Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have always wanted to model/paint a titan. Considering the relative prices of Citadel and FW, the Wraithknight is the best chance I have ever gotten. I am 98% sure I will never purchase a Revenant, much less a Phantom. Also, I have always like the Wraithguard design and to my eyes the Wraithknight makes aesthetic sense. Even if I do not build an Eldar army around it, I am pretty sure I will still get a Wraithknight.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Since the current trend is a big thing and flyers. What are they going to do with marines and orks I wonder. We already have our flyers orks have 3 marines have 2.

Thunderhawk and squiggoth I am guessing.

Given the current direction, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a generic version of the Dreadknight for regular Marines. And while the Squiggoth would make sense, they seem to be steering away from anything that Forgeworld has already done, so it will most likely be some sort of mid-size mini-stompa or somesuch.

 insaniak wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I would have been far more surprised if they had. They're making vehicles for a science fantasy game of toy soldiers.

[img]
http://api.ning.com:80/files/Nms4BXkXV0y1AFFQWuva6Gre1Hta5IawBMmdma8sL-QjHxuK0cBiJrNY758ECQb8pIPFyLS6f7NaNuZWkL4CqrQjd02fsKTO/giorgiofeat__span.jpg[/img]

This man.

I laugh at the whole consult an engineer thing.
Go on, go ask a professional engineer (an actual LICENSED P.E.) about that ask him what a space ship piloted by imaginary homoerotic elves should look like irl and watch him laugh and call you slowed. It's sci fi bro. My two year old would be as much an authority of whqt is "legit" here as any of us. The likely result of them asking an engineering firm is the price being even higher because realism.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
And to be fair GW actually had a reasonable expectation already of what people would pay based on a similar product of size recently released.

Odd that people think the Dreamforge model is well priced and then claim a taller model with all the parts is to expensive just cause it's produced by GW.

To be fair, that's comparing a Rolls Royce to a space hopper. To elaborate: the Crusader is more massive, even if the Wraithknight appears taller, since the former is not built like a stick insect. Furthermore, the Crusader is also fully poseable to a degree that GW has never been able to engineer. The promise of additional weapons, modular armament possibilities, finer sculpt quality and sheer aesthetic value would also meand that its perceived value is greated to that seen in the admittedly lackluster pictures of the Wraithknight. They are two different objects, comparing them is an excercise of questionable value.

Furthermore, you're engaging in the common fallacy of taking two opinions espoused by people on this forum and them yoking them together as if one person made both. You're being intentionally misleading, unless you can produce actual individuals who have said that a) The Wraithknight is overpriced and b) the Leviathan Crusader is a fair price. Failure to do so just means your rhetorical case is based on deception.

Oh aren't you adorable.

First, regarding the quality of the models involved. I own a Dreamforge Leviathan. I backed the project for additional arms and such which is cool. That said, the model isn't actually that posable. You can lift one leg to make like it's stepping on something or above something and the torso twists to a certain degree. It is not super posable as you seem to suggest. As for finer sculpt quality that's questionable. The larger GW kits I've got suggest that this one will be as excellent as previous ones. The Dreamforge model is excellent. Ergo, quality wise I'm seeing something similar. Modular armaments isn't something you should get into. The GW one is likely to come with all equipable weapons and while I'll have to magnetize them I won't have to pay $30 for each additional arm weapon.

And yeah, people are comparing the two's prices and it's the same people bemoaning the price of the Wraithknight and have previously said the Crusader was a steal for it's cost.

The only difference worth mentioning is Polonius's that it's not a rare model/half your army unit that situational. It's a single unit that's likely to only take up about 16% of an army list. So in that respect the other options could have a higher perceived value for the cost.

resipsa wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I would have been far more surprised if they had. They're making vehicles for a science fantasy game of toy soldiers.

This man.

I laugh at the whole consult an engineer thing.
Go on, go ask a professional engineer (an actual LICENSED P.E.) about that ask him what a space ship piloted by imaginary homoerotic elves should look like irl and watch him laugh and call you slowed. It's sci fi bro. My two year old would be as much an authority of whqt is "legit" here as any of us. The likely result of them asking an engineering firm is the price being even higher because realism.

Consulting an engineer is indeed excessive, but they could have at least looked at a photograph of something that flies.

Also:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
The aircraft.... Horrible. May be in contention for worst design yet, next to the SM chickenhawk.

I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I hope you realize this is the same race that can keep their souls in stones after they die.

