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Ignatius wrote:

Angels of Death789 wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA guys watch the space marine movie. go to youtube and search "Warhammer 40k Ultramarine Movie" and the picture that it shows is candles

Go read the rulebook. Or the Space Marine codex. The actual representation of the Ultramarines within the universe before you cite a youtube movie as your ultimate source.

Its an official GW movie so the fluff is cannon.

The ultramarine hate got old years ago.

This chapter took on an entire hive fleet, face first, and broke it into little bits. This chapter is holding the Eastern Fringe under Imperium law and has the largest and most prosperous fiefdom in human controlled space.

Whilst the rest are falling into grimdark brooding, genocidal rages, slow extinction or just drinking themselves stupid (wolves, like the dwarves of space now we have no squats), the Ultramarines are keeping their gak together and doing what they were supposed to do.



As to perfection, they are as near to the ideal of the Astartes as possible and there is only one Chapter more perfect than them in terms of it's geneseed and they aren't conventional...

As a non-Ultramarine Space Marine player, here is my explanation: Matt Ward.

Matt Ward loves to write about how the UltraSmurfs are the greatest and the best, doing all these epic things because he like to ruin canon.

Example: The Grey Knights find daemon sword on planet that also housed a Sisters of Battle monastery (he loves killing them). The Grey Knights murder all the Sisters, cover their armor in their holy blood for protection, and take the sword for themselves.

My chapter, the Salamanders, is still safe from Ward's insanity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:The ultramarine hate got old years ago.

This chapter took on an entire hive fleet, face first, and broke it into little bits. This chapter is holding the Eastern Fringe under Imperium law and has the largest and most prosperous fiefdom in human controlled space.

Whilst the rest are falling into grimdark brooding, genocidal rages, slow extinction or just drinking themselves stupid (wolves, like the dwarves of space now we have no squats), the Ultramarines are keeping their gak together and doing what they were supposed to do.



As to perfection, they are as near to the ideal of the Astartes as possible and there is only one Chapter more perfect than them in terms of it's geneseed and they aren't conventional...

Have you forgotten the Salamanders? The Salamanders paid in blood during the Heresy while the Ultramarines fell into a trap and almost let Chaos win. They are the only chapter who went to Armageddon for the people of the world. The Salamanders purge worlds in the Emperor's name and physically rule their own planet and lead their own people. If you think killing some 'nids (aka Matt Ward's pets) is amazing, the Salamanders had a Battle Barge taken to Commorragh! They had to fight their way out of the worst place ever!

While the Ultras get all the glory, the Salamanders do all the real work and get a total of 2 special characters, 1 of which is no longer legal!

Who's the second, no longer legal special character? Obv. Vulkan is one, and i know the badab war books have Ashmantle and captain pellas, but was there another at some point?

Mongooli wrote:Who's the second, no longer legal special character? Obv. Vulkan is one, and i know the badab war books have Ashmantle and captain pellas, but was there another at some point?

A Chaplain named Xavier, IIRC.

Yes, it's Chaplain Xavier. I have his model and I use him as either a regular Chaplain or one with a Power Fist, as Chaplains sadly cannot use Thunder Hammers. Many people fielded him as a high-level Chaplain, but the 5th edition codex cut out extra levels of Chaplains and stat changes with upgraded Librarians.

Ultras are so cool that they have had as many special characters written out of the codex as most Chapters have playable ones.

At least the last part is true. At the very least I used to be able to field Ancient Helveticus with his company standard and Captain Invictus of the 1st company with his terminator armor and plasma-blaster.

I liked Space marines before they became comic book superheroes.

I have to admit, before Matt Ward, the Ultramarines were awesome because they had flaws. They were the everyday working marine, but now Matt Ward has made them ridiculous.

mcpothead wrote:

Its an official GW movie so the fluff is cannon.

No it's not.

GW purposefully builds the different media and creative divisions (e.g. Black Library, Forgeworld, etc.., in this case the movie) into different brands / subcompanies, etc.. , so they can exercise their creative freedom. They are not "bound by" or "the same" as the main studio's 40K. They are quite explicitly "a different interpretation".

