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I just received my order today, about £50 of Gamezone/scibor miniatures (well actually £100, but with 50% discount).

I think it's probably a bit of a lotto in terms of what you can buy (most of the good stuff is out of stock!), but it's quite nice with that 30% discount.

They always do that round up at the end of the show about small companies that are being jerks. It'd fit quite happily in there. And it would also match the BBC's recent article about online companies being dodgy about orders.

And the fact that we're still getting the "OMG SALES!!111!1!!" e-mails while not getting any serious reply to our refund requests is... sketchy at best.

redeyed wrote:
"Yes, that's exactly why they're doing it. :facepalm " as constructive as the rumour mongering there.


Sarcasm aside that is the most likely thing "facepalm". Just because you have not been directly affected by this does not mean others do not have a valid issue/complaint.


If there was a major problem with their ability to take cards OR their phoneline, AND it was something that would seriously affect customers. Wouldnt you think they would send an email round or put a notice up? (I dont know any business that would keep their active phoneline down for over 2 weeks)

If they werent trying to screen their customers dont you think SOMEONE would have got through by now or said otherwise other than putting facepalm emoticons?

Added to this someone would have actually got a reply to their query via email by now instead of being blanked.

AND obviously there are people who want to cancel, most companies would still allow/creative a facility to do this.


They are clearly still operating
They are clearly still sending out orders
They clearly still have the facility to send/recieve emails (even if magically their phoneline is down).

So it is not too much to expect a reply or some information from them.

Not sure if this is directed at me, as it doesn't read too well tbh.

But assuming it does.

1) People were stating that it was impossible that this was a phone fault. I was stating it quite possibly can be.
2) It is more than possible for a fault to affect a voice line and not the internet connection.
3) I wasn't disparaging other people's issues just because I was unaffected. I merely wished to illustrate that there is a lot of conclusion jumping and assumption making in this thread.

Fact is they are obviously under a lot of pressure and the amount of incoming contact is probably overwhelming. Their approach is t what I would do, but I don't have their issues!

You mean you'd do this?


Just remember to sing REALLY loud!

 azreal13 wrote:

But assuming it does.

1) People were stating that it was impossible that this was a phone fault. I was stating it quite possibly can be.
2) It is more than possible for a fault to affect a voice line and not the internet connection.
3) I wasn't disparaging other people's issues just because I was unaffected. I merely wished to illustrate that there is a lot of conclusion jumping and assumption making in this thread.

Fact is they are obviously under a lot of pressure and the amount of incoming contact is probably overwhelming. Their approach is t what I would do, but I don't have their issues!

Pretty much this.

Too many people are assuming Maelstrom have run off with their money to start a new life in the Cayman Islands or something. Since when have they ever acted like this? They have built up a lot of trust over the years and are the genuine article, unlike say Three Stage Studios and the like. From what I've seen in the past, such as with the end of the GW embargo last year, where they were literally up to their armpits in boxes and couldn't keep up, coupled with more GW shenanigans turning people to Warmahordes, of which their stock levels have never truly recovered.

They're victims of their own success and need more backstock. A good place to put this would be, I dunno, a new warehouse perhaps?

 Grimtuff wrote:
They have built up a lot of trust over the years and are the genuine article

Just to be a bit more balanced, a good history or track record can easily be derailed. It is all meaningless it's your current actions that define you. You don't get let off from a Legal offence because you were good in your past, it may mitigate the punishment slightly but you don't get let off.

The same with goes in all walks of life, integrity once gone cannot easily be replaced. The argument of they were good in past doesn't translate as they will be good now or in the future.

So I'm sorry I don't buy it, MG have been good the last 3 years or so, in the last 2-3 months there has been an exponential rise in the number of complaints and problems.

They're victims of their own success and need more backstock. A good place to put this would be, I dunno, a new warehouse perhaps?

A business with zero Cashflow is not successful. A Business that cannot buy in new lines like X-wing because of lack of Cash flow, that then decides to liquidate it's stock for less than it's value with 50% off (considering that 35% is the average retail profit margin) at a loss to generate cash flow so it can then buy the Lines it should have had the Cashflow for in the 1st place is bad management. By the time the money comes in, the "Feel good period" of the launch is gone, those who pre-ordered are annoyed and cancel / ask for a refund. This is a one way spiral.

 Yojiro wrote:
You mean you'd do this?


Just remember to sing REALLY loud!

Ha!

No, that's pretty much the opposite. I'd like to think I'd deal with it better than they appear to be, but I don't have any idea of the scale of their issues.

Besides, how many calls are answered each day?

