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"Fear to tread" was kind of boring for me,except for the middle parts(Ullanor,Melchior,Nikaea) and Sanguinius ofc,but "Emperors Gift " is perfect book, from perfect writer (but it wasn't in heresy time,damn it)...
And I' dont agree that mournival was boring (Torgaddon= jester,Abbadon = bully, Aximand = in the middle of everything; and Loken was awesome)

The Horus Heresy is like a soap opera set in the 30K universe.

Who didnt like Horus Rising an F.O.T.E.

BURN THE HERITIC!!

Despite what alot of people say. I liked Out Cast Dead. Granted it didn't effect the story as a whole. But, it showed another human face. Also, the Emperor played a big part in it. It showed his character and personality. I really found myself liking the Emperor as a man. He's got personality and even a sense of humor. 'Is this real?' 'Your asking me in a dream if this is real?". Its a story about how important a single life can be in a universe of gods and semi gods. Kai is a neat character. And Bamboo ta kai being a thunder warrior raises its own questions and hopefully we'll see what he does when Horus lays siege to Terra.

I like most of them alot but found the Fulgrim story in The Primarchs to be way out of line with most other black libuary stuff. The pair of anguish and its ilk just made me think of teenage slash fiction and that perhaps Graham McNeill needs to lay of the torture porn for a while

Homoerotic Space Marines are a staple in Graham McNeil's writing.

Just started to re-read Galaxy in Flames. I was surprised I missed how big the final battle was. I thought it was 50 marines left.

Love it to death hope they come out with more blood angel stuff!

I want a Horus Heresy Encyclopaedia

I hate doing all that multi quote stuff so...

In reply to Horus choosing to turn to chaos, it's simply not true at all. He was wounded and was brought to a warrior lodge to heal on Davin and all this was before he was rewarded by the Emperor, so in a way he was never officially inducted as Warmaster.

In that lodge he was possessed, it's the first fluff written for the Horus Heresy in the realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness books. It's old and obscure but that was it back then.

The original Hersey fluff, page 240 Realms of Chaos Slaves to Darkness Warhammer 40k First Edition.

I love it. It's currently my favourite series. Sure, there are novels in the series that I don't like. Some that I can't stand, but on the whole, I can't wait for each new book. Every time I sit down with a new HH novel, I feel almost like I did while reading the Discworld novels. (Note the almost. Nothing compares to Discworld.)

There are a few novels they could have easily cut from the series, though. The Dark Angels ones in particular. Boring and completely unrelated. Prospero Burning was just annoying because of those bastard puppiedogs. Shadows of Treachery has moments of shiny, but is overall pretty useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General_Erko wrote:
I hate doing all that multi quote stuff so...

In reply to Horus choosing to turn to chaos, it's simply not true at all. He was wounded and was brought to a warrior lodge to heal on Davin and all this was before he was rewarded by the Emperor, so in a way he was never officially inducted as Warmaster.

What? I distinctly remember reading "The warmaster is dead!" as the rumor spreads through the civilian population.

I would have handled the book series as:

1.) Horus Rising
2.) False Gods
3.) Galaxy in Flames
4.) Flight of the Eisenstein
5.) Fulgrim
6.) First Heretic
7.) Prospero Burns
8.) Know No Fear
9.) Fear to Tread
10.) Mechanicum
11.) A large group of short stories in one anthology.
12.) Prelude to Terra book
13.) A final Battle of Terra book
14.) Fallen Angels (that deals with Luther's betrayal and his battle against the Lion)

This would avoid the current state of the franchise that we're seeing, avoid repetition, and at least keep some kind of mythical status to it.

Where is A Thousand Sons.

Harriticus wrote:

This would avoid the current state of the franchise that we're seeing, avoid repetition, and at least keep some kind of mythical status to it.

It would definitely avoid the current status of the series, which is a cash cow for Games Workshop, lol.

I keep my expectations of Black Library books very low, which most of the time avoids disappointment. Let's face it, if these authors were A list they wouldn't be writing for BL, they would be creating their own stuff. I listen to the audiobooks because I love the 40k universe, not because they're particularly well written..