Verisimilitude

In fantasy/scifi, we assume everything adheres to our reality.
If something detracts from reality, an explanation is given (magic, technology, soulstones, etc)
If an explanation is not given, then it is silly (Flying Bawkses, Tau Plot Armor, Heldrake)

Essentially, categorizing something as "scifi" or "fantasy" is not free reign to descend into surrealism.

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Have the author(s) for the Codex and Iyanden supplement been confirmed?

A bit OT: How is Iyanden pronounced?

Anyone care to answer?

Someone already did, check the top of page 76....

 The Spiritseer wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Have the author(s) for the Codex and Iyanden supplement been confirmed?

A bit OT: How is Iyanden pronounced?

Anyone care to answer?

It was answered a page or so back.

Any hints from the battle report about what slots the Wraithlord and Wraithknight occupy?

I, uh... really hope they aren't both heavy.

HELLO....

Its Sci-fi guys...anti-grav...lazers...aliens...

Who cares if it "looks" like it could fly?

The models look SWEET and im gonna get a flyer and make it the fighter...i already own the FW Bomber...

As far as the WK....Totally cool and Ill pick one up!!!

I am still hoping for my Exodites to make an appearance..

Hulksmash wrote:Someone already did, check the top of page 76....

pretre wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Have the author(s) for the Codex and Iyanden supplement been confirmed?

A bit OT: How is Iyanden pronounced?

Anyone care to answer?

It was answered a page or so back.

He only posted on how he pronounced Iyanden. But no replies on the Author(s).

 The Spiritseer wrote:
He only posted on how he pronounced Iyanden. But no replies on the Author(s).

We assumed you were asking the question that had an answer. If we knew the other, it would have been posted. Continually posting asking the same question won't get you an answer.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
HELLO....

Its Sci-fi guys...anti-grav...lazers...aliens...

Who cares if it "looks" like it could fly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verisimilitude_%28narrative%29

RB wrote:
There was a time we worried about codex one upmanship. Now we have to worry about models getting to big for the table.

Consider that the Dreadknight 5-6", Riptide 6-7', and now the Eldar Wraithknight 9". Can you possibly venture a guess at the Ork construct?

Think mini Gargant 12"

RB

Not really a mini Gargant at 12". Armorcast Gargants are 13" tall...

 Hulksmash wrote:
And to be fair GW actually had a reasonable expectation already of what people would pay based on a similar product of size recently released.

Odd that people think the Dreamforge model is well priced and then claim a taller model with all the parts is to expensive just cause it's produced by GW.

Interesting that with a 9" Eldar Knight, the Dreamforge Leviathans are now well sized well for Imperial Knights. Had been thinking that the Leviathans were too large for an Imperial Knight, but that just went out the window with the release of the Wraith Knight.

T

Hopefully the 5 man dire avenger squad will actually not contain any models, but instead an apology and a voucher for a multipart plastic aspect warrior kit to be released at a later date.

Its like a kickstarter.

Goresaw wrote:
Hopefully the 5 man dire avenger squad will actually not contain any models, but instead an apology and a voucher for a multipart plastic aspect warrior kit to be released at a later date.

Its like a kickstarter.

good one

 LlamaAgility wrote:
So... if everyone gets an oval base model now... DO SPACE WOLVES GET GIANT FENRISIAN BEARS!?!?!?!

Bran Redmaw turns into a MC which could then be placed on an oval base. Winning!

Iracundus wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

Eberious wrote:
Any pics of them with the guns, I know will be much like the ones already but still wanna.

See first post for all pics. They are found in the Wraithknight pic with ranged weapons.

A random observation but what are those round oval shaped openings on either side of the chest? They look like either intake or exhaust vents. The Revenant has jump jets and the Wraithknight seems to share the shoulder vents/intake look of the Revenant. Does the Wraithknight jump at all?

Possibly. In the report they suggested that the Wraithknight could move faster than you would expect, not sure if this was jetpack/jump pack or long legs giving it a bigger base movement (like Titans) or something through a psychic power (since there was definitely a psychic power which somehow let the Wraithblades get into combat faster at one point).

The two different main weapons (Suncannon and Wraithlance or whatever it was called) look very similar btw, both are long pulsar type weapons, the only difference appears to be the muzzle/tip. Similar deal with the new alternate weapon for Wraithguard.

 Absolutionis wrote:

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
HELLO....

Its Sci-fi guys...anti-grav...lazers...aliens...

Who cares if it "looks" like it could fly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verisimilitude_%28narrative%29

Yeah? And?

Wow, finally read through like the last 30 pages...

I think with the frenzy over the last couple weeks, salt was forgotten with some of the rumors. So far this does seem to be the Iyanden release... that being said...



