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My biggest beef, is that CSM and Deamons while being Battle Brothers, doesn't have any benefit of it, their respectif Characters can't join the other codex units...

I mean yeah sure, if a Lord with MoK can't join a unit of Deamonettes or Tzeentch Horros, okay, thats own it has to be, but not even the deamons of your own God?, come on!, thats bollocks.

And even if it was because else players would have tried to make Lords and other SC's DS with the Deamon waves etc, then just add a line where they can't be part of the Deamon waves, but they can join them once they are on the table and be done with it!

Or at least let those deploy if they have a termi armor...

Hades.Arcadius wrote:
At AlmightyWalrus

At cormadepanda

Since your post I decided to splinter the Orks into their separate primary 6 clans...the Malevolent Xenos page is rather short...my secondary reason is that some short research turned up that there's a big fissure in Ork-dom...that both the Blood Axes and the Deathskulls aren't exactly in the best standing with their own race...Blood Axes for being less Orky and more Humany...and the Deathskulls for being dirty thieves...so aside from their internal affairs issue...do these orks view anyone else differently aside from the Blood Axes dealings with the Imperium as mercenaries...

Blood Axes are not the only mercenaries in the Ork King-dom
Others are Freebooterz who are klanless orks who work for money - thus forming their own klan. They should be allowed to be battle brothers with guard for fluffy reasons

Other wise all ork clans conflict with each other,
Your the biggest, your not the biggest,
Bad Moons are rich
Deff Skulls are theives
Blood axes are sneaky and back stabbas
Goffs are ard rich jerks
freebooterz kill for who ever pays the most
savage orks - are well savage untill a propa war boss brings them in.
And so on if orks didn't have these internal conflicts and always disagree with each other i would say orks would rule the galaxy almost uncontested.

Thus i would say a rule that should over ride on the ally chart is grazzskull thrakka, he should make any clan ally as if they were battle brothers as that is what he does bring 100's clans together to fight on Armageddon.

Ideally...my fluff army uses the rulebook levels of alliance, but that's as far as it goes...I go so far as to separate chaos from itself...the Chaos Gods are segregated too...seriously take a look at the file though....ods is a spreadsheet and excel will be able to open it...I've also made some more recent changes so I'm going to repost the link again...

http://filext.com/file-extension/ODS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvk2gkikxmu5tq7/Allies%20Matrix%20Public%20Copy.ods


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok...the Freebooters I can work with...but I don't see the feral orks panning out in the sense that they basically are isolationist orks...that they would essentially be the culmination of all the Orks negative feelings towards other races...which would be...all of them...

Freebooters would most likely have lighter allegiances to all races...like AoC with everything...and DA with the dangerous/anti-social races...like...necrons, demons, and nids?...Tyranids don't even have an established method of communicating...

and I'm to understand that the Ork clans all hate each other...that none are "really" battle brothers...

Hades.Arcadius wrote:

what about the Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and the White Scars...

I also added a separate stipulation to the Templars... "The Black Templars have zero tolerance for psykers, to represent this any of their allies may not use them."

The BT would have no problem fighting alongside those chapters. I would think being 1st founding legions the BT's respect for the Salamanders and Raven Guard would make them overlook their skin mutations (the BT had no problems with the sallies in the 3rd Armageddon war). I also think they would be proud to fight alongside the IF with them being their father chapter

the pskyer condition is also already in the BT codex so they should be following that rule anyway.

 macc92 wrote:

Hades.Arcadius wrote:

what about the Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and the White Scars...

I also added a separate stipulation to the Templars... "The Black Templars have zero tolerance for psykers, to represent this any of their allies may not use them."

The BT would have no problem fighting alongside those chapters. I would think being 1st founding legions the BT's respect for the Salamanders and Raven Guard would make them overlook their skin mutations (the BT had no problems with the sallies in the 3rd Armageddon war). I also think they would be proud to fight alongside the IF with them being their father chapter

the pskyer condition is also already in the BT codex so they should be following that rule anyway.

This summed up the Templar stuff. Excellent.

Still wondering about how the Templars view the Inquisition and Grey Knights...I know that the Grey Knights are all Psykers, but how does that work for them...and how do they handle the Inquisition being nosey...

Hades.Arcadius wrote:
Still wondering about how the Templars view the Inquisition and Grey Knights...I know that the Grey Knights are all Psykers, but how does that work for them...and how do they handle the Inquisition being nosey...

