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Typo - Page 12, Vulkan He'Stan.

In the Special Rules under his stats he states he has Company Master - Nerves of Steel

Yet in the Explianation it states he has Company Master- Born of Flames

Under Honour Guard :
Dedicated Transport
May select a Drop Pod, Rhino, • Razorback, Land Raider Crusader, or Land Raider (see page X for points values, page X for Land Raider).

^^ This happens through out the codex

The command squad can take a Heavy Weapon when they are 9 Marines Strong, yet they can only get upto 6 Marines Strong??

The Tank Commander Entry (epic By the Way) A Tank Commander does not lose any structure points from taking a glancing hit. Additionally, he ignores any Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned results and has the Repair special rule (see the Rhino entry on page 31). Note that he will still lose a structure point from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results, he just ignores the effects.

I'm not being an ass am I?

 redkommando wrote:
Typo - Page 12, Vulkan He'Stan.

In the Special Rules under his stats he states he has Company Master - Nerves of Steel

Yet in the Explianation it states he has Company Master- Born of Flames

Under Honour Guard :
Dedicated Transport
May select a Drop Pod, Rhino, • Razorback, Land Raider Crusader, or Land Raider (see page X for points values, page X for Land Raider).

^^ This happens through out the codex

The command squad can take a Heavy Weapon when they are 9 Marines Strong, yet they can only get upto 6 Marines Strong??

I'm not being an ass am I?

Nope, these are all things I will correct so thank you for pointing them out.

The Tank Commander Entry (epic By the Way) A Tank Commander does not lose any structure points from taking a glancing hit. Additionally, he ignores any Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned results and has the Repair special rule (see the Rhino entry on page 31). Note that he will still lose a structure point from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results, he just ignores the effects.

I can't seem to download it.

redkommando wrote:The Tank Commander Entry (epic By the Way) A Tank Commander does not lose any structure points from taking a glancing hit. Additionally, he ignores any Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned results and has the Repair special rule (see the Rhino entry on page 31). Note that he will still lose a structure point from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results, he just ignores the effects.

Thanks for the continued help, adding it to the To Do list for when I get back home.

Deadshot wrote:I can't seem to download it.

Dunno whats wrong, doesn't seem like anyone else is having a problem. =(

Downloaded it via PC rather than my phone, and it worked. Looking over, I can't really say I like it. There simply too much stuffed into it. Especially the HQs.

I have a lot to say, but it'll take some time to organize my thoughts and provide some lists as examples.

I will say that while I enjoy the sheer amount of customization, it likely too much. The sheer number of HQs is staggering (and honestly, unnecessary compared to every other codex) and the multitude of special rules will likely be a burden to both players in a match, trying to remember what's what. If there was just a single perk table to choose from without points, it'd be much better.

Finally, I find much of your wargear to be oddly priced. Some of it is a downright bargain, while others leave you scratching your head why you'd ever take. Then there are others that are just overpowered, but can be salvaged.

I like the concept, I really do, but I think you went a little to far trying to make it fully customizable and in trying to shake up some of the wargear we all know and love.

I'll be back with a lot more, hopefully I'll be good about trying to provide suggestions and alternatives.

Deadshot wrote:Downloaded it via PC rather than my phone, and it worked. Looking over, I can't really say I like it. There simply too much stuffed into it. Especially the HQs.

Which HQs would you removed to bring it down to a more acceptable number?

Blacksails wrote:I have a lot to say, but it'll take some time to organize my thoughts and provide some lists as examples.

I will say that while I enjoy the sheer amount of customization, it likely too much. The sheer number of HQs is staggering (and honestly, unnecessary compared to every other codex) and the multitude of special rules will likely be a burden to both players in a match, trying to remember what's what. If there was just a single perk table to choose from without points, it'd be much better.

Finally, I find much of your wargear to be oddly priced. Some of it is a downright bargain, while others leave you scratching your head why you'd ever take. Then there are others that are just overpowered, but can be salvaged.

I like the concept, I really do, but I think you went a little to far trying to make it fully customizable and in trying to shake up some of the wargear we all know and love.

