed on why it might build anticipation...

But hopefully they don't resist another clunker?

Given their current publishing schedule though... I suspect we might see a few more books like BATTLE FOR THE ABYSS and NEMESIS, and whereas previously they might have even had a chance to sniff the best seller lists, but not anymore, maybe?

Maybe this is exactly why they invented the "unremembered Empire"? That's a tantalizing prospect even for those suspicious of hardcover prices, as in Just Dave's example.