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 MajorTom11 wrote:
Insaniak git'on it man, scale perfect, that was the only one!

Actually, I'm still not entirely convinced that the B-wing is big enough, either

Although I think part of that is that I had been under the misapprehension that it has a twin-seater cockpit... probably just because it looks like the Falcon's cockpit


But yeah, the SSB A-wing looks spot on. That might assauge my concerns, if I can track some down...

Sigh....

The A-Wing has the right size, like every fighter in X-Wing. They even talked with the guys who built and designed those fighters back then to get it right.

The problem is:

> There are several props with different sizes depending on the szene they were needed for. So just placing them side by side does not always work, since you need to know for which szene these exact props were used for.

> Some props were designed too small back then and needed to be resized later, but back then the schedule was tight and no resizing possible and so they went with it.

> The Falcon size e.g. changes between the movies due to set needs and the same goes for other props and needs. In the end they had to choose one size and make it the final decission. That´s where the sizes for X-Wing come from.

> The siizes for X-Wing are the final word from Lucasfilm on how big the fighters really are, they are made by the folks who designed and built them i.e. the people that really should know it.

> FFG was able to have a look at the props at Lucasfilm so they had the real thing side by side, which we can´t. We always can´t be sure how distorted the picture is, so we could be tricked by the lenses.

Again: X-Wing is exactly 1:270 with regard to the final say from Lucasfilm regarding to sizes.

There is no need to worry about the wrong size. (And I don't make it up, I know it first hand from the guy who designed the FFG fighters)


@B-Wing
There is a two-seater B-Wing but with elongated cockpit and seats in row.

Btw.... never ever go by the falcon cockpit... there are two cockpit sizes... the four-seater from the movies and the two-seater from the holiday special.... make sure you know from which the picture is from or you really will get into scale problems .

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
> The siizes for X-Wing are the final word from Lucasfilm on how big the fighters really are, they are made by the folks who designed and built them i.e. the people that really should know it.

Not necessarily. I remember there was some controversy over the official size for the Executor, with the lengths given in official Lucasfilm-approved sources blatantly contradicting the film and model evidence. It took a while for them to finally listen and change the official numbers. So it's easy for the A-wing the be the same kind of thing.

We always can´t be sure how distorted the picture is, so we could be tricked by the lenses.

You don't need to worry about lens distortion, just look at the cockpit and pilot sizes. The A-wing is obviously a tiny ship, and the game model is out of scale.

approved does not mean every single entry is checked by Lucasfilm, that would not be possible and couldn't be payed.

We are speaking about Lucasfilm-internal and they got their sizes right when it comes to X-Wing. Actually the went even over some sizes that would not show up in the game and made a final say. That´s how we got the Deathstar sizes finally matching the films

At least 1-2 A-wing props are too small and size got later changed. So the FFG might not fit the original prop, but it does fit the official size as decided by Lucasfilm.

Btw. already the model kits were larger than the original prop and all following renditions of the A-wing sticked with the bigger size, which should give you a hint. Also nearly all sources agree that an A-wing is roughly a third the size of the Falcon lengthwise and the falcon is correct, placing my modell beside the falcon it is roughly one third of it... so it is quite right. According to your claims the A-wing would be a quarter to a fifth the slength of the falcon...

Like I said and no disrespect to you and plastic, but you can say all you want important and learned men say the sky on earth is red during the day and green at night, but to my eyes at least that simply does not make it so.

I don't quite get why it is such a big deal to even consider they may have got it wrong despite their pedigree... In any case, all evidence both in film and in the matte paintings used in the backdrops in the hangars and the production design all indicate it was built precisely as intended.... Unless their was a conspiracy to jam a 12 foot humanoid pilot in each ship from the beginning?

Anyways I love both you guys, either way it's really not worth arguing about further, lets just agree to disagree and move on to enjoying this awesome game, tiny nit picky scale issue or not...

You are absolutly entiteld to you opinion. But it gets problematic when your opinion keeps people from buying the game.

Fact is: The size of the X-Wing models is the final say of Lucasfilm with regard to the official size.