See Abnett's remarks on the isse starting at about 17:30




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDZ0_lmcGy4&feature=player_embedded

Zweischneid wrote:They are not "bound by" or "the same" as the main studio's 40K. They are quite explicitly "a different interpretation".

Something like this really needs to be stickied some day.

Angels of Death789 wrote: Why are the Ultramarines so famous among the Imperium if they can be corrupted so easily?

I'm not sure if they are any more corruptible than the average Space Marine, and certainly less so than some.

As for why they are famous, the Ultramarines and their successors make up more than half of the total Space Marine chapters in service to the Imperium. The Ultramar system is renowned across the Imperium as a paradise (granted, a paradise with Orks and Tyranids, but every beautiful beach has its jellyfish), and Ultramarines in general interact with humans far more often and on far more amiable terms than some other major Chapters (Dark Angels - terrible secret, want to avoid Imperial scrutiny/meddling so they can search for the Fallen; Blood Angels - terrible secret; want to avoid Imperial scrutiny/meddling so they can concentrate on dying before they flip out; Space Wolves - relatively small area of influence compared to the others, dislike Imperial scrutiny/meddling in general so they can...um... continue being unique snowflakes or whatever).

Vulkan's Forgemaster wrote:

Have you forgotten the Salamanders? The Salamanders paid in blood during the Heresy while the Ultramarines fell into a trap and almost let Chaos win. They are the only chapter who went to Armageddon for the people of the world. The Salamanders purge worlds in the Emperor's name and physically rule their own planet and lead their own people. If you think killing some 'nids (aka Matt Ward's pets) is amazing, the Salamanders had a Battle Barge taken to Commorragh! They had to fight their way out of the worst place ever!

While the Ultras get all the glory, the Salamanders do all the real work and get a total of 2 special characters, 1 of which is no longer legal!

The Salamanders paid in blood while the Ultra.... What are you talking about? You do realize Vulken fell into a trap right? And more Ultramarines died during the Heresy than Salamanders (just based on legion numbers).

Salamanders were the only ones who went to Armageddon to save people? So the Angels of Fire, Angels of Redemption, Angels of Vigilance, Angels of Porphyr, Black Dragons, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Celebrants, Celestial Lions, Exorcists, Flesh Tearers, Iron Champions, Marines Malevolent, Mortifactors, Omega Marines, Raptors, Relictors, Silver Skulls, Sons of Guilleman, Space Wolves, Storm Giants, Storm Lords and White Scars... what were they doing?

Thirteen of those chapters sent equal or more companies than the Salamanders.

You know the Ultramarines "pysically" rule their own people, planet, sub-system, system, sub-sector, sector and segmentum right?

I do find the repultion of a Tyranid hive fleet amazing (by the way Matt Ward didn't write that). More amazing than a ship full of Salamaders running from a city of angry elves. (Not what I'd consider the "worst place ever" heard of the Eye of Terror?)

So salamaders do all the work? Could you site to me a few of the incredible feats that the Salamaders have undertaken? I haven't read the Sally novels.

 Vulkan's Forgemaster wrote:
I have to admit, before Matt Ward, the Ultramarines were awesome because they had flaws. They were the everyday working marine, but now Matt Ward has made them ridiculous.

Ward didn't really change the Ultramarines.

This is a common misconception that involves a lot of people filling in the blanks with their imagination rather than actually pointing at stuff that has been said, or not said, about the Ultramarines over the last twenty years. The Ultramarines have been called "The greatest of all Space Marines" all the way back to 1993's Codex Space Marines written by Rick Priestley.

Personally, I think the reason for the Ultras being perceived as the "posterboys" is much more simple - and similar to portrayal of armed forces in cinema and TV.
When writing for film and TV, certain units are generally singled out because they have become well known to the viewing public

A couple of examples of what I'm talking about, presented as "force needed to portray" and " shown on screen as":

British Special Forces - SAS.
British Army - Parachute Regiment.
US Special Forces - Delta, Rangers, SEALs.
US Navy Vessels - Iowa, Missouri, Enterprise, Eisenhower, Roosvelt.
US Army Helo (Vietnam) - 1st Air Cav.

