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The shred/fleshbane confusion sounds more likely from both a balance and fluff perspective.

Wow, that sounds like someone's gonna get some Falses.

I'm thinking Shred if anything for the Shruken weaponry. It gives the army a niche item that others don't blanket yet.

Since GW sees all and knows all...I'm going to restate...PLEASE make the Eldar fighter a true interceptor and have it be scary in air-to-air.

I have my doubts about both of those.

Shred, I could see though.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
I cant see either of those being used IMO...

1) Bane of Flesh is ridiculously overpowered if the rumored point drop in guardians is true... if this does happen, ork players will shelve their armies, Eldar will make a mockery of every ward dex (which wont happen) with their basic troops, and every new fluffy SM bike army will take a massive hit to the gonads...

2) two words and a numeral: bladstorm salvo 4...
dire avengers already spit out obscene amounts of fire with three shots every other turn, now people want to make it 5? thats 50 shots without an exarch, and if my math is correct, an exarch should add 8 shots with dual ASCs, with an extra shot for Bladestorm makes 59 shots that will probably have reroll to hit at the minimum, and possibly firing at a target under the effects of doom... that amounts to roughly 55 hits, and around 50 wounds... I dont care who you are, that is cooooooold...

Of course, if Ward is indeed writing the Eldar codex, then Fleshbane might be true...

I mean, he did just give High Elves an instant, insanely cheap hard-counter to the entire Daemons of Chaos army! (meaning he's now 4-for-4 on screwing up Daemons big time)
What's to stop him from thinking that having the ability for army-wide 2+ to-wound isn't balanced?!

rain of shuriken maybe, but fleshbane on shuricans... lol theres no way that will ever happen. ever. 10 dire avengers with bladestorm and doom could probably wipe a tac squad O.o

well maybe not, theyd probably kill 5-6 of them, but still, that would be pretty insane, 20 guide-doom guardians would be immense aswell

 Malthor wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
That and the Shrieker Cannon has both Poisoned (4+) and Fleshbane, which don't even work together.

Technically it could work... It would provide a 2++ to wound due to the poison since poison provides a re-roll for units it hits with less str.

The reroll is only for CC poison weapons though.

Good catch! Ty

I'm still expecting the S to go down to 3 and the catapults to become Assault 3.

Hopefully a range increase too, making them look like:

24" S3 AP5 Assault 3.

Iranna.

pretre wrote:Wow, that sounds like someone's gonna get some Falses.

*grabs the big red pen*

Iranna wrote:I'm still expecting the S to go down to 3 and the catapults to become Assault 3.

Hopefully a range increase too, making them look like:

24" S3 AP5 Assault 3.

Iranna.

I've always thought Str3 Assault 3 was more suitable and proposed as much myself.

Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.

The Chaos Daemon's Iron Claw can only be mounted on a walker. It's unwieldy. Walkers ignore unwieldy, as per the unwieldy rule. So, while I see your point, hopefully, you can see mine.

Shred would make Eldar weaponry very, very ridiculously OP. Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally. Just tag-team DA's and you can delete whatever you want from the board, for ludicrously cheap. It would also make the army very unweildy - rerolling so many dice just gets tiresome. Possibly if the weaponry goes to s3, but even still...

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.

+1

Salvo on shuriken cannons 3/6 would be absurdly overpowered given the usual wielders : imagine a bog standard trio of war walkers put in a firing position, they would unleash 6*2*3 = 36 STR 6 AP 5 shots ! Horrible.
Salvo 2/4 basic shuriken is not reasonable on jetbikes either. An ordinary six jetbikes squad, not upgraded with shuricannon would yield 24 shots @ STR4. Without farseer support, that is 8 easy kills on GEQ, two on average on MEQ.

The other rumored version looks like a crazy idea of drunk conceptor on friday's evening. Near army-wide 2+ to wound everyone is nonsense, that would screw half codices of the game. Against ork / Marines it's equivalent to STR 6, against 'nids big bugs, it's equivalent to STR 8. No no no !

However, I can't decide which of two versions is the most absurd. The only part that seems plausible to me is... the rest in fact : remove salvo & fleshbane and you have a nice gradation of weapon profiles.

Uber, if you are talking tag teaming avenger squads you need two squads of avegers (about 177 ea) two farseers (about 100-150 ea). So you find it horrible that 540 pts of Eldar could kill a 150-200 pt marine squad? Oh the horror!

Even if one avenger squad can kill up to 6-8 marines thats still almost 300 pts of stuff against half that amount. Sounds about right to me.

uberjoras wrote:
Shred would make Eldar weaponry very, very ridiculously OP. Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally. Just tag-team DA's and you can delete whatever you want from the board, for ludicrously cheap. It would also make the army very unweildy - rerolling so many dice just gets tiresome. Possibly if the weaponry goes to s3, but even still...

