Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Lol, btw anyone know the best weapons for a mesmer?
Veteran Sergeant wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future, the guy with a rifle is the weakest man on the battlefield, left to quake in terror, hoping the two or three shots he gets do the job before somebody runs screaming across the battlefield to hit him with an energized stick.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/14 05:40:40
Veteran Sergeant wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future, the guy with a rifle is the weakest man on the battlefield, left to quake in terror, hoping the two or three shots he gets do the job before somebody runs screaming across the battlefield to hit him with an energized stick.
Great Sword Mesmer is actually really lack luster. Damage wise it evens out with the other weapon options, but it lacks the ungodly utility of staff. It actually kind of sucks that Staff is SO good for the Mesmer cause there's really no reason not to use it, and few reasons to bother with the Mesmer's other weapon options (if we're going by power gaming standards that is). If we go by the have fun standard, pick whatever suits your fancy and tell anyone who says otherwise to off
That said, the Mesmer's real strength is in utilities and traits where they can become the best stun lockers in the game, powerful support, and strong condition damage dealers/straight damage from phantasms.
Mesmer is really OP right now, balanced out only by how hard a Mesmer is to play. It's a lot micromanaging and a little luck, but only Guardians can really dominate a well played Mesmer (maybe Necros).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/14 12:37:44
Most people who talk "maths and practicality" often end up being wrong because they don't really understand the math and practicality of what htey're talking about.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Or, you know, the numbers can actually support the facts.
In fact, more often then not, I tend to be more wrong when I fall back on personal anecdotes over pure statistical information. Especially in a closed system like a videogame. The problem comes from the interpretation, not the information itself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/14 22:48:12
The numbers support the facts, that however does not mean that the average "powergamer" actually understands either one.
Especially when these idiots try to say "only two or three of the eight classes is any good".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/14 23:57:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Veteran Sergeant wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future, the guy with a rifle is the weakest man on the battlefield, left to quake in terror, hoping the two or three shots he gets do the job before somebody runs screaming across the battlefield to hit him with an energized stick.
Melissia wrote: Especially when these idiots try to say "only two or three of the eight classes is any good".
I haven't seen anyone making that claim myself. There's a bit of soft countering going on (good luck with those Warriors Guardians XD) but for the most part class balance is really even right now. A bigger problem is that some styles of play despite being in the game aren't very viable for much. Spectral Necros for example (though they do have grasp going for them. Few things are as fun as seiges in WvW with a necro running around and yanking people off the walls ).
First guess on the dye is Abyssal? Everyone I know seems to want it but can't find it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 06:25:46
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Especially when these idiots try to say "only two or three of the eight classes is any good".
I haven't seen anyone making that claim myself. There's a bit of soft countering going on (good luck with those Warriors Guardians XD) but for the most part class balance is really even right now. A bigger problem is that some styles of play despite being in the game aren't very viable for much. Spectral Necros for example (though they do have grasp going for them. Few things are as fun as seiges in WvW with a necro running around and yanking people off the walls ).
The only really viable necro build is condition spam. I run dagger/warhorn on my Necro, but it's hardly what I'd call "effective." Spectral Necros were viable in some of the betas, until Anet nerfed Deathshroud mercilessly, without giving anything to compensate, but still keeping much of the Necromancer's abilities built around it. Necromancers in general just aren't very good, which is a shame, since they are so much fun (although being the one-trick condition pony is kind of lame).
Well, yes. Concerning optimized play, some classes just aren't worth taking for much. Rangers are stuck in a difficult place because, despite their ability to solo incredibly well, they don't really bring much to a party that other classes can do in a more specialized fashion better. It doesn't help that pets are still broken (minion Necromancers also feel the same pain). Of course, there's also the fact that pets and spirits will be one/two shotted before they can do much later on anyway. In a group environment, especially when trying to do optimized dungeon runs, Rangers just don't pack the group support to make them stand out. Thieves are similar in this regard, but at least they still put out some great damage.
The good thing is that at least there can be balancing and fixes done to solve these issues. But as it is now, I'd hardly call things balanced. PvP is another monster entirely, with its own separate balance issues.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 07:40:29
Rangers and Thieves may not be the flavour of the month at the moment but give it a while and I can guarantee people will be claiming "RANGERS AND THIEVES ARE THE ONLY CLASSES WORTH TAKING" .
Part of it is that WvW, SPvP, and the Dungeons are all very different creatures.
My ranking of usefulness (subjective here and not accounting for soft counters and various build types)
WvW:
Mesmer = Elementalist = Engineer > Guardian = Warrior = Necromancer > Ranger ~ Thief is highly situational in WvW
WvW as an aside imo has much better balance for the classes. When dealing with groups of 10+ the weaknesses of the various classes are much less glaring and team work can really bring deadly combo's together (Necro/Mesmer knocks defender off wall, guardian chain immobilizes, thief HSS to death).
Personally, if feel this is where the biggest imbalances are. Guardians and Mesmers are so obscenely good at SPvP, and Thiefs, while one trick ponies, are such a huge threat your forced to build to counter HSS spam.