Grey Knights are explicitly the only psykers allowed as allies in the BT Codex, because none of them have ever fallen to Chaos. I'd assume that the Inquisition is a bit suspicious, what with the extre 5000 Knights over a standard Chapter.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Hades.Arcadius wrote:
Still wondering about how the Templars view the Inquisition and Grey Knights...I know that the Grey Knights are all Psykers, but how does that work for them...and how do they handle the Inquisition being nosey...

Grey Knights are explicitly the only psykers allowed as allies in the BT Codex, because none of them have ever fallen to Chaos. I'd assume that the Inquisition is a bit suspicious, what with the extre 5000 Knights over a standard Chapter.

I would assume that the Inquisition hasn't gotten rid of the BT's yet because the BT's remain one of the most devoted and fanatical chapters to date so I don't see them waging another mass heresy. If any other chapter had an extra 5000 marines, I would be inclined to think the Inquisition would be a bit more on their case

Also, for my IG, you could really find a legitimate reason for an Imperial Guard regiment to ally with just about anyone. You would need to stretch fluff in the case of armies like Necrons, or some of the other heavily Anti-Human xenos (like Eldar), but you could always say they teamed up for the moment to fight a greater combined foe. Think of it like "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

 washout77 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Hades.Arcadius wrote:
Still wondering about how the Templars view the Inquisition and Grey Knights...I know that the Grey Knights are all Psykers, but how does that work for them...and how do they handle the Inquisition being nosey...

Grey Knights are explicitly the only psykers allowed as allies in the BT Codex, because none of them have ever fallen to Chaos. I'd assume that the Inquisition is a bit suspicious, what with the extre 5000 Knights over a standard Chapter.

I would assume that the Inquisition hasn't gotten rid of the BT's yet because the BT's remain one of the most devoted and fanatical chapters to date so I don't see them waging another mass heresy. If any other chapter had an extra 5000 marines, I would be inclined to think the Inquisition would be a bit more on their case

Pretty much. The Templars also send a more than average number of Marines to the Deathwatch (even considering their size). Having a good track record certainly helps.

Orks should be able to ally with everyone but the 'nids, their the most common of the xeno (can't remember where I read it ) and can be found anywhere, so surely they Ork A might like dem spikey boys, but ork B might hate them.
You could argue that almost any army could ally with another race.

I had lots of points to make for CSM but my damn tablets autocorrect is making it a pain to type

At the Templars

Alright...that means that the Templars are 90% done...it's too close for me to call on the Inquisition and Grey Knights based on your accounts...would you Templars in the audience tell me if it's Admiration or Respect that they feel for the Grey Knights and Inquisition...it's between AoC and BB...

Added an addendum to the addendum of the Black Templars... "The Black Templars have zero tolerance for psykers, to represent this any of their allies may not use them...except the Grey Knights."

At Toastedandy

You should be able to turn off auto-correct on your tablet no matter what operating system you're using...it should be in the settings when the soft keys are out...or in the settings menu...

All orks are AoC unless Grazskull is present in which case he makes them battle brothers, like using Blood Axe Nobs in goff warbands to make them run away in the Armageddon assault effectively tricking the imperium into thinking they won, only to be driving straight into an ambush.

I'll be adding that addendum to the orks...and I didn't forget either...just mostly trying to figure out the Templars while I had their attention...

"All of the Ork clans usually would rather kill each other than work together...there are only a few Orks that can make them rally under one banner, primary armies containing Grazkull as their warlord can treat all other Ork armies as battle brothers."

I'm surprised I haven't seen Blood Angels battle brother with Necrons. I mean that's in the fluff right?

I'd be willing to consider it if you can cite the reasons...

And nids are bros with the templars.

Hades.Arcadius wrote:
At the Templars

Alright...that means that the Templars are 90% done...it's too close for me to call on the Inquisition and Grey Knights based on your accounts...would you Templars in the audience tell me if it's Admiration or Respect that they feel for the Grey Knights and Inquisition...it's between AoC and BB...

Make it AoC, there's a number of Inquisitors that are suspicious about the numbers of the Templars. It's not nessecarily that the Templars don't trust the Inquisition but rather that the Inquisition doesn't trust the Templars in full.

Ok...so currently we have this for Templars, btw if you're asking why there's a lot more Imperium...it's just that the internal group is expanded to show how they work together...not that they always do...

