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Only War also does it like that.

Would it be too hard for all of these 40K RPGs to use the same basic system?

The guts are more or less the same, it's just that with Black Crusade and Only War they've done away with ranks and restricting certain skills and talents to certain paths.

From what I recall, aren't the Psyker systems wildly different?

Yeah, though I don't know what, we never dealt with psykers unless it was as opposition.

No. The psychic systems have been pretty much the same (with the odd tweak here and there) since Rogue Trader. The only wildly different one is the original Dark Heresy psychic system.

And Manchu, they're not levelled builds. Only War doesn't have an Archetype system like BC, so character creation doesn't work the same way.

 Alpharius wrote:
Would it be too hard for all of these 40K RPGs to use the same basic system?

It's sort of like FFG is refining the core rules with each new game and adding in some flavorful additions and tweaks to fit the particularities of the specific setting.

This makes the various games, compared one to another, sort of messy, but what you can do is incorporate house rules into, say, a Dark Heresy game, that are in line with changes to the system that you think are good, necessary, or appropriate.

One example from Only War would be the Single, Semi-Auto Burst, and Full Auto rules. Only War provides +10 for single, +0 for Semi-Auto, and -10 for Full Auto as opposed to +0, +10, and +20 in Dark Heresy if I recall correctly.

This is, in my opinion, a refinement of the rules as it is easier to get multiple hits in Full Auto, but harder to hit, and if you sacrifice the ability to get multiple hits by firing a single shot you get a boost to your accuracy. It also helps Characters with a low BS have a fighting chance to hit something. This is pretty important in an IG game as all characters will be shooting at stuff pretty often, but it is still a really good option to have in a less combat-intensive game like Dark Heresy. Some characters will inevitably have a weak BS skill, and it is good to at least have options for those characters to move from completely-totally-waste-of-time-to-attack into my-damage-output-is-less-efficient-but-at-least-I-am-contributing-to-the-fight.

The biggest problem with Only War is that you need a damn spreadsheet to make a character. Thankfully, my GM made a really nice and effective one because he's sort of nuts, but FFG should have created one and made it freely available on release of the game.

Edit: As an aside, the thing I find the most annoying about Only War so far is how much harder it can seem to blow up tanks than in a game of 40K. It's like, I know that if I had hit that Chimera 6 times with an Autocannon it would totally have blown up by now! I don't think it's really that much different though, mathematically, when you get down to it, except that Guardsmen are a Hell of a lot more accurate in a game of Only War! DIE TRAITOROUS SCUM!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And Manchu, they're not levelled builds.

Good that's much more useful.

You can change your specialisation or become dedicated at 2500 XP.

 BrookM wrote:
You can change your specialisation or become dedicated at 2500 XP.

Which I am leery about. You could game the crap out of that system if you were determined to do so. I mean, I think if you play it loose and build your character organically it is fine, but you can use that system to save yourself thousands and thousands of EXP over the life of a character.

The possibility of efficiently spending one's EXP is an intoxicating one, especially when you are getting to the point where a session's XP awards aren't enough to buy an advancement that you want. How much cheaper would that have been if I had changed my specialty? Well, if I swap specialties here and do that, I can get that skill and then buy up this Attribute...

It starts you down a dark path of spreadsheets, calculators, and miticulously planning out 10K XP worth of expenditures.

If I were to GM I'd probably limit the career change to a single one.

weeble1000 wrote:
Edit: As an aside, the thing I find the most annoying about Only War so far is how much harder it can seem to blow up tanks than in a game of 40K. It's like, I know that if I had hit that Chimera 6 times with an Autocannon it would totally have blown up by now!

There is method to that madness. Vehicles are more intrinsic to the Guard, and therefore more intrinsic to the game. Players can play as part of an armoured or mechanised infantry company, and as such their vehicle/s of choice need to stand up to fire (who wants to play a tanker when your Russ detonates at the first sign of trouble?) otherwise it wouldn't be much fun and the crew would spend more time on foot than blasting the enemies of the Imperium.

weeble1000 wrote:
It starts you down a dark path of spreadsheets, calculators, and miticulously planning out 10K XP worth of expenditures.

And this problem is unique to Only War?

You can game just about any RPG system. And as Brook said, these are the things that a GM controls. If the GM is letting their players change speciality between missions then that's not a rules problem, that's a GM and player problem.

But wait, if a GM needs to step in and house rule, doesn't that make for badly written rules according to some?

I didn't say "house rule". It's the GM's job to manage these things.

 BrookM wrote:
But wait, if a GM needs to step in and house rule, doesn't that make for badly written rules according to some?

In the given example, I might point out that creating a super efficient build really isn't in the cards, unless you over-specialize. (The Hell Party has been trying. So far there has been surprisingly little need for the GM to intervene... unlike RT, D&D, Old and New WoD, SR, and GURPS...) So far, the only super broken combo detected was Tank Ace + Tank Hunter + Vanquisher. (Solution: Bomb Squigs.)