I'll be back with a lot more, hopefully I'll be good about trying to provide suggestions and alternatives.

These rules are far from playtested and are in dire need of playtesting and balancing. There are going to be really awkward points values for some things. If you could point out which wargear you found to be overpriced/underpriced/oddly priced please let me know and I'll either correct the issues or make it a priority for playtesting.

For the abundance of HQ choices, which would you have removed if it were you making it?

I think your HQ slots could be condensed down to SCs, CMs, Captains, and then the generic SM 'hero' or 'character'. Then you simply provide options for the generic hero statline (the same two you have for chappies, libbies, etc.) to turn them into their various specific roles. That will make it seem less overwhelming and cut down on the amount of pages devoted to HQs.

Also, I understand fully it hasn't been playtested to any serious degree; very few fan dexes (and debatably the actual ones too) really are. I apologize in advance if I ever sound rude or harsh as I just get straight to the point, but I do promise I'll make as many constructive suggestions as possible.

 Blacksails wrote:
I think your HQ slots could be condensed down to SCs, CMs, Captains, and then the generic SM 'hero' or 'character'. Then you simply provide options for the generic hero statline (the same two you have for chappies, libbies, etc.) to turn them into their various specific roles. That will make it seem less overwhelming and cut down on the amount of pages devoted to HQs.

That....is actually an insanely good idea. Mind if I borrow it for the next update?

Could you also fit in a Pyshic Blank special rule as well? (Not a universal but one marine per a squad may have this ability +10 pts)

Also as a suggestion
Here are some characters that might need to be represented....
Uriel Ventris
Gabriel Angelous Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens

Don't know Marik, I guess removing the Apothecaries altogether would be a start (apart from the Command Squad). I don't really see the need for Apothecaries as a stand alone unit. Fluffwise I would assume there is the Command Squad guy to take Geneseed, and if he's absent or dead then they would bring someone down after the battle.
Second I would remove the 1 wound Techmarine, Libby and Chaplain. These guys to me would be the ones who are in training and not yet battleready, and would do things like Organise records, hold Space Marine prayers and hammer nails into stuff. However I would keep the others but make them an upgrade to the standard. And I like the idea behind the Tank Commander but I persoanlly think its too much and should either be an upgrade to any tank like a mini Cronos.

And then their's not much to do about the other stuff.

I would maybe say make Bike Squads and Assault Squads one role, and make them have backpacks or.Jump Packs standard (as per codex) or trade Transports and JP for bikes for 10ish pts, as Assault Marines are the ones trained to use them.

As far as tanks are concerned I would suggest moving the Land Raider back to HS. I know it works best as a Transport but combined with the armoured assault, the last thing we need is someone using this codex running around with bunchs of land raiders. BA are just dumb in tha respect.

 Deadshot wrote:
Don't know Marik, I guess removing the Apothecaries altogether would be a start (apart from the Command Squad). I don't really see the need for Apothecaries as a stand alone unit. Fluffwise I would assume there is the Command Squad guy to take Geneseed, and if he's absent or dead then they would bring someone down after the battle.
Second I would remove the 1 wound Techmarine, Libby and Chaplain. These guys to me would be the ones who are in training and not yet battleready, and would do things like Organise records, hold Space Marine prayers and hammer nails into stuff. However I would keep the others but make them an upgrade to the standard. And I like the idea behind the Tank Commander but I persoanlly think its too much and should either be an upgrade to any tank like a mini Cronos.

And then their's not much to do about the other stuff.

I would maybe say make Bike Squads and Assault Squads one role, and make them have backpacks or.Jump Packs standard (as per codex) or trade Transports and JP for bikes for 10ish pts, as Assault Marines are the ones trained to use them.

As far as tanks are concerned I would suggest moving the Land Raider back to HS. I know it works best as a Transport but combined with the armoured assault, the last thing we need is someone using this codex running around with bunchs of land raiders. BA are just dumb in tha respect.