The Forces of the Imperium
Imperial Guard = AoC
Inquisition = AoC
Grey Knights = BB
Sisters of Battle = BB
Blood Angels = BB
Dark Angels = AoC
Imperial Fists = BB
Iron Hands = BB
Salamanders = BB
Raven Guard = BB
Space Wolves = AoC
Ultras = BB
White Scars = BB]

The Forces of Chaos
Chaos Demons = CtA
Chaos Renegades = CtA
Chaos Space Marines = CtA

Benevolent Xenos
Craftworld Eldar = ??
Eldar Harlequins =??
Tau Alliance = ??

Malevolent Xenos
Dark Eldar = ??
Necrons = ??
Orks = ??
Tyranid = ??

Templars wouldn't ever ally with DE, Orks, Necrons (Helbrecht wants his hand back!) or Tyranids. Tau and Eldar would be Desperate Allies, seeing as one of them is the prime enemy in the Nimbosa and Damocles Gulph Crusades and the other is a race made up of Psykers.

Alright,..that sounds about correct...personally I can only really speak for the Dark Angels, so all this help is rather good...

btw srry about my disappearance...been a little busy lately...still need to get some eldar and tau fluff pros in here to set everything straight and such...orks still need some work with internal affairs...chaos also needs to be a little fleshed out...

Does anyone agree that the Ultras/Smurfs should be BB with all internal forces because they're all such goody goodies...with pretty much the most lenient with all the Imperial Allegiances...like the Tau Treaty that allows them to be BB with Space Marines in the 6th ed rules...also that the Tyranid are their most hated enemies...

Which of the other founding chapters strictly follow the Codex Astartes too?...because they would most likely have the same Allegiances as the Ultras...they might view the arms of the Inquisition (Grey Knights, Inquisition, Sisters of Battle) differently though...

I would say salamander SM are come the appoc with anything but the forces of the imperium.

Are they Xenophobic like the Dark Angels...or are they just Isolationists?...the difference could change the structure of their section of the allies chart...

Because they promised the emporah for not being at the battle for terra they would purge all xenos and chaos and not rest till they have all been purged. But they belive in every member of the imperium being frends (look at baddab war they would not join in until they were proven traitor. They would not ally with xenos or chaos they would kill all of them withought question.

No way in hell are the Dark Eldar and Eldar Battle Brothers.

Not unless Chaos Marines and Space Marines can be.

Maybe same 'race' but two totally different idealogies and goals. These two would kill on sight of each other unless Chaos or Nids show up, and still try and scheme against one another to ensure thier demise at a later date.

The dark eldar and eldar are like chaos and imperium

Sounds like Xenophobia on the level of the Dark Angels...ideally I set up the Dark Angels as only able to ally with Craftworld Eldar and Tau, under desperate circumstances only...I'd imagine that the Salamanders would be similar to the Dark Angels for all other forces outside of the Imperium...would you be totally against the Salamanders being Desperate Allies with Eldar and Tau seeing as they would be the only forces respectable and reasonable enough to forget their differences in the face of a greater common foe...

Also I understand that the Salamanders are BB with all the Space Marines and Imperial Guard...how do they view the Administratum?...I ask this question because I know that the Dark Angels hate them and barely tolerate their interloping...and that more than one Inquisitor asking questions have been known to disappear around the Dark Angels...also the Sisters of Battle have a shaky relationship as it is with the Space Marines in general as they view their Primarchs and the Emperor in the same light...as great men...the Sisters think the Emperor should never have an equal ever and that he should be revered as a god and nothing less...which has been the cause of occasional exchanges of bullets between the two groups...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Harlequins are actually independent of the Craftworld Eldar and the Dark Eldar, they are actually the only existing link between the two...they follow the laughing god as opposed to the Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar which revere Khaine...the Eldar god of war...the Craftworld Eldar would have an alleigance of AoC or less with the Dark Eldar when I get some more Eldar Opinions...

I've been contemplating making it so that the Dark Eldar have a append that states that any army that intends to have Craftworld Eldar may not contain Incubi...as there right of passage is to kill craftworld aspect warriors...

Salamanders would not care about tau and eldar as much but chaos orks or dE are a no no inquisitors would not mind them as they trust the inquistion

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
No way in hell are the Dark Eldar and Eldar Battle Brothers.

Not unless Chaos Marines and Space Marines can be.

Maybe same 'race' but two totally different idealogies and goals. These two would kill on sight of each other unless Chaos or Nids show up, and still try and scheme against one another to ensure thier demise at a later date.

Except the fluff clearly has the Dark Eldar going to the aid of the Eldar.



I against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousin, my family and I against stranger.

Mabey on them desperate allies