The issue with this analysis is you're assuming the weapons change (to gain Shred), and nothing else changes to weaken the army. Also, Shred+Doom doesn't actually stack, so Guide/Doom/Bladestorm already does exactly what you're saying is overpowered.

Edit: still think the rumors are wrong, even if they "meant" Shred.

I thought doom caused rerolls to successful saves? (Not an Eldar player) If not, isn't there a divination power that does this anyways?

The tag-teams only need one farseer per two DA squads anyways.

The issue with the reasoning of "it takes 2x the points of target unit to kill it" is that in a 2k game you can, even to armies g2g in cover, kill 500+ points with a *very* simple combo on the first turn, reliably. In the case of the DA's, it's actually about 300 points to kill 200 of most marines if you include their typical gear. For example, even 3 dual-plasma crisis suits with markerlights only kill 8/9 marines on average, and need to be within 12", and need 100 points of squishy markerlight support to do this. 10 DA's would be able to do this from 18" with farseers behind/out of LOS, while also probably scoring.

A Range increase on shuriken weapons? Sure. ROF increase for a S decrease, also sure. Just adding shred onto them would be ridiculous. It's exactly like saying "FW aren't strong enough, let's give them s6 guns!"

Strength 3 guns would be incredibly awful no matter if they were assault 3. You wouldn't be able to glance any vehicle or wound T7 at all. Re-rolls don't help when the chance is 0.

The problem with Eldar isn't their inability to wound things so shred is fairly pointless. We just need vehicles and units that are playable again. For an army that is supposed to one of the fastest instead Eldar is quite slow (at least with the units that are playable).

Still unsure why T8 wraithlords are a big deal as they were designed to be comparable to dreadnoughts yet T8 is only AV 11/12. Even T10 is easier to wound than a land raider.

So silly question time, has there been any updates on the solitaire HQ and variant jetbike rumours that popped up a little while ago, I'm trying to build a Harlequin themed army.

Nope, not yet.

 Red Viper wrote:

Salvo is a great rule, but I doesn't seem right.

As a general rule, I think it still needs work.

I guess we have another week, before we get anything solid on rumors.

 Kirasu wrote:

The problem with Eldar isn't their inability to wound things so shred is fairly pointless. We just need vehicles and units that are playable again. For an army that is supposed to one of the fastest instead Eldar is quite slow (at least with the units that are playable).

While I can't comment on what Eldar need, I'd say it's fairly clear that this rule is based on the fluff and being introduced as a new way Eldar are different, rather than a rule to help balance out the army. Hopefully there would be some other rules/units that did that in support of this fluff one that is rumoured.

Doom causes all wounds against the affected unit to be re-rolled.

Misfortune is a big rulebook power that causes the sucesful saves by the affected unit to be re-rolled.

Both are awesome.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.

The Chaos Daemon's Iron Claw can only be mounted on a walker. It's unwieldy. Walkers ignore unwieldy, as per the unwieldy rule. So, while I see your point, hopefully, you can see mine.

If your point is that logical inconsistencies have never stopped GW from doing something silly before, I totally agree with it.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 Red Viper wrote:

Salvo is a great rule, but I doesn't seem right.

As a general rule, I think it still needs work.

The problem is that it's too much like Rapid Fire.

It needs to be that no matter what the weapon's XX" range is that the first number for the weapons rate of fire is used when moving and the second number is for sitting still or being fired from a vehicle.

If Eldar get Fleshbane then I think we are going to see a lot of WS in tournaments that carry DA's, but if we do get Flesh think of what power (the one most people b***h about) might be taken away because we need to be balanced out....Lots of people are not taking into account other things Eldar have that GW would probably love to take away out of sheer spite and just give us only one option.

uberjoras wrote:
Shred would make Eldar weaponry very, very ridiculously OP. Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally. Just tag-team DA's and you can delete whatever you want from the board, for ludicrously cheap. It would also make the army very unweildy - rerolling so many dice just gets tiresome. Possibly if the weaponry goes to s3, but even still...

Who's to say that we even retain Guide and Doom? I haven't heard a peep about the Eldar psyker powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rolt wrote:
So silly question time, has there been any updates on the solitaire HQ and variant jetbike rumours that popped up a little while ago, I'm trying to build a Harlequin themed army.

No, but having just read The Masque of Vyle, I'd love to see what a competent game designer could do with a Solitaire.

Having played a purely Harlequin army in 2nd edition, I can say that the Solitaire could single-handedly wipe out half an army with the right wargear. Of course the game wasn't very well balanced back then.

uberjoras wrote:
]Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally.

Shred and doom don't stack since they both provide rerolls to wound and it is only ever possible to reroll once.

Replace doom with the BRB Misfortune, and you've got the same thing. Perhaps there's even better powers given to the elda-specific chart. Whatever the case, shred would necessitate a pretty big points hike on dire avengers, much less everything else Eldar.