RUMOR:
New aspects models and jet bikes will be released with the appropriate upcoming craftworld supplement books.











SALT:
I just made that up. But plausible based on what is currently being released with the first craftworld supplement book?

 insaniak wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Since the current trend is a big thing and flyers. What are they going to do with marines and orks I wonder. We already have our flyers orks have 3 marines have 2.

Thunderhawk and squiggoth I am guessing.

Given the current direction, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a generic version of the Dreadknight for regular Marines. And while the Squiggoth would make sense, they seem to be steering away from anything that Forgeworld has already done, so it will most likely be some sort of mid-size mini-stompa or somesuch.

I hope not. I really don't want some huge vehicle that will get one shotted by a lascannon on turn one. I do not want a big ARMORED unit in my new ork army. If I am going to pay $80+ dollars for a model I don't want it to be taken out with one lucky shot. While other armies get a multi-wound toughness 6+ monsters that takes at least 4-6 minimum shots to kill.

pretre wrote:I agree the Dire Avenger price change is concerning, if it is true and there are no mitigating factors (amount in the box, etc.). We have not had confirmation though, so it is a bit early.

Unless the owner of my FLGS was trolling me, it's confirmed. I talked about this rumor with him and he said "Oh yes, it's not a rumour. They are going to reduce the price tho... 3 pounds..." I believe the conversation was something like that.

And then I procedeed to buy the last box of Dire Avengers he had

So as I said, not confirmed yet.

 pretre wrote:
So as I said, not confirmed yet.

I hope it is, or else me and him must have a talk

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So as I said, not confirmed yet.

I hope it is, or else me and him must have a talk

Confirmation would be a WD leak showing prices or an announcement by GW.

Otherwise, I could say something like:
'Unless Kirby was trolling me, I was told by him that dire avengers would come with a free kitten'
as confirmation.

 pretre wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So as I said, not confirmed yet.

I hope it is, or else me and him must have a talk

Confirmation would be a WD leak showing prices or an announcement by GW.

Otherwise, I could say something like:
'Unless Kirby was trolling me, I was told by him that dire avengers would come with a free kitten'
as confirmation.

No, no, I understand what you mean. You can't accept something as confirmed just because of a random hint from a total random person. I meant I hope it's "confirmed" later on or me and my FLGS owner must have a talk about "So it wasn't a rumour, eh?" Sorry about the confusion, if you think it's better to delete the previous posts, please alert a mod

 insaniak wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I would have been far more surprised if they had. They're making vehicles for a science fantasy game of toy soldiers.

Just because you are making science fiction doesn't mean you shouldn't consult actual scientists and engineers.

For me and several of my more science/engineering friends, the interesting part about science fiction is the SCIENCE part. Just because it's fiction doesn't mean you completely ignore the science, IMO good science fiction creates a fictitious world but actually has the science to bridge the gap so while what's going on may not be possible, you could actually see how it might be possible given X, Y and Z.

But either way, like I said, I'm happy to suspend disbelief if something looks cool enough, like a lot of Imperial Navy aircraft, this thing however just does not look cool and the older eldar aircraft aesthetic was both cool and actually looked like it might be able to fly, hence why I'm disappointed in this model and see it as a step backward from the likes of a Nightwing or a Phoenix.

First off, 40k is pretty far from the kind of scifi that involves any actual "science." Second, if something doesn't look cool to you it's enough to say "it doesn't look cool to me" rather than couch your opinion as a fact by saying "that could never fly." Sure it could never fly. Just like space elves aren't really psychic.

 Manchu wrote:
First off, 40k is pretty far from the kind of scifi that involves any actual "science." Second, if something doesn't look cool to you it's enough to say "it doesn't look cool to me" rather than couch your opinion as a fact by saying "that could never fly." Sure it could never fly. Just like space elves aren't really psychic.

Yeah, I think 40k is probably closer to space-fantasy.

 Manchu wrote:
First off, 40k is pretty far from the kind of scifi that involves any actual "science." Second, if something doesn't look cool to you it's enough to say "it doesn't look cool to me" rather than couch your opinion as a fact by saying "that could never fly." Sure it could never fly. Just like space elves aren't really psychic.

The thing is, "it couldn't fly" is one of the reasons I don't like it It's a 2 pronged dislike... they've gone from something that looked like it could fly AND they made it look stubby, disproportionate and awkward (compared to existing Eldar flyers).

Just like a large part of the reason I dislike the Stormtalon is because it looks like something that belongs under water, not in the air. It could be the most awesome looking submarine in the world, it still doesn't look good on a flying stand.