Land Raider Crusaders were moved to Dedicated Transports to give Terminators a Transport that didn't require another force organization choice just to pull off, however I do see your point in full. Next update will have Armoured Assault removed, not sure about the Land Raider Crusader though. Terminators, in my mind, need a Dedicated Transport vehicle.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Could you also fit in a Pyshic Blank special rule as well? (Not a universal but one marine per a squad may have this ability +10 pts)

Also as a suggestion
Here are some characters that might need to be represented....
Uriel Ventris
Gabriel Angelous Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens

Psychic Blank?

If you can pull up some fluff/lore about Uriel and Gabriel I'll more than happily fit them in.

 Marik Law wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Could you also fit in a Pyshic Blank special rule as well? (Not a universal but one marine per a squad may have this ability +10 pts)

Also as a suggestion
Here are some characters that might need to be represented....
Uriel Ventris
Gabriel Angelous Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens

Psychic Blank?

If you can pull up some fluff/lore about Uriel and Gabriel I'll more than happily fit them in.

Okay dokey.
(My chapter has a 5% chance of having the witchbane virus basically the psychic blank)


Following spoilers!
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gabriel_Angelos#.UDQyTqllTSg

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Uriel_Ventris#.UDQyV6llTSg

This is awesome, mail to GW and tell them to make this the next marine codex!

Alright, here goes.

What follows is a blow by blow look at your dex from my perspective. I'll look at each section and each entry and give my opinion. This will likely be lengthy.

HQ
Marny C.
Our favourite blinged out CM returns, but this time cheaper and better. I'm very skeptical he's balanced, as his previous incarnation was still a beatstick. I would make his powerfists strike at I1, as they should. Also, all of your Captains/CMs need to be I5. That is the marine character standard, and should not be changed. I5 is plenty for enhanced humans. Leave the higher I stuff for Eldar/Dark Eldar and similar. I also think his A value should be 4, as it is in the current dex. His price reduction and a few extra rules are plenty to make him a strong character without being overpowered.

Cato
Cato is fine. All of your captains need their Iron Halos returned to them. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to remove them.

Tiggy
He should not be Mastery level 4. Only the most advanced psykers in the galaxy of the most psychically attuned individuals should ever have that level. We're talking Eldrad power or greater. He is still a marine afterall, a powerful one, but not on the level of the Eldar or disciples of Tzeentch. Make him ML 3 as he currently is and he'll be fine.

MC Cassius
I always thought he should be T5 max, but I guess he's fine at T6, seeing as that's his value in the current dex. Other than that, he's fine.

Vote for Pedro
For his special rule, I think it should just be preferred enemy Orkz. Tank hunters might be a bit of a stretch, and if its removed, I'd drop his price down to 215pts. Other than, fine.

Darnath
His chapter tactics are a touch too much. Again, army wide tank hunters is a powerful ability, and should be limited or be purchased. Also, D3 orbital bombardments is too much, just make it 1.

Shrike, Shrike, baby
I think you're trying to squeeze too many special rules and bonuses into your SCs, and Shrike is really showing that. Make him do one or two things for the army, not 5. Make him grant fleet and turn vanguard vets into elite and fast attack. Or assault squads into troops. Just not all of the above.

The burninator
Vulkan got more expensive, but also better. I'm torn whether I think he's too much awesome. You have a typo there with company master; says 'Nerves of steel', should say 'Born of flames'. I think he should either be 10pts more, or drop the ceramite plating bonus for vehicles.

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Nothing exciting, looks fine.

Chapter Masters and Captains
There are A LOT of options. I mean, just an absurd amount of stuff going on between these two options. I think they're good idea, just executed in a manner I'm not used to. Understand that its daunting for most people to look at so many options. Captains need their Iron Halos back, and CMs need I5 back. The Company master stuff works fine; JustDave did something very similar and I liked it there, so I like it here. I'll also state that that's all the customization you truly need to give chapters a different feel on the table top without being overburdened and complicated.