We have no idea because nobody comes on an internet forum and says "hey, I called someone today and had no trouble at all"

There's a problem, that's obvious, but I'd hate a problem to turn into a Northern Rock when with a little understanding and cooperation between Maelstrom and their customers things could work out.

That said I DO understand the frustration of not being able to contact a company when you really need to, and those that are in that boat have my sympathies.

 azreal13 wrote:


Ha!

No, that's pretty much the opposite. I'd like to think I'd deal with it better than they appear to be, but I don't have any idea of the scale of their issues.

Besides, how many calls are answered each day?

We have no idea because nobody comes on an internet forum and says "hey, I called someone today and had no trouble at all"

There's a problem, that's obvious, but I'd hate a problem to turn into a Northern Rock when with a little understanding and cooperation between Maelstrom and their customers things could work out.

That said I DO understand the frustration of not being able to contact a company when you really need to, and those that are in that boat have my sympathies.

Touché for the empathy, my friend.

Regardless, what is truly ticking me off is just the appalling costumer service.

That alone is what swaying so many people against them. Even if we are blowing this out of proportion, their silence isn't really helping.

I pre-ordered the DV LE for the damned Chaplain. It took them 2 weeks to tell me "hey sorry we kinda... don't have enough of those LE's unlike we promised.. but HEY we'll give you the normal box and you'll keep the rest as shop credit"
... that was 3 weeks ago.

A company's semblance of integrity (or lack thereof) is everything, and it's double so when they deal so much in foreign trade.

But heh... Back to the ostrich!

 azreal13 wrote:
but I'd hate a problem to turn into a Northern Rock when with a little understanding and cooperation between Maelstrom and their customers things could work out.

By this are you infering the UK Government is going to bail out Maelstrom Games and then sell it after a period?

Northern Rock was best known for becoming the first bank in 150 years to suffer a bank run after having had to approach the Bank of England for a loan facility, to replace money market funding, during the credit crisis in 2007.[2] Having failed to find a commercial buyer for the business, it was taken into public ownership in 2008, and was then bought by Virgin Money in 2012.

Because it had nothing to do with the Northern Rock Customers, it had to do with the banks lack of Liquidity which essentially meant it didn't hae enough cash/assets held back and had over leant/ exposed it's position based on cheap credit available on the markets. Suddenly that easy cheap credit disappeared and they didn't have enough withheld to cover their liabilities when called on it, they suffered a run couldn't get a cheap loan or any loan and it spiralled.

My recollection is that a rumour that the bank was in difficulty resulted in investors queuing around the block in order to withdraw their money, which then turned a rumour into a stone cold fact.

Yes, it did but the Bank was over exposed, it should be easily able to meet it's customers requirements with a minimum 5% with holding of 4M and and a liability exposure of less than 40% - 50%. Especially as they held alot of Mortgages, Instead because they had used 95% of its investors Money on Speculative Investment banking across the globe.

When the Credit Crunch came the 95% of money it had leant for gain was invested in toxic / bad debt, resulting in £27 Billion of debt that could not/ would not ever be reclaimed due to the Sub-prime collapse in the US. It is like giving me £1000 and I only give you £250 back. 3/4 Of your investment is gone, they were then over exposed as they had to find the 75% somewhere, they couldn't because all banks were exposed and so lacked the liquidity to meet it's liabilities, resulting in everyone rushing to grab their savings. The Mortgages etc (e.g Good Assets) were sold to Virgin, the bad toxic debt £400million (still owned by the UK government BTW ) is underwritten by the UK , so that equals £5.70 for every man woman and child in the country which will never be written off, we all have to pay it off ourselves - NORTHERN ROCK were bunch of ****ing cowboys and we are paying for it.

The Over Exposure was the Cause - The Run on the bank was the effect.

I presume that from now on EOTS stock has nothing to do with Maelstrom, as both are now separate limited companies.


As for the poor cs I will again reiterate points made earlier. If the phone lines are down and IF they are having trouble processing payments and IF they have a backlog of orders going out and IF they cannot find stock to make up orders then there should be a system in place to contact their customers to notify them of delays.

They can get a sales email out to their customer list pdq, 3 over the same amount of days almost. they can send to all a notification of delay.

People who have paid for their orders can get recourse for reimbursement, Maelstrom not answering their phones is not the end of the world. Contact Paypal and your card providers IF you have not received your goods.

If you are truly panicked by what seems to be happening then claim a refund anyway, again, from your card service provider or paypal.

Ok, so my point that it may be beneficial for both parties if customers held off panic cancelling still stands?

Once again, I must state I completely understand those that are getting jumpy, but just consider if you are chasing them for a refund that your actions and those of others that are doing likewise may be the very thing that actually causes them to fold and you to lose your cash. If (and I DO realise it's a big if!) you can hold your nerve you may get your goods and allow Maelstrom to keep going.

