Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't see how some people are complaining about WS survivability, saying things like if you don't go first or tau have markerlights makes them useless is just asking too much. The whole point of the Eldar is speed and fire power with advanced technology, the WS can now move 24 inches at cruising speed, get +1 to it's cover save and has a 60 inch range high strength ignore cover shot that you should be using on those pesky pathfinders. It's like saying Land raiders should be way cheaper because of all the lance weaponry in some armies making their AV14 vehicle av12. That's where a bit of strategy and planning comes in to play i.e. the part of the game that makes it fun.

Now if you're talking about lack of assault capability or lack of improvement to banshees that's ok but there may be something we're missing in regards to them.

 Hulksmash wrote:
The twin-link for the laser light has to be for the squad. Or it'd be pointless.

Assuming it is for the squad (like has been indicated) Vypers, Walkers, and Guardians are insane. You actually don't need guide anymore for these units. Vyper's costing around 60pts each (after adding a second cannon) and then add one scatter laser so maybe 190 for the squad putting out 4 St6 BS4 shots and 15 TL-St6 BS4 shots that ignore armor on a 6 to wound. That's pretty impressive. Same thing for Warwalkers which can outflank.

Sisters of battle do the same shenanigan with their heavy bolters and it does not work all that well for them. Plus they do it cheaper.

So St5 is the same as stregth 6? And they have the ability to move and fire at full capacity? And they are immune to St3 weapons? A 5++ is the same a 6++? And they can outflank? and 12 Shots are totally the same thing as 19? And Warwalkers need to take a test to get the ignore armor? And the Retributors are twin-linked?

Seriously dude?

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
The twin-link for the laser light has to be for the squad. Or it'd be pointless.

Assuming it is for the squad (like has been indicated) Vypers, Walkers, and Guardians are insane. You actually don't need guide anymore for these units. Vyper's costing around 60pts each (after adding a second cannon) and then add one scatter laser so maybe 190 for the squad putting out 4 St6 BS4 shots and 15 TL-St6 BS4 shots that ignore armor on a 6 to wound. That's pretty impressive. Same thing for Warwalkers which can outflank.

Sisters of battle do the same shenanigan with their heavy bolters and it does not work all that well for them. Plus they do it cheaper.

Umm, Not so much. It works out quite well for Rets. A Retri-Bastion runs about 180 or so and puts out only 15-18 S5 AP4 shots that only ignore an armor save on a 4+ for the squad and then a 6 to wound. A little different and it still works great. Another strength and no 'activation roll' is better.

edit: Totally ninja'd by Hulk

Oops, mine was on Warwalkers. Well most of those points still stand Though you can pull the scout/outflank part out

Quark wrote:
The little document icon next to the timestamp is a link.

thanks

 Hulksmash wrote:
Oops, mine was on Warwalkers. Well most of those points still stand Though you can pull the scout/outflank part out

Points definitely stand, they are only superficially the same because they 'rend'. Totally different on the field.

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:
I don't see how some people are complaining about WS survivability, saying things like if you don't go first or tau have markerlights makes them useless is just asking too much. The whole point of the Eldar is speed and fire power with advanced technology, the WS can now move 24 inches at cruising speed, get +1 to it's cover save and has a 60 inch range high strength ignore cover shot that you should be using on those pesky pathfinders. It's like saying Land raiders should be way cheaper because of all the lance weaponry in some armies making their AV14 vehicle av12. That's where a bit of strategy and planning comes in to play i.e. the part of the game that makes it fun..

115pt base + 15 pts for holofield + weapon upgrades + contents to take it in the first place. Biggest issue: If you get near assault, you're dead which is what they eventually have to do to get the contents out. Compare that cost to the cost of a pile of jetbikes that can move even faster, shoot twin link psuedo rending, and don't have to get out to score.

I see Waveserpents more as Wraith unit delivery systems. Not much else is worth putting in them honestly. Scorpions can almost walk across the field, Banshees aren't worth their points, bikes and foot guardians are better than mounted guardians or dire avengers and while I like Fire Dragons they don't feel as required in this book. But maybe them and Wraith units only

 Hulksmash wrote:
I see Waveserpents more as Wraith unit delivery systems. Not much else is worth putting in them honestly. Scorpions can almost walk across the field, Banshees aren't worth their points, bikes and foot guardians are better than mounted guardians or dire avengers and while I like Fire Dragons they don't feel as required in this book. But maybe them and Wraith units only

I am not putting 5 wraiths in a WS

GTKA666 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I see Waveserpents more as Wraith unit delivery systems. Not much else is worth putting in them honestly. Scorpions can almost walk across the field, Banshees aren't worth their points, bikes and foot guardians are better than mounted guardians or dire avengers and while I like Fire Dragons they don't feel as required in this book. But maybe them and Wraith units only

I am not putting 5 wraiths in a WS

Yeah, the Overlord will probably get mad that you're consorting with Eldar.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I see Waveserpents more as Wraith unit delivery systems. Not much else is worth putting in them honestly. Scorpions can almost walk across the field, Banshees aren't worth their points, bikes and foot guardians are better than mounted guardians or dire avengers and while I like Fire Dragons they don't feel as required in this book. But maybe them and Wraith units only

Meh when the cost of the serpent will be damn near the cost of a unit of wraithguard you might as well fully go foot. if you are running wraithguard there is no reason not to make them troops and good all out outside of slaughtering you wallet.