Space Marine heroes
As I stated above, I think all of these can be combined into one entry. The apothecary isn't mandatory as he should really just be an upgrade to a command squad or honour guard. However, they all share the same stat line, and all the entry would need is a section stating 'may upgrade space marine hero to -BLANK- for X points'. Then list they're wargear. You don't even have to worry about giving them all the wargear options or feats. Leave that for the captains and chapter masters to make them truly different and worth taking over a hero.

I don't much care for the Emperor's champion, but I see what you're doing, so I'll let it slide.

I genuinely don't know how I feel about the ven dread as an HQ. I think a basic ven dread should be an elite (or an upgrade to a standard dread), but the Chappy/Libby dreads can be HQ choices.

Ah, the tank commander. My mechanized tendencies immediately went into high gear when I saw this. It opens up some cool possibilities, and he certainly isn't cheap. What makes him overpowered is all the other wargear and weapons available to vehicles, but I'll get to that later.

HQ General thoughts
The good news is, that was the longest part. The bad news is, I still have to talk about wargear, which will be also long, and tie back into the HQ choices. Keep Captains and CMs the same stats and basic wargear as the real codex; as there's simply no need for change, other than for change's sake. Sometimes, simple is better, and they work just fine in the current dex. Don't fix what ain't broken and all that.

Troops
Good ole tac marines
Ah yes, the often termed 'tax units', that you must buy to take all the toys you really want. They haven't changed much, though they shoot their bolters better, which is fine, as its quite similar to what JustDave did. They get infinitely better in conjuction with the tank commander, so there's that to consider.

Scouts
I truthfully don't care enough about scouts to really comment. They look fine, I guess, moving on...

METAL BAWKSS!
Rhino
No change, move along.

Razor
Got more expensive, which is what is currently keeping the armoured company idea somewhat balanced. 80pts for a TL lascannon on an AV11 platform with 6 dudes inside? Not great, but terrible either. I'll accept it.

LSS
Same with scouts, don't care, I guess is nice for those who like scouts.

Drop pods
No change

LRC
I don't think making it cheaper was the right move. Land Raiders are expensive, but they're durable and are an assault vehicle (much more important in 6th). Bring it back to 250pts, as they're balanced just fine currently.

Vehicle wargear
I'll talk about vehicle wargear here as most vehicles on the board will be a transport of some type. The siege shield is too powerful. +2 AV value AND a 4++ save against glancing hits? No, even for 30pts, its OP. Make either +1AV, or a 5++ save. Maybe +1AV and a 6++ for 30pts. Its a good upgrade for a tank or two, but too expensive for every tank. The geostabilizer (I think you mean gyro, but close enough) is a good idea, but its actually overcosted. 40pts to make my vehicle act like a fast vehicle without actually being to go fast? Meh, I'd take it for 15-20pts depending on the tank. Ceramite plating should cost more for Land Raider. It should be 10pts for rhinos and razors, but 25pts for Land Raiders, seeing as how they'd benefit a lot more from it.

Elites
Sternguard
Fine, nothing too drastic.

Stalker
Sergeant should be BS5. I get that he's good, but BS5 is plenty to demonstrate that. Their upgrade to power armour should be +5pts, making them 125pts with power armour, matching the other vets.

Termies
Fine, no real change.

Dreadnought
Make both arms exchangeable for any weapon for the same cost regardless of the arm or if they match. Don't change points costs because it moves slots if its the same unit.

Ironclad
The siege mod rule is a little overpowered. A 4++ against glances is very powerful in this edition. I think this needs to be dropped and should be forced to purchase atomic shielding if its wants an invuln save.

Minor heroes
Looks fine, nothing game breaking here, and fluffy too.

Fast attack
Assault squad
Good.

VV
Also looks fine. Reasonably priced, might use a 10pts increase (+2pts per model) to make them distinctly more expensive than Assault marines for the special rules they have.

Rest of FA looks fine, nothing huge was changed.

Heavy Support
Devs
Still an expensive proposition. I'd borrow the points costs from C:BA to make them worth taking or considering in a competitive list.

Weapons platform
Interesting now that arty doesn't die to a stiff breeze. Considering a Thunderfire cannon was 100pts and it only got better, it should still be 100pts, and we should make the conversion beamer 80pts, and the laser destroyer at 70pts.

