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 AlexHolker wrote:

 SoulDrinker wrote:
I think the only way back will be for someone to take over the Maelstrom Games part of the company and basically start again with the framework in place.

Or for them to fulfil all their obligations and thus prove this to be nothing more than a bank run.

Maelstrom have created their own issues here.

They have persistently had sales to move stock. No sooner is the sale deal taken up by some customers then they move onto the next sale, where customers from the ones previous are left without stock because Maelstrom feel that they should treat customers like trash and treat holding stock /fulfilling orders as the exception rather than the rule.

To be cost effective sales have to come and go, very quickly, product needs to be isolated then picked an shipped with the minimum of fuss. Maelstrom, it appears cannot even do this most basic of tasks and I think this mysterious warehouse will still cause them problems.

On the subject of this warehouse. EOTS looks to be independent of Maelstrom, so they will not need to utilize warehouse space AND they are setting themselves up for internet mail order in a greater capacity (they have just added battlefront product to their web store). Why have Maelstrom and EOTS provide the same service? It doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense unless you look at Maelstroms financials (spoiler: They can't even pay for a pot of paint).

Maelstrom even say they are in trouble in the marketing emails for their sales. They need money from the sale to pay for stock!!!!!! (Supposedly Malestrom are too big to fail eh?)

Yeah this is a run except Maelstrom are exacerbating it by holding out their empty turned outside pockets.

And yet, we have all fallen for the scam, time and time again, because of the insane discounts, I cannot believe that some posters are even shrugging shoulders about their financial losses £30 here £100 there. If I were a director at Maelstrom I would be laughing my ass off.
(Spolier again: Maelstrom s directors siphon off any profits into their own pockets, as well as taking wages, the money doesn't get rolled back into the company).

I read all 22 pages of this thread yesterday. Man, what a cluster feth!

I've had good success with FrontLineGaming and TheWarStore, so I'll continue to use them.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

(Spolier again: Maelstrom s directors siphon off any profits into their own pockets, as well as taking wages, the money doesn't get rolled back into the company).

Unless you have evidence of that, that could be seen as libel....

It has been a feature of their past few financials. profits(and possibly excess cash) are siphoned off leading to a cash balance of 0, or seem such financial reconciliation term.

The money goes to directors own accounts.

Yeah.
That's a standard practice for a limited liability company. The tax on an annual dividend is lower than income tax, so the directors normally take a living wage and then a big pay day once a year. Assuming there's money to be taken.

Nothing to see here.

Oh, and I'm the director of my own limited company btw.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
It has been a feature of their past few financials. profits(and possibly excess cash) are siphoned off leading to a cