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Is there any reason why this isn't possible? A lord in a command barge which moves flat is destroyed due to terrain, and the lord inside is "removed as a casualty" per the FAQ a RP counter is placed. At the end of the movement phase the RP roll is made the lord gets back up an assaults.

You weren't in an assault vehicle, so it's not possible.

juraigamer wrote:You weren't in an assault vehicle, so it's not possible.

I dont think that has anything to do with it.

P. 67 after the vehicle moves, you may disembark and shoot, but you may not assault.

haroon wrote:

juraigamer wrote:You weren't in an assault vehicle, so it's not possible.

I dont think that has anything to do with it.

It's following the rules for assaulting after disembarking, which you can't do without being in an assault or open-topped vehicle (although I believe the barge is open-topped?).

It's open topped so its passenger can assault after disemberking. To be honest I dislike this trick, although it's a very unlikely event (1/6 for immobilised X 1/3 for RP = 1/18 ~5,5% chance).

The barge is open topped, so you can assaut after disembarking from it having moved.

edit: NM you see what i am saying.

You aren't disembarking. You can't disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out. You are being removed as a casualty.

Would the open-topped count as a special rule for the vehicle? Because they stop working when the vehicle is destroyed (FAQ). Although that might just be a regular rule?

The Lord has EL, right? I don't have the Necron codex, but are there any restrictions on models that are brought back?

Nifty little situation you got there.

Open-topped is the part of the unit type, not a special rule. Something like 'Assault Vehicle' is a special rule, which would prevent an assault if destroyed.

The unit type is Vehicle, Unless I missed 'Open-topped' on P.4,5 where unit types are listed.

Open topped is a rule that is special to certain vehicles, as not all vehicles are Open-Topped.

No the unit type is Vehicle (Open-topped). Open-topped is not a "special rule" it is a type of vehicle.

Happyjew wrote:No the unit type is Vehicle (Open-topped). Open-topped is not a "special rule" it is a type of vehicle.

Citation please.

It does not say that it is a type of vehicle, just like it does not say it is a special rule.

But it sounds like a rule that is special to certain vehicles, as not all vehicles are Open-Topped.

DeathReaper wrote:

Happyjew wrote:No the unit type is Vehicle (Open-topped). Open-topped is not a "special rule" it is a type of vehicle.

Citation please.

It does not say that it is a type of vehicle, just like it does not say it is a special rule.

But it sounds like a rule that is special to certain vehicles, as not all vehicles are Open-Topped.

I guess this issue pertains to all items regarding a EL model dying, which wipes out the unit, and then returning to life as a new unit.

Do effects like Doom or Weaken Resolve still effect this "new" unit, or were they only targeting the old unit?
If you shot the character, it died, then got back up, can you assault it, or is the unit you shot no longer alive?
If Imothekh uses his one-shot staff, dies, and then gets back up, is that a new staff that can be fired again?
Do you get a KP, and the new unit is like a scarab swarm or something else that spawns mid-game?

It's still just the same unit.

Okay so Open topped is a type of vehicle. not sure how I missed that.

Edit: But the second part of the quote goes on to tell us that the vehicle types have a separate entry listing their unique rules and any exception to the normal vehicle rules.

Unique rules, seem like special rules. /Edit.

HIWPI:

It still stands that the intent of things that moved in flat out transports can not assault in the assault phase.

DeathReaper wrote:Okay so Open topped is a type of vehicle. not sure how I missed that.

It happens

HIWPI:

It still stands that the intent of things that moved in flat out transports can not assault in the assault phase.

Agreed.

I'd have to say no, you cannot assault per the FAQ. You were in a vehicle, and the open topped is a special rule of the vehicle, which then ceases to function once the vehicle is destroyed so you count has having been embarked in a regular vehicle.

Q: Do any upgrades or special rules a vehicle has cease
to work once it is destroyed? (p61)
A: Yes. For example if a Land Raider Crusader is
destroyed by ramming an enemy vehicle, its embarked
passengers would not be able to launch an assault in
the ensuing Assault phase as they would no longer
benefit from its Assault Vehicle special rule.

The above FAQ quote doesnt cover this situation though.
In the above example the passengers are simply "dumped out" in the OPs example the vehicle gets smoked, the Lord is removed, replaced with a marker, and returned to play.
Completely different situation.
I think you should be able to.
Everliving does state that if you return and unit is in CC you must immediatly join..... I know this doesnt cover this situation, But It does give hesitation to the assumption that a "returning" model cannot assult.

Lone Dragoon wrote:I'd have to say no, you cannot assault per the FAQ. You were in a vehicle, and the open topped is a special rule of the vehicle, which then ceases to function once the vehicle is destroyed so you count has having been embarked in a regular vehicle.

Q: Do any upgrades or special rules a vehicle has cease
to work once it is destroyed? (p61)
A: Yes. For example if a Land Raider Crusader is
destroyed by ramming an enemy vehicle, its embarked
passengers would not be able to launch an assault in
the ensuing Assault phase as they would no longer
benefit from its Assault Vehicle special rule.