Preds
Here's where I disagree with what you've done so far. I understand you want to make the tank carried versions of these weapons better, but I think you went a little too far. Consider the relationship between a rifleman dread and a dakka pred. A dakka pred is 85pts, while a rifleman dread is 120pts. The dread shoots 4 TL AC shoots, while the pred gets 4 non TL AC as well as 6 HB shots, and AV13. Not to mention I can throw on a siege shield to make the tank 115pts and AV14. What I'm going to be filling up on in lower point levels? Truthfully, I don't think the preds need much changing. They are prefectly capable and balanced tanks as is. The TL-Las option is too expensive, but that's an easy fix. Just make it +20pts instead, or whatever it was JustDave made his. No need to change the wargear, is it only leads to confusion with your opponents.

If you are dead set on making them slightly superior options, make the AC Heavy 3 instead of 4, and make the TL Lascannon a lance weapon at AP2 and 60" range. But, if you do that, make the tank 20pts more. It truly is balanced in its current form.

Whirlwind
Looks fine, maybe a touch expensive. I'd do with it what JustDave did, which was the ability to select 2 of 3 missiles, which would still make the whirlwind a valid AA platform and a horde killer. Perfectly fine at 85pts, considering its competition.

Vindi
Fine, same and awesome as always.

Land Raider
I like what you're trying to do here. Its base pattern is the redeemer, which needs to be brought back up to 240pts, but make the inferno cannons shoot 6" out, like the way a Hellhound does. Then alter the upgrade costs so they match the current cost of the land raiders in existence.

Feats and Perks
I guess deep down I like these concepts, but they always turn out to be more cumbersome than they are a benefit. I guess the feats are largely fine, and mostly balanced, except for Imposing stature. No way should a marine ever be S6/T6 just because he's bigger than the other boys. Nope. S5/T5 is the absolute max, and that is even stretching for me. Leave the restrictions and make it 10pts cheaper and S5/T5 and its fine. Psychic assault also shouldn't exist, as it allows you to build level 4 psykers, which should not exist in a marine codex, particularly not a fan made one.

While I like the perks in concept, I truly can't say the way I like the way they've been executed. I don't really have much to offer here other than get rid of it. Some of them just seem redundant, or are the same thing with different names, or just allow the player to design an army you could already build anyways without take the perk. Also, some of them are just obviously better than other for competitive play (I know thats not your intention, but a codex needs to consider all apects of game play), like No Place to Hide, which is far above the other tactical perks.

Closing thoughts
Well that took longer than I thought. Ummm...yeah. So there you have my not so professional opinion, but I hope I made some reasoned thoughts and offered some suggestions you'll at least meditate on. This certainly has potential, it just feels a little too powerful in certain combinations. I might put together some lists to demonstrate later.

Hope I didn't insult/offend or any of that other nonsense.

Cheers.

Version 1.01 is now up!

See the change log in the spoiler section of the first post for most of the change details.

I guess since the Emperor's Champion is in there your putting Templars into this codex? If so, I think I'd be cool if you give the tact marines any option to switch their weapons for a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword/combat knife. Keep the templar fluff alive you know what I mean? Also having vows for the champion would be cool too.

 Stormtrooper520 wrote:
I guess since the Emperor's Champion is in there your putting Templars into this codex? If so, I think I'd be cool if you give the tact marines any option to switch their weapons for a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword/combat knife. Keep the templar fluff alive you know what I mean? Also having vows for the champion would be cool too.

I may one day do a Templars book, but no, Templars will not be integrated into Codex Space Marines (at least not right now, may change my mind later, who knows).

EDIT: Also, Version 1.02 is now out!

 Blacksails wrote:
the multitude of special rules will likely be a burden to both players in a match, trying to remember what's what. If there was just a single perk table to choose from without points, it'd be much better.
....
you went too far trying to make it fully customizable.

Deadshot wrote:Looking over, I can't
really say I like it. There simply too much
stuffed into it.

Yer.