The only BL book that has blown me away as a novel was Space Marine by Ian Watson. I've read that about 8 times and I still love it. Also anything by Jack Yeovil is brilliant too. ADB is completely overrated, really enjoyed the first of the Night Lords trilogy but the rest of the stuff has been pretty mediocre to downright dull.

Back to the Horus Heresy, it really depends on the author. Graham McNeill and Dan Abnett are pretty safe bets [although McNeill is really annoying me with his portrayal of Fulgrim & the Emperor's Children in Angel Exterminatus] , anyone else is hit or mostly miss. James Swallow is really growing on me.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Where is A Thousand Sons.

imo, too many books for each legion is a root of the franchises problem. The events of Magnus and the Burning of Prospero should have been dealt with in 1 longer ~600-700 page book, not to say both books weren't good.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I keep my expectations of Black Library books very low, which most of the time avoids disappointment. Let's face it, if these authors were A list they wouldn't be writing for BL, they would be creating their own stuff. I listen to the audiobooks because I love the 40k universe, not because they're particularly well written..

The only BL book that has blown me away as a novel was Space Marine by Ian Watson. I've read that about 8 times and I still love it. Also anything by Jack Yeovil is brilliant too. ADB is completely overrated, really enjoyed the first of the Night Lords trilogy but the rest of the stuff has been pretty mediocre to downright dull.

Back to the Horus Heresy, it really depends on the author. Graham McNeill and Dan Abnett are pretty safe bets [although McNeill is really annoying me with his portrayal of Fulgrim & the Emperor's Children in Angel Exterminatus] , anyone else is hit or mostly miss. James Swallow is really growing on me.

No accounting for taste, I suppose, since Ian Watson's second and third Inquisition War books are literally the worst books I've ever read. The content is as terrible as anything by Ward or Gotto, plus being so meandering and unnecessarily verbose that my eyes glazed over during some of the expositional paragraphs.

Dan Abnett is great at writing normal humans, be they Inquisitors or Guard. His Space Marines are consistently terrible. Graham McNeill is very hit (Storm of Iron) or miss (Outcast Dead). Gav Thorpe is probably the worst active author they currently have, since all he writes is emo bullcrap.

 Harriticus wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Where is A Thousand Sons.

imo, too many books for each legion is a root of the franchises problem. The events of Magnus and the Burning of Prospero should have been dealt with in 1 longer ~600 page book, not to say both books weren't good.

That's pretty harsh. A Thousand Sons was a decent book. It relates to the abolishment of the librarians. I was always kinda curious about them. Not to mention. It hints at the origin of the Blood Ravens. I really enjoyed the book. There were a few things I didn't like about fulgrim. Mainly the damn cover art. It looked like Ferrous Mann's had a giant wrench.

I don't see what's harsh about his statement. That whole story probably would have been better told in one book, or at least by one author. That way we wouldn't have the inconsistencies of Russ's characterizations. Is he the Russell Crowe-esque belligerent donkey-cave of ATS? Or is he the somehow even more ridiculous wet-leopard-growling thinking man's barbarian of PB?

I am pretty sure his persona in A Thousand Sons is partly an act.

Since it translates directly into his and his Legion's actions, that point is largely academic, is it not?

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's only pretending to be a duck?

Oh I agree, to an extent.

While he is certainly more cunning and intelligent than he comes across at first glance, IMO he is ultimately, a hypocritical savage and a tool.

You guys should stop writing as if your personal opinions are objective facts. Also, you should agree that it doesn't matter if your opinions differ on which books are good or bad.

Nothing in this whole thread has been anything but subjective opinion, but almost all of it is stated in a hyperbolic way that make it seem like it's a universal constant, and that not agreeing makes with you makes the reader somehow wrong.

I agree with almost nothing that has been said in this thread, but I'm cool with that, because I know it doesn't matter if we enjoyed the same books. So what if you didn't enjoy The Outcast Dead as much as I did? I don't like LOTR either, even if I've read that brick five times. You like Prospero Burns? Okay, I found that it was a Tome of Suck.