I am so excited for these models and new codex to come out but i will miss my old eldar mind tricks

Sorry, just seeing a lot of potential based on the rumors. I'm not going to drag down the thread with trying to explain how important disruption can be or the multitude of new avenues a lot of these rumors are opening up.

I'll simply be content to say the WS has a place. Wraith units of 5 in Wave Serpents have a place. Foot Wraith isn't the only Wraith anymore. And that doesn't touch on the rest of the codex full of what appears to be awesome. Though the rumors could be wrong or missing important sentences. We'll have to see.

can't you fit 6 in a Wave Serp now?

Doesn't it say Transp 12? and Bulky = 2?

so 6 WraithX's.

Correct though if you can attach a warlock to them still then you may want to do 5+ warlock. It really depends on the fine print of how the warlock powers are worded and purchased/rolled for. they could be awesome now or they could be worse off then before. So far from the rumors/leaks it looks like they are too unpredictable to be worth it.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Correct though if you can attach a warlock to them still then you may want to do 5+ warlock. It really depends on the fine print of how the warlock powers are worded and purchased/rolled for. they could be awesome now or they could be worse off then before. So far from the rumors/leaks it looks like they are too unpredictable to be worth it.

Someone has posted the picture of the Warlock entry: they can no longer be attached to Wraith units. the WD battle report screwed that up (most likely it was done with an early version of the rules, or the Eldar player didn't bother to check).

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Just read the spoilers for the Wave Sepent. So let me get this straight. To justify the massive cost of our weak transports they gave us a gimmick of a shield instead of the desperately needed assault upgrade. Guess you've gotta make sure the cash cow marines keep the "only ones with assault vehicles" status.

I cringe at the thought of how stupidly expensive our weapons and equipment are going to be. Going to be good to know Kelly can still fire up that random number generator for determining points cost.

If you're so unhappy with everything Eldar, why not put your stuff up for sale on Ebay? Hopefully cheap

And for the sake of argument, Open Topped should count as assault vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm really excited to hear about the state the Scorpions are now in - my favorite Aspect and Phoenix Lord, now with the whole "infiltrating issue' of past editions solved!

Plus, I can now field this guy to complete the theme (thanks redfinger!):

[/img]

(I'm glad the Wraithlord is still T8 too!)

I don't think I'll be gettng a Wraithknight Scorpion version made though...

I don't think...

That pose is AWESOME! Very nice work.

Any one knows how much are the wraiths with ap2 flamer?. Can the whole unit take them or just one guy?.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Any one knows how much are the wraiths with ap2 flamer?. Can the whole unit take them or just one guy?.

160 pts for 5, pretty sure d-scythes are free? also has to be the whole unit, all wraith cannons or all d-scythes.

Nocturnus wrote:

That pose is AWESOME! Very nice work.

I agree, that is an amazing Wraithlord.

Unfortunately it just inspired me to make a Dark Reaper Wraithknight that is holding both of its Wraithcannons horizontally, like a gigantic twin-linked beast of a gun.

That... is going to be difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darge wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Any one knows how much are the wraiths with ap2 flamer?. Can the whole unit take them or just one guy?.

160 pts for 5, pretty sure d-scythes are free? also has to be the whole unit, all wraith cannons or all d-scythes.

D-scythes are +10 ppm, and you do have to replace the whole unit's weapons with them.

So do we already know what the Dark Reaper targeting array does?

 Magc8Ball wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

That pose is AWESOME! Very nice work.

I agree, that is an amazing Wraithlord.

Unfortunately it just inspired me to make a Dark Reaper Wraithknight that is holding both of its Wraithcannons horizontally, like a gigantic twin-linked beast of a gun.

That... is going to be difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darge wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Any one knows how much are the wraiths with ap2 flamer?. Can the whole unit take them or just one guy?.

160 pts for 5, pretty sure d-scythes are free? also has to be the whole unit, all wraith cannons or all d-scythes.

D-scythes are +10 ppm, and you do have to replace the whole unit's weapons with them.

Ah thanks for clearing that up, I wasnt sure my self. Good news I'll have the Weapon entries up sonn, trying to figure out how to organize them right now, thinking of list multiple organization spots ei. Haveing the normal heavy weapons group but also having a laser weapon group that has bright lances, scatter lasers, in addition to lasblasters ect.

 Magc8Ball wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

That pose is AWESOME! Very nice work.

I agree, that is an amazing Wraithlord.

Unfortunately it just inspired me to make a Dark Reaper Wraithknight that is holding both of its Wraithcannons horizontally, like a gigantic twin-linked beast of a gun.

That... is going to be difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darge wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Any one knows how much are the wraiths with ap2 flamer?. Can the whole unit take them or just one guy?.

160 pts for 5, pretty sure d-scythes are free? also has to be the whole unit, all wraith cannons or all d-scythes.

D-scythes are +10 ppm, and you do have to replace the whole unit's weapons with them.

Thats a shame, then you are into the 210 points before the 110+ points transport. Way too much im afraid, they would certainly cream what ever you point them to, but 330+ for that is a bit much. And 5 mega deadly shots dont do enough damage, unless you use it as tank hunters.

 Popenfresh wrote:
So do we already know what the Dark Reaper targeting array does?

on friday we will

xxvaderxx wrote:
And 5 mega deadly shots dont do enough damage, unless you use it as tank hunters.

Yeah, and at that point Fire Dragons are better for the role. The Wraiths will do a number on pretty much any Tyranid MC you can find, at least...

Hulksmash wrote:The twin-link for the laser light has to be for the squad. Or it'd be pointless.

Assuming it is for the squad (like has been indicated) Vypers, Walkers, and Guardians are insane. You actually don't need guide anymore for these units. Vyper's costing around 60pts each (after adding a second cannon) and then add one scatter laser so maybe 190 for the squad putting out 4 St6 BS4 shots and 15 TL-St6 BS4 shots that ignore armor on a 6 to wound. That's pretty impressive. Same thing for Warwalkers which can outflank.

Laser Lock is per model sadly, now that I think about it its really not going to come up that much as very few models have the weapons to make use of it. Walkers would need to run 1 Scatter and 1 other weapon, Cannons don't match the range band and Missiles don't really have the same targets. It would have been amazing on the Wraithknight, but sadly unless there is some special rule I have missed the Wraithknight is still limited to firing 2 weapons which means you are probably best to just run it naked.

Gangrel767 wrote:I might have missed some discussion on this in the preceding 146 pages from this topic, but has anyone noticed how improved GJB are... and they have gotten a BS increase, Ancient Doom, And Battle Focus plus a 5 point decrease in points!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

was there an email or something? I haven't received any word mine has shipped.

Yeah Jetbikes are one of the major highlights in the codex, which just makes the lack of a new model hurt more. They were already probably the best Eldar scoring unit (aside from the Wraithguard blob) and they dropped in price, got BS4 and WS4 and a better weapon. The Warlock powers just put icing on the cake, if you get the +1 armour save power then you have 2+ saves on models which can grab objectives from 48" away which is insane and crucially even the Primaris helps them out quite a bit, 3+ cover is very nice as well.

The biggest thing I'm starting to realise is that this codex can almost stand on its own without psychic buffs. BS4 everywhere makes a huge difference.

Gangrel767 wrote:I might have missed some discussion on this in the preceding 146 pages from this topic, but has anyone noticed how improved GJB are... and they have gotten a BS increase, Ancient Doom, And Battle Focus plus a 5 point decrease in points!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

was there an email or something? I haven't received any word mine has shipped.

Email with tracking information.

megatrons2nd wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

Awesome news. Taking a sick day tomorrow, right?

No. FedEx arrives late to my house anyway.

Shandara wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

What!? GW shipping _before_ release? What trickery is this.

It isn't the first time. I had this happen before, like with Vampire Counts. It might have aided that I ordered within an hour of preorders going up and it was just the Codex and Cards. No kits.

 Magc8Ball wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
And 5 mega deadly shots dont do enough damage, unless you use it as tank hunters.

Yeah, and at that point Fire Dragons are better for the role. The Wraiths will do a number on pretty much any Tyranid MC you can find, at least...

So sad, i love the models, but the life of me i cant find them a decent role. May be 2 or 3 units with swords and axes (like 3 swords 2 axes) and rush them up front. Force your opponent to deal with them or be cut into pieces?. Thats about 280 points transport included, more affordable.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Sorry, just seeing a lot of potential based on the rumors. I'm not going to drag down the thread with trying to explain how important disruption can be or the multitude of new avenues a lot of these rumors are opening up.

I'll simply be content to say the WS has a place. Wraith units of 5 in Wave Serpents have a place. Foot Wraith isn't the only Wraith anymore. And that doesn't touch on the rest of the codex full of what appears to be awesome. Though the rumors could be wrong or missing important sentences. We'll have to see.

Exactly with all these new additions to existing units (Bar howling banshees ) this is turning out to be a great addition to the 6th edition game. I can honestly say from what I've seen so far I am extremely pleased with it, when I heard the WS was 115 pts base I thought it was crazy but now that I see the rules it's points balanced. SS have become really good as have guardians I can see myself fielding a 1.5k to 2k army consisting of a farseer, PL/Avatar, seer council, SS, fire dragons, maybe harlequins along with guardians, dire avengers in WS, perhaps a unit of rangers to camp an objective, dark reapers, a squad of war walkers and whatever else I can afford in that range. I've always wanted to field a mostly food list with well defined roles and nice rules. It seems that is what we are getting.