You said that armies should be able to take multiple types of chaplain, unit x as troops, and an invisible special rule that lets them call themselves chapter A. This is like all those wishes thrown on a pile and formatted.

Make yourself some rules. Find a hard number of special rules (including or not including army-wide ones) units can have. Make sure units will actually make it into lists, instead of being superfluous. Only give purchasable options when they come with a modeling change. Predators only exist because it would be strange if marines did not have tanks. They meet their goal just by being treads with guns, so they need detailed rules less than other units do. That probably applies to other units too.

I've got to agree on the perks being a little ridiculous. If you just make a list of Chapter Tactics and say "pick one", that would be fine.
As a side note: Vulkan's CTs are... interesting. I like the Armourbane thing you've got going on, but I can't help but feel that it takes away from how special Soul Blaze is (or rather, should be).
Also, Flamestorm Cannons included in it? Bit excessive.

I do like what you've done with the Honour Guard, though. Usability, woo!

 Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:
I've got to agree on the perks being a little ridiculous. If you just make a list of Chapter Tactics and say "pick one", that would be fine.
As a side note: Vulkan's CTs are... interesting. I like the Armourbane thing you've got going on, but I can't help but feel that it takes away from how special Soul Blaze is (or rather, should be).
Also, Flamestorm Cannons included in it? Bit excessive.

I do like what you've done with the Honour Guard, though. Usability, woo!

The newest version is up, Chapter Perks have been reworked/redone in the new version.

Can't see any mention of Jet Bikes in any entry, despite Jet Bikes being in the Armoury.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Can't see any mention of Jet Bikes in any entry, despite Jet Bikes being in the Armoury.

Did you check the options for the Chapter Master?

 Marik Law wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Can't see any mention of Jet Bikes in any entry, despite Jet Bikes being in the Armoury.

Did you check the options for the Chapter Master?

My mistake.

If anyone has any suggestions for additional Chapter Tactics or for better versions of the Master of the Watch, Master of the Arsenal, and Master of the Marches company tactics please let me know.

Chapter Tactics are all taken care of! But I need help in another way.

With Version 2.0 now being worked on I will be doing quite a lot to the book (streamlining it, removing certain units, combining certain units, adding cool new features, etc), but one of the things I could use help with are the new Astartes Relics.

So far I only have three Astartes Relics and could use help with ideas for more. What would be cool is if anyone who has read the background and novels extensively could think up some ideas for wargear and weapons that have been covered in the lore but not currently in use by anyone (or at least not known to be in use). A good example of what I mean is in the new Chaos Space Marine codex, you can use the flamer that Kharn used but that he was never seen with again.

The three Astartes Relics I have so far are...

Adamantite Mantle: Gives the Space Marine a 3+ invulnerable save and Eternal Warrior.
Crusade-era Jetbike: Jetbike with either a heavy bolter or multi-melta equipped on it.
Dread Razor: Lightning Claw which causes Fear that ignores And They Shall Know No Fear. Weapon has Strength x2 against enemy models suffering from the effects of Fear.

The Jetbike is called a Scimitar Pattern according to FW HH range.

I will have a look through my HH novels for stuff. Probably not get too much though.

Fine Codex, a liked the idea of the stalker vets.

I generally speaking like the codex from my first read through of it. I have a few issues however:

Suffer not the unclean to live - Army wide preferred enemy against a certain race seems a little OP when you consider it is rerolling hits and wound with both shooting and close combat. Maybe sub for hatred? Also why is there the option for Space Marines? Surely they wouldn't consider other marines unclean or fight them that much?

Never Despair - Army wide stubborn combined with and they shall know no fear means not many marines falling back. I don't think they should have both rules.

I don't think Wounded Animal sounds very space-mariney as it to me implies weakness. Maybe Cornered Beast instead?

War Veterans - I am all for the rule as it is fluffy but I think a bit too cheap. I am thinking 5-6pts per model rather than 3?
Also why would anyone pay for this for their units if they can get it for free with the suffer not the unclean to live perk?

Other than those little bits it seems good to me from the first read!