Not saying anyone should, just trying to add to the discussion.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

But assuming it does.

1) People were stating that it was impossible that this was a phone fault. I was stating it quite possibly can be.
2) It is more than possible for a fault to affect a voice line and not the internet connection.
3) I wasn't disparaging other people's issues just because I was unaffected. I merely wished to illustrate that there is a lot of conclusion jumping and assumption making in this thread.

Fact is they are obviously under a lot of pressure and the amount of incoming contact is probably overwhelming. Their approach is t what I would do, but I don't have their issues!

Pretty much this.

Too many people are assuming Maelstrom have run off with their money to start a new life in the Cayman Islands or something. Since when have they ever acted like this? They have built up a lot of trust over the years and are the genuine article, unlike say Three Stage Studios and the like. From what I've seen in the past, such as with the end of the GW embargo last year, where they were literally up to their armpits in boxes and couldn't keep up, coupled with more GW shenanigans turning people to Warmahordes, of which their stock levels have never truly recovered.

They're victims of their own success and need more backstock. A good place to put this would be, I dunno, a new warehouse perhaps?

Grim' They cannot buy backstock if they are liqudating old stock at a massive discount. If they have a new warehouse for Maelstrom (EOTS wouldn't need it btw) they do not have enough cash to fill it.

 Ravenblade666 wrote:

 laffe wrote:

Dingleson wrote:
Wish I had not pre-ordered £70 worth of X-wing in August

I pre-ordered it in 2011 when Maelstrom first put it up on their shop. I thought about cancelling the order when FFG delayed it for a year but I figured I could wait. I wish I had cancelled it... I have now bought it from Spirit Games instead.

It seems that MG never even got it in stock at all.

This also happened to me sadly :(, brought from Wayland and Firestorm both where excellent with their communication and speed of delivery, not the case with Maelstrom sadly.

The worst wasn't the money -- I'm out of 25 quid, I can live with that -- but the feeling of preordering a game, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting... and more waiting... and then when it's finally launched you realise it's starting to turn up in every shop from your FLGS to other internet retailers, but not the one you ordered from. And they don't even say a word about it!

it was not Azrael!
It was directed Grimtuff's facepalm post.

As for not reading too well. It was composed on my mobile. So I thought I did rather well considering I was on a moving train with many distractions etc!
(although I'm not sure the relevance of how well it reads is to the points being made)



I think many peoples problem is this:

If Maelstrom could be bothered to communicate and actually refute all the rumour mongering I think many people including myself would feel MUCH happier!

I would be less jumpy and with some information less likely to want to cancel my order.

The fact I was lied to just before this all begun did not help my opinion either.



EDIT:I have to add, those people chasing for refunds: most of us cannot get a refund or even chase for one because all lines of communications are closed. ( a breach of distance selling law, as we are perfectly entitled to do so whatever the reason)
It is the lack of communication and the lack of replies that is creating the problem.

 Baragash wrote:

 laffe wrote:

Dingleson wrote:
Wish I had not pre-ordered £70 worth of X-wing in August

I pre-ordered it in 2011 when Maelstrom first put it up on their shop. I thought about cancelling the order when FFG delayed it for a year but I figured I could wait. I wish I had cancelled it... I have now bought it from Spirit Games instead.

It seems that MG never even got it in stock at all.

I don't understand..? Have you not got your money back from Maelstrom for it?

Nope. And they don't answer emails and the phone. And it's too much hassle to open a dispute with the credit card company for a transaction that's over a year old, just for £25.

And don't get me wrong, I happily placed that order and several other orders during the year since, because MG has delivered everything so far. If they go under it's sad, but I do feel pissed off for them not telling that they wouldn't get the game. Or if they DID get a couple of boxes in, I feel pissed because they obviously didn't fill the oldest orders first.

redeyed wrote:
it was not Azrael!
It was directed Grimtuff's facepalm post.

So you think they've ran off with yours and everyone else's money to go driving around in brand new Porsches and have swimming pools for their gardens.

No.

Granted they *should* put up a notice on their website or something to put people's minds at ease, but to think they're just trying to up sticks and run off with people's money is just asinine.

If they were answering emails still, then it it would be possible that there is a genuine fault with the phone line (or, I suppose, their telephone handset), but the fact remains that they are not. That makes it more likely that they are screening customers and/or ignoring the phoneline entirely.

Note I said "more likely" and not "100% definite" as there is room for them to genuinely be as pressured as they imply in their sale emails. I don't think there's much room, though. They may have built a solid rep over the years, but they're crapping all over it now.