As mentioned before, Open-topped is part of the vehicle type, not a special rule.
'Assault Vehicle' is a special rule, as shown above, and is listed under the Special Rules section of the Landraider.
An Ork truck for example is Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped).

It is not a special rule of the vehicle, as it appears under unit type.

I dont think the vehicle has ANYTHING to do with it.
What should be asked/answered is:
Can a model returning to play by means of Everliving / Reanimation Roll declare an assault?

The second part of the quote, on P. 56, goes on to tell us that the vehicle types have a separate entry listing their unique rules and any exception to the normal vehicle rules.

Unique rules, seem like special rules.

HIWPI:

The intent is that if a unit in a transport moved flat out in the current turn then models can not assault in the assault phase.

DeathReaper wrote:The second part of the quote, on P. 56, goes on to tell us that the vehicle types have a separate entry listing their unique rules and any exception to the normal vehicle rules.

Unique rules, seem like special rules.

HIWPI:

The intent is that if a unit in a transport moved flat out in the current turn then models can not assault in the assault phase.

I agree with the intent, totally. It's a shame the rules don't take into account models returning to life. Curse those Necrons!

you only have certain situations that allow a unit to charge. firing rapid fire/heavy weapons disallows charging, as does disembarking from a vehicle, UNLESS that vehicle has a special rule to allow the assault (in which case it must be alive or functional) or open topped. however the movment rate of a vehicle will also disallow an assault. anything faster then 12" prevents models on board from assaulting.

also, the FAQ indicates if you crash your own transport in your own movement phase the passengers are dead. i would argue that your lord or whatever is gone with the vehicle. no counter nothing. just gone. (other models dont get invuns or FNP to negate this so why should necrons get RP?)

that said, depending on the wording of EL i might allow that to work, but certainly not charging if he stands back up. simply because he was on board a transport that moved faster then 12".

on a second and totally off topic note...

why are people STILL trying to find a "viable" method of justifying this "tactic" of flatout+cover+wrecked = charge" ??? its not only the dumbest idea around, but its very clearly an attempt at taking RAW way past the line, and abusing any small chance they have at breaking the game. seriously....enough of this already.

</end>rant

The question should be "Does a unit with Ever Living have a 'memory' of it's status if it is removed as a casualty, and comes back?"
If yes, then:

A fleeing unit with EL continues fleeing after passing it's RP roll.
A pinned or GtG unit remains so after passing it's RP roll.
A unit that was in a wrecked transport that moved flat out cannot assault after passing it's RP roll.
A unit affected by Entropic Strike will continue to have an armour save of - after passing it's RP roll.
A unit under the effect of Weaken Resolve will still have a modified Ld Stat after passing it's RP roll.
A unit that has used the Emergency Disembark rule that turn will still be unable to do anything until the end of that turn after passing it's RP roll.

And probably more.

If no, then all these will be the opposite.

My opinion is that the answer should be yes it does. All of these effects happen to the unit for a specified duration; if the unit exists it is subject to these effects until that duration is over. The fact that the unit 'died' is inconsequential. RP does not create new units, it restores units to play.

An open-topped vehicle may be a type of vehicle, but as it says on page 70 in the last sentence

Open-topped vehicles follow the normal vehicle rules, with the additions and exceptions given below.

Were that sentence not in there I would agree with everyone. However because open-topped vehicles are a specific subset of vehicles it can be argued those "additions" (or additional rules) are special only to the open-topped type of vehicles. Vehicles themselves prevent a unit from disembarking and then launching an assault without any special rules that allow them to do so. If the vehicle is destroyed, the special rule of an open-topped vehicle, prevents an assault from the vehicle because of the FAQ.

This is no different than the rules for say a space marine captain who is, Infantry (Character). He is still an infantry model, and he has a subtype of Character which gives him additional rules to those of infantry, it doesn't make him a different type. Or jetbikes which are still a type of bikes, and subject to all the rules of bikes.

DarthSpader wrote:also, the FAQ indicates if you crash your own transport in your own movement phase the passengers are dead. i would argue that your lord or whatever is gone with the vehicle. no counter nothing. just gone. (other models dont get invuns or FNP to negate this so why should necrons get RP?)

that said, depending on the wording of EL i might allow that to work, but certainly not charging if he stands back up. simply because he was on board a transport that moved faster then 12".

This. According to the Ever-living rule, I have to place an ever-living where the model was removed from play. At the time the model was removed from play, it was inside a transport. This transport either no longer exists or is about to be removed. So where do I place my ever-living counter?

You put the counter where the model was removed from play. The wrecked transport is now a difficult/dangerous terrain so the counter goes on it and you can bring the model back within 3" of the counter. Even if it crashed on impassable terrain you can put the counter and just bring the model outside the impassable terrain (within 3").
And the model typically can assault afterwards because the barge is open topped.

For all other armies this situation means they lose their models. Should Necrons be any different? I don't know. RAW this works but I'd like a faq to know if it was intended or the designers didn't think of this side effect.