Having the GM want to house rule is also much different from having the GM HAVE to house rule because the combat system is (hilariously) broken...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

weeble1000 wrote:
As an aside, the thing I find the most annoying about Only War so far is how much harder it can seem to blow up tanks than in a game of 40K. It's like, I know that if I had hit that Chimera 6 times with an Autocannon it would totally have blown up by now! I don't think it's really that much different though, mathematically, when you get down to it, except that Guardsmen are a Hell of a lot more accurate in a game of Only War! DIE TRAITOROUS SCUM!

Think on this though: A lance strike will actually pretty much kill anything, unlike on the table top.

Only War is getting so good I'm thinking of figuring out a way to streamline it to do mass combat with it.

Who knows, if it really works well we could have a wargame set in the 40k-verse!

Wait...

has an official release date for dark heresy second edition been announced ?

thanks

Nope. Far as I know it's not done yet. I'd expect towards the end of the year (assuming the new SW game comes out sooner).

Looks like the tome of decay is finally announced, bout time i'd say.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4686

Full news for Tome of Decay:

FFG wrote:The Tome of Decay
Announcing an Upcoming Supplement for Black Crusade



Come forth and receive the blessings of Nurgle!

Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce The Tome of Decay, a new supplement for Black Crusade.

Focusing on Nurgle, the Chaos God of pestilence and plague, The Tome of Decay serves up all manner of ailments, resources, allies, and ideas for Nurgle’s grotesque followers. The Tome of Decay also includes advice for GMs on running their own plague-filled campaigns!

Below, developer Max Brooke explores what The Tome of Decay offers the loyal minions of Nurgle.

A Word from the Developer

The Tome of Decay is a Black Crusade supplement dedicated to the Chaos God Nurgle. The Plaguefather, as his adoring minions call him, is a god of pestilence, affliction, rot, and rebirth. In this volume, players will find many ways for Heretics who accept Nurgle’s blessed despair to channel his dread power. From the Plague Marine and Writhing World Sorcerer-King Archetypes, to the dreaded Manreaper scythe to a host of deadly new poxes, players and GMs will find grotesque new abilities, treasures, and inspirations to spread the wracking gifts of the Lord of All.



In addition to powerful new allies and ailments for the twisted followers of Nurgle, this volume contains many new resources for heretics of all sorts, whether they worship one of the Ruinous Powers or their own ambition. The Tome of Decay includes the Warpsmith and Veteran of the Long War Archetypes, whose endless war against the Imperium has sharpened them into peerless killers, and rules that allow Heretics to forge their own Daemon Engines or even bind Daemons within their own bodies to become powerful Possessed champions of Chaos. Finally, this Tome contains the rules for ascension to Daemonhood and running one’s own Black Crusade, allowing the most powerful Heretics to take the fight against the servants of the False Emperor to terrible new heights.

Beyond these resources for players, The Tome of Decay contains a festering wealth of information for Game Masters who wish to blight their campaigns with the influence of Grandfather Nurgle. As with the other Tomes, it contains detailed accounts of the places of power attuned to the Plague God and their dreadful inhabitants, from the Writhing World, to the foetid fields of Mire, to the very heart of the Vortex. The adventure contained in this volume leads the Heretics across the surface of Mire into the Vortex’s terminus, where they must face the greatest threat to their endless desire for power: mortality itself. If the Heretics can surpass the bonds of feeble flesh, they will stand poised to achieve their most twisted ambitions. If they fail, however, they will join the endless legions of the fallen: souls pulled beneath the squelching mud of Mire and forgotten.

The Tome of Decay is without question the grisliest book I have had the pleasure of working on, and I can’t wait to hear the stories of ruin, rot, and rebirth that players and GMs use it to tell!

Rot and Ruin

Thanks, Max!

The Tome of Decay, the newest supplement for Black Crusade, will bring all manner of rot, disease, and ruination to Nurgle’s followers later this year. Keep checking back for more news and previews regarding The Tome of Decay and Warhammer 40,000 Roleplaying.

It has been a painfully long road watching people go "Where's Tome of Decay?" and "Black Crusade must be cancelled! We'll never get the Nurgle book!".

I'm glad this one's finally announced.

I look forward to the inevitable 40k rpg with funky dice.

Nah, I wouldn't count on it, otherwise we'd already see it with the Derp Heresy 2.0 release.

Yeah, no funky dice in the 40K RPG's, not even in DH's reboot.

Ah well, was hoping for funky dice. I can always use the sourcebooks and fate it up.

At last !!!!!!

 Predaking wrote:
Looks like the tome of decay is finally announced, bout time i'd say.

At last! Not sure I will buy more 40k RPG books after this (considering DH2 is just more OW). Even the last two Tomes have not been great. But BC is the most interesting of the "settings" and so the one I am most likely to play.

I know you don't like the way they've done the Archetypes, but what else about the last two tomes have "not been great", exactly?

I don't like the system generally and think it feels out of place for everything except DH, which is CoC in space so benefits from the CoC-like system. But I know your question is specific to the Tome of Fate and Tome of Excess. I will get back to you when I am at home with both books in front of me.

You mean the base rule mechanics, as far as they extend out through Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War?

Yes.

Like Zond, I would prefer FFG go with their proprietary theme rather than stick with a percentile-based system.