 Grimtuff wrote:

redeyed wrote:
it was not Azrael!
It was directed Grimtuff's facepalm post.

So you think they've ran off with yours and everyone else's money to go driving around in brand new Porsches and have swimming pools for their gardens.

No.

Granted they *should* put up a notice on their website or something to put people's minds at ease, but to think they're just trying to up sticks and run off with people's money is just asinine.

No I wouldnt go that far.

But what I do think they are doing, is making it as difficult for people to cancel and get in touch as possible.

I think its more likely a delaying tactic because they had so many people cancelling before due to problems/delays.

 Graf Hagin wrote:
If they were answering emails still, then it it would be possible that there is a genuine fault with the phone line (or, I suppose, their telephone handset), but the fact remains that they are not. That makes it more likely that they are screening customers and/or ignoring the phoneline entirely.

Note I said "more likely" and not "100% definite" as there is room for them to genuinely be as pressured as they imply in their sale emails. I don't think there's much room, though. They may have built a solid rep over the years, but they're crapping all over it now.

Of course they're screening emails. Do you really think they're going to dedicate a person's entire shift to simply answering the many hundreds of "WARRS ME TOY SOLDJARS!" emails. That's why most companies have the auto update things on your order (some even mention on their site to not contact them about your order, as it's usually covered by their FAQ). In the nicest possible way, you're just wasting their time and holding them up from picking and packing orders by asking the same question over and over again.

Don't get me wrong, I sympathise with people who haven't got their orders, but this fething witch hunt over them is just getting preposterous.

I sent e-mail last week and asked about my order's status and expressed my worries about their financial situation.

I received this e-mail (copy paste) in the same day:

"Hi

I'm very sorry for the delay you have are having with us, due to the discount voucher we are offering we are experiencing a large amount of orders and emails, we are working through this as quick as we can and will respond to every email we receive.

Thanks for your continued support

Cheers

Maelstrom Games"

*sanity prevails*

Not a major point, but I had the dispatch email for the small order I made to use up my MoneyBack. Will confirm when it arrives - or, at least, when Royal Mail put the usual red card through the door to say they failed to deliver it.

redeyed wrote:
EDIT:I have to add, those people chasing for refunds: most of us cannot get a refund or even chase for one because all lines of communications are closed. ( a breach of distance selling law, as we are perfectly entitled to do so whatever the reason)
It is the lack of communication and the lack of replies that is creating the problem.

I think you'd have trouble making that case given you could send them a letter + recorded delivery + get proof of postage, so all lines of communication aren't closed.

What I'd be interested in would be whether any pre-orders went up (eg the new CSM stuff which I don't believe has ever been in stock) when Maelstrom already knew they were blocked from getting it. Depending on the circumstances that could be fraud.

mmm this is true however it would definately have to be recorded or they could just deny they recieved it. (even with a proof of postage)
Also such a big inconvinience/cost when one should be able to do it online/via phone!

After popping into my local bank recently/getting some advice. The option I am going to take is a chargeback.


Ideally I would just like to know when I will be recieving my stuff.

(little history on my situation, ordered £100 worth of stuff a week and a half ago. I contacted them shortly after to confirm as I was concerned. They told me it would go out the next day/was all in stock. Obviously it was a lie as I am still waiting and they refuse all communications)

Zumppa wrote:
I sent e-mail last week and asked about my order's status and expressed my worries about their financial situation.

I received this e-mail (copy paste) in the same day:

"Hi

I'm very sorry for the delay you have are having with us, due to the discount voucher we are offering we are experiencing a large amount of orders and emails, we are working through this as quick as we can and will respond to every email we receive.

Thanks for your continued support

Cheers

Maelstrom Games"

Wow you're very lucky there! Been emailing them for over two weeks, to no reply. Phoning daily too, no reply!

OK I've logged mine through paypal

My reasons....

Communication - none
Sales - far too many, far too big and latest closure date of sale (22nd)
Faith - lacking

Also I get £50 a month hobby money - I work 160 hours a month - I am not allowing a months work to vanish

This makes me part of the problem, I know. BUT how can I place any trust in a company that is IMHO circleing the drain and about to pull the plug

The dropping of paypal is a bad sign and this last dicount....I would feel dirty cashing in my cashback at this point so I have some honour and I hope it comes back fighting strong but I'm not working a month for nothing

Zumppa wrote:
"Hi

I'm very sorry for the delay you have are having with us, due to the discount voucher we are offering we are experiencing a large amount of orders and emails, we are working through this as quick as we can and will respond to every email we receive.

Thanks for your continued support

Cheers

Maelstrom Games"

Haha, I got two mails from Wayland yesterday more or less citing the same reasons for having my order in limbo for seventeen days now.