Don't say

The size of the X-Wing models is the FINAL say of Lucasfilm with regard to the official size,

say

The size of the X-Wing models is the CURRENT say of Lucasfilm with regard to the official size

because you know that if they feel they need to (perhaps to help/please a new licencee) they'll change them

 MajorTom11 wrote:
perfect scale or not, you HAVE to get into this game if you are a SW fan and a fan of great games!

I plan on getting it just for the collecting/display purposes. My buddy and I are going to give it a run or two, see if we like it. If we do, hes going to buy in as well. If we dont, then they go on my shelf and look nice.

Also, Im a fair bit of a scale stickler, and these are close enough for me. I wont go near the Star Trek ships though...the complete lack of scale ruins it for me.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
You are absolutly entiteld to you opinion. But it gets problematic when your opinion keeps people from buying the game.

Fact is: The size of the X-Wing models is the final say of Lucasfilm with regard to the official size.

Nothing I said should prevent anyone from buying this game. In fact, this is the game I have been most enthused about and strongly vocal about, by far. In fact, I am lobbying hard both internally and externally to get a full fledged section going for it here, I will be on the Adepticon x-wing board, and I have attempted to invite FFG to get involved here as well. I have completely custom painted my shpis in a P and M blog, I have custom printed my own mats, I have bought a gak ton of third party stuff, I have more than 5 of every small ship and 3 of the big ones... honestly I couldn't be a bigger fan.

Insaniak merely said the scale was off on the A-wing, I agree with him. Do I think that should be an obstacle to buying, no bloody way it's not even worth worrying about.

Not saying absolutely everything is flawlessly perfect doesn't mean i'm not a huge fan of the game, I'm not that black and white about it I'm sorry.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Insaniak merely said the scale was off on the A-wing, I agree with him. Do I think that should be an obstacle to buying, no bloody way it's not even worth worrying about.

Certainly one ship being out of scale isn't a big concern in the grand scheme of things, particularly when that is fixable. My only concern would be with how many time this might happen on future releases.

So I'm probably more in the 'wait and see' camp at the moment than the 'must buy' camp... but that's as much due to a lack of hobby budget right now as anything else

/silly mode on
But if one ship is out of scale, where will the madness end?!

WILL SOMEONE NOT THINK OF THE TECHNICAL SPECS?!
/silly mode off

I'm very patiently awaiting the B-Wing.
And by "very patiently", I mean "not at all patiently".

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
You are absolutly entiteld to you opinion. But it gets problematic when your opinion keeps people from buying the game.

How is it problematic if someone doesn't buy a game? If someone cares so much about scale issues that they don't buy the game (or a specific model) over it then it's FFG's fault for getting the scale wrong. And we certainly aren't obligated to refrain from discussing it and protect every potential sale.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
At least 1-2 A-wing props are too small and size got later changed. So the FFG might not fit the original prop, but it does fit the official size as decided by Lucasfilm.

And it's your choice to put official statements ahead of what the movies actually show, just like you can make your choice about whether Lucas is a delusional liar when he says that Han never shot first or if the official statement that he didn't is all that matters.

The B-wing is one of my favourite ships, so i am really looking to it being released so i can add it to my collection.
X-wing is really start to pick up at my club and is really fun game system, so really looking forward to seeing what the future brings for it.

Can we stop worrying about the size of the ships guys?

Or create a post in the modeling forum on "I don't think the ship is in scale, what do you think and what alternatives do you suggest?"

As a guy who has played SW RPG off various flavors for 20 years, NEVER expect lucasfilm to get anything right on ANY technical details...they are story tellers, not gamers or engineers.

Now, back on topic...

I am exceptionally excited about the new releases.
The game is great and the minis are awesome and I am very excited about the potential for more EU ships.

I do hope however, they don't eventually flood the market with minis...and complex cards...one of the beauties of the system is how simple it is and easy to play (yet having a lot of tactical elements to make it fun for wargamers).

I wonder if we'll see TIE defenders eventually?

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I wonder if we'll see TIE defenders eventually?

I've got a feeling that one might show up sooner or later, if the Moldy Crow is any indication of the more obscure vessels out there.

Not sure how I feel about this. Imperials get another larger-based, fat, not-so-maneuverable tank in the Lambda shuttle (which, in my opinion, probably won't be fast/maneuverable enough to keep up with TIEs it's meant to be supporting) while the Rebel HWK-290, their "support ship", is on the smaller base and will likely be faster and more maneuverable.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I wonder if we'll see TIE defenders eventually?