Writing style is a matter of preference, and is even subject to trends. If LOTR had been written today, I'm pretty sure not a single publisher would have bothered to read beyond the first page before discarding it. I have a buddy who will read epic poems, but I haven't gotten him to even open a single "modern" novel. Another buddy of mine loves Jasper Fordd, but he doesn't get whats so funny about discworld.

All that is OKAY, because like the butt, opinion is divided. It would be pointless for me to try and convince my friend that the Edda is boring. Not only because it's his opinion that it isn't, but at the same time, the more I argue that it is boring, the less so he'll think it is.(That's just how us humans are built.) So all you guys are doing when arguing with each other on matters of personal preference, is arguing for the sake of arguing, and then getting worked up about it.

All you can realistically hope to achieve in a discussion like this is letting others know what your opinion is.

Nothing in this whole thread has been anything but subjective opinion

Welcome to the internet.

I don't have opinions.

Anything I say becomes immutable fact, if it wasn't already.

 SgtSixkilla wrote:
You guys should stop writing as if your personal opinions are objective facts. Also, you should agree that it doesn't matter if your opinions differ on which books are good or bad.

Nothing in this whole thread has been anything but subjective opinion, but almost all of it is stated in a hyperbolic way that make it seem like it's a universal constant, and that not agreeing makes with you makes the reader somehow wrong.

I agree with almost nothing that has been said in this thread, but I'm cool with that, because I know it doesn't matter if we enjoyed the same books. So what if you didn't enjoy The Outcast Dead as much as I did? I don't like LOTR either, even if I've read that brick five times. You like Prospero Burns? Okay, I found that it was a Tome of Suck.

Writing style is a matter of preference, and is even subject to trends. If LOTR had been written today, I'm pretty sure not a single publisher would have bothered to read beyond the first page before discarding it. I have a buddy who will read epic poems, but I haven't gotten him to even open a single "modern" novel. Another buddy of mine loves Jasper Fordd, but he doesn't get whats so funny about discworld.

All that is OKAY, because like the butt, opinion is divided. It would be pointless for me to try and convince my friend that the Edda is boring. Not only because it's his opinion that it isn't, but at the same time, the more I argue that it is boring, the less so he'll think it is.(That's just how us humans are built.) So all you guys are doing when arguing with each other on matters of personal preference, is arguing for the sake of arguing, and then getting worked up about it.

All you can realistically hope to achieve in a discussion like this is letting others know what your opinion is.

Agree,LOTR was (for me) very slow paced, but when I was kid it was only worthy fantasy book and it laid foundation for the fantasy world which comes later - so it playes special role in my life...But today I wouldn't read it...
Btw, agree that Prospero Burns was very boring (and I love my wolves),but you have to understand that negative comments are coming from bitter kids, and not from objective dudes...

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I don't have opinions.

Anything I say becomes immutable fact, if it wasn't already.

Its already past 11.11. 12 / 11.11.00 where you live right? The season of. .. .. begun...

I hate the horus heresy for expanding on something that i feel should be kept as a distant myth.

To me there is nothing mystic or grand about the setting now that everything gets answers. (Note that i havent read them because of this).

Too me this takes away from the horus heresy, the fact that the primarchs become demi-gods of battle and explaining in detail the primarchs.

The primarchs too me would be like regular if a bit better chapter masters and the main draw would be purely symbolic as the headas of the emperors grand army and the myths of the incident is what made them seem so great now.

For the year 2020 i predict Horus Heresy 92, The Battle Lavatory 8.
Buy the story of Brothercaptain Honorius's epic struggle with a chaos infested burrito, which will surely determine the outcome of the Horus Heresy.

 KingDeath wrote:
For the year 2020 i predict Horus Heresy 92, The Battle Lavatory 8.
Buy the story of Brothercaptain Honorius's epic struggle with a chaos infested burrito, which will surely determine the outcome of the Horus Heresy.

Your comment would be funny if it wasn't bound to happen....