Pretty much everyone works somewhere save the ranger. The poor guy/gal just gets outclassed at every turn by someone else (not to say that the class is bad, a ranger can be as deadly as any other with the human factor). Hopefully we'll get more balance tweaks once the game has started to settle. A few classes need serious buffing in certain respects.
Something really does need to be done about 10 second stun/daze locking 5k DPS Mesmer builds. I still think this is one of the most balanced games I've played in a long time though, even though a lot of PvP ultimately gets decided by how you built your character. Example: A general warrior build is going to be peeled open by a Guardian, but a Warrior packing as many stun breaks as possible (and loads of stability) with bull rush and great sword is going to in turn make mince meat of the same Guardian, and don't get me started on the highly under utilized Mace/Mace warrior.
The only really viable necro build is condition spam.
They make amazing support actually. Next to Mesmers they're probably the best support characters in SPvP. They can also tank damage fairly well. Trying to kill a Necro in WvW or SPvP is like trying to bust a tank with a fly swatter. EDIT: And that said, the Necro is the KING?QUEEN of condition damage and control. Bring a condition based build into PvP and fight a Necro, be ready to suffer a horrible and painful death.
But I've already started to realize that all the professions are kind of pigeon holed into certain niches. Sure you can make a Thief pretty tanky, but why would you want to?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 13:23:35
As I said before, I think which specific niche each class is forced into will rotate as time goes on. Perhaps as things are balanced and new content is added tanky thieves will be all the rage.
Well oddly, tanky thieves in WvW are actually fun as hell. Complete troll build though XD The thief won't die, but he won't be killing anyone either. If you enjoy screwing with people's minds it worth a run I mostly dismiss it because it's not optimal at all and kind of a waste of the thief's strengths (works very well though if coordinating with a group to do revives though and light harassment).
I don't know about rotating. Some professions just can't do certain things. There really isn't a way to make a condition based Guardian for example, just as there isn't a way to build a control thief. With that said I have a hard time really grinding down the professions because they're so situational sometimes.
Guardians in WvW are horribly gimped by their lack of a passive/sustainable speed buff. They can't escape zergs, and they can't keep up with a group either (which makes them easy targets for anyone picking off stragglers). In open terrain, a Guardian in WvW is silly dumb. Just roll Warrior they do it so much better. But in sieges! Guardian's are the ones you want operating that flame ram. And scepter/shield will increase you're gates survival by so much because the 5 will actually pass through the gate and block projectiles that aren't from a siege engine (not to mention protecting siege gear from Elementalist AoE). And the 4 is always fun for knocking anyone in range back. Get two staff Guardians, and you can actually hold up an impassable barrier indefinitely (good luck getting your orb back Borderland defenders cause the bridges on the left/right garrisons are narrow enough two Guardians can block the whole thing).
But the things that work for the Guardian in WvW are less optimal in SPvP. SPvP is all about the hammer and spirit weapons, both of which are lackluster in WvW.
EDIT: I actually am really curious about what will change in the expansions and how they'll advance the classes. I guess I really shouldn't be ruling things out. There are a lot of ways they can go with the way the trait tree's are built (if they ever get around to replacing the abundance of trash traits).
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 13:53:09
The game hasn't been out a month yet. Most people aren't even at the point of having a single character maxed out yet; almost no one has experienced every class enough to make that judgement. Hell I probably have more experience with the various classes than many of the whiny brats talking about what is "optimal".
Nobody really knows jack diddly fething gaksquat about what is actually optimal at the moment. Anyone who claims they do are just trying to inflate their own sense of self-importance and needs to pipe down and learn to play instead of trying to make ignorant, half-assed claims about optimization.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 16:37:42
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
The game hasn't been out a month yet. Most people aren't even at the point of having a single character maxed out yet; almost no one has experienced every class enough to make that judgement. Hell I probably have more experience with the various classes than many of the whiny brats talking about what is "optimal".
Nobody really knows jack diddly fething gaksquat about what is actually optimal at the moment. Anyone who claims they do are just trying to inflate their own sense of self-importance and needs to pipe down and learn to play instead of trying to make ignorant, half-assed claims about optimization.
Playing a character to level ~30 is not experienced enough to have anecdotal evdience to count for anything.
People know things. It doesnt take long for a metagame to develop (although they do change over time, obviously). It's not "inflating one's own sense of self worth" to bring up the fact that there are balance issues in the game that absolutely must be addressed.
I hardly understand why you need to be so blindly hostile over someone talking critically about a game they injoy.
Also, on the subject of conditionmancers in PvP, as Corpses brought up, I would consider rethinking the strength of the build. Condition control and mitigation isn't particularly difficult, especially wheb many classes can remove multiple conditions at once. Hell, guardians have a single skill that completely shuts down Conditionmancers instantly. Necromancers are not a happy class right now. They work for a few things, but they don't have nearly as many options as most other classes. It doesn't help that a lot of their abilities are bugged/don't work as described/don't work at all, and that their trait lines are a mess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/15 18:37:26
off 
Not on the same server as the dakka group though I think.