Possibly although I'd say a TIE Defender as stat'ed in the old TIE Fighter pc game would be a 100pt "squadron" all by itself! hull 3, shields 7, attack 3, defense 3, every move 2+ on the dial, every action released so far in the game, ion primary weapon option, elite pilot upgrade standard, and missile/bomb/torpedo upgrades. Personally, I'd rather see a real TIE avenger card or model first. Making the model might piss off a few gamers but the card seems like a safe bet and something good to do for the league kits.

To those saying the A-wing is the wrong size based off of the movie, I say the movie is the wrong size based on the movie. The pilot models that were plsced in the A-Wing cockpits are actually twice the size of the pilots used in the other starfighters, meaning that while you could base the crafts size on the pilot in the movies, the movie model is not itself in scale with the other movie models.

It's times like this that I'm reminded that the phrase "the fanatic peat" is the best phrase ever introduced into English from Spain.

The current A-wing model is teeny tiny small. If the scale gets fudged, it's going to be fudged in the direction of giving people a model big enough to see.

Wave 3 has officially moved one step closer to in all our grubby hands as its now listed as "at the printer" on the FFG website!

Happily the stock levels in the UK stayed positive for long enough so that I could nab a TIE Advanced and an X Wing (and some crucial extra dice).

chaos0xomega wrote:
To those saying the A-wing is the wrong size based off of the movie, I say the movie is the wrong size based on the movie. The pilot models that were plsced in the A-Wing cockpits are actually twice the size of the pilots used in the other starfighters, meaning that while you could base the crafts size on the pilot in the movies, the movie model is not itself in scale with the other movie models.

That's something I read earlier as well, can't remember the source though.

Super excited for the BWing still.

I picked up the Hawk Wargames Cityscape for Heavy Gear a few months ago, but I'm thinking of using it as the setting for some bombing run type scenarios once the Bomber and Bwing are out.

 Riquende wrote:
Happily the stock levels in the UK stayed positive for long enough so that I could nab a TIE Advanced and an X Wing (and some crucial extra dice).

In terms of value, you're better off picking up an additional starter, unless you need the cards from the X-Wing booster.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Happily the stock levels in the UK stayed positive for long enough so that I could nab a TIE Advanced and an X Wing (and some crucial extra dice).

In terms of value, you're better off picking up an additional starter, unless you need the cards from the X-Wing booster.

You're not wrong, but I wanted at least one copy of the expansion.

You definitely want one copy of the expansion for Wedge. After that, just get starters, that's all you need.

 warboss wrote:
Wave 3 has officially moved one step closer to in all our grubby hands as its now listed as "at the printer" on the FFG website!

A stage that typically lasts 3 to 6 months, judging by past experience.

RogueRegault wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Wave 3 has officially moved one step closer to in all our grubby hands as its now listed as "at the printer" on the FFG website!

A stage that typically lasts 3 to 6 months, judging by past experience.

Let's just hope its 3 months and not 6 months although 6 months is probably better for all of us since it means we can all buy X-Wing without stock disappearing for no reason.

 Red Comet wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Wave 3 has officially moved one step closer to in all our grubby hands as its now listed as "at the printer" on the FFG website!

A stage that typically lasts 3 to 6 months, judging by past experience.

Let's just hope its 3 months and not 6 months although 6 months is probably better for all of us since it means we can all buy X-Wing without stock disappearing for no reason.

Well, after "At the Printers" comes "On the Boat" which generally means 1 to 2 months in transit followed by a month and a half in customs.

I was following the original release of Descent: Journeys in the Dark VERY closely.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Fact is: The size of the X-Wing models is the final say of Lucasfilm with regard to the official size.

Agreed.

This is an imaginary vehicle. If they (LucasFilm) say it is to scale then it is.

 Mad4Minis wrote:
I wont go near the Star Trek ships though...the complete lack of scale ruins it for me.

The scale thing bothers me but also it makes no sense to me that Star Trek ships would move like WWII fighter plane space ships. It just seems like a terrible money grab unless they significantly reconsider the feel of the X-Wing rules.