There are a few more, but it basically comes down to the fact that these are not the be-all and end-all of what they are portraying, simply what the "public" has come to associate with the roles over time.

In this context the Ultra's are not the "main" force, they are simply what GW want the public to associate with the ideal of the baseline SM forces.

Just my opinion.

The Ultras became the posterboys because back at the start of 2nd Edition there was a "Big Four". Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines.

Why did they choose those four instead of the other chapters features back in the Rogue Trader days? Why not the Crimson Fists? Why not the Silver Skulls? Who knows? But those were the Big Four that got their own codex books. 2nd Edition was the foundation for what you can call "Modern 40K" with a coherent vision and background fluff.

Out of that Big Four, the Ultramarines were the only ones who didn't need any additional explanation. They don't have fangs and drink blood. They aren't furry space vikings. They don't wear emo hoodie bathrobes. They're just big guys in big armor with big guns.

Reaper6 touches on the basic concept. People know what Marines are. Whether we're talking British Royals or the USMC, people have a fairly good idea what a Marine is. He's supposed to be a square jawed bad ass. When you know what a real world Marine is, and you try to imagine one forty thousand years in the future, the Ultramarines look pretty much like that. There's no extra explanation needed for them. Big guys in big armor with big guns.

 DeffDred wrote:


Salamanders were the only ones who went to Armageddon to save people? So the Angels of Fire, Angels of Redemption, Angels of Vigilance, Angels of Porphyr, Black Dragons, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Celebrants, Celestial Lions, Exorcists, Flesh Tearers, Iron Champions, Marines Malevolent, Mortifactors, Omega Marines, Raptors, Relictors, Silver Skulls, Sons of Guilleman, Space Wolves, Storm Giants, Storm Lords and White Scars... what were they doing?

Hunting some ork. The vast majority of those chapters didn't give two flying frigs about saving people. They were there to kill orks and if they are feeling charitable, protecting Imperial resources.

Have a look at the novel, Helsreach, it shows a clear example of the differences between marines, particularly the Black Templars and Salamanders...

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Vulkan's Forgemaster wrote:
I have to admit, before Matt Ward, the Ultramarines were awesome because they had flaws. They were the everyday working marine, but now Matt Ward has made them ridiculous.

Ward didn't really change the Ultramarines.

This is a common misconception that involves a lot of people filling in the blanks with their imagination rather than actually pointing at stuff that has been said, or not said, about the Ultramarines over the last twenty years. The Ultramarines have been called "The greatest of all Space Marines" all the way back to 1993's Codex Space Marines written by Rick Priestley.

There are plenty of instances of Ward altering the fluff slightly to push the hyperbole to the max. One example I can think off the top of my head is the fluff for Tigurius. He copy&pasted the fluff verbatim, except the last sentence which used to state that Tigurius' hacking of the Hive Mind makes him "one of the greatest psykers in the Imperium" to omit the "one of".

And they still have a serious flaw. Their rigid adherence to the Codex can make them predictable and occasionally inflexible.

I don't think they're that vanilla anymore, I remember them in 2nd Ed, you'd buy the Ultramarines codex to model any marine chapter apart from BA, DA, SW. So in a sense back then, yes, they were the vanilla (their primarch did write Codex:Astartes after all...) Now they seem to have a more Roman feel, and have specialised non-codex units like tyrranic veterans. So IMO they've lost a lot of that old vanilla marine feel, for the better tbh.

Also comparing Commoragh with an entire hive fleet? Not sure if serious. Off the top of my head I could think of half-a-dozen other places in the 40K galaxy I'd rather NOT be than Commoragh. Eye of Terror, in the path of a hive fleet, aboard the Vengeful Spirit, in the Garden of Slaanesh, etc etc.

Marneus was, is, and always will be a total baller as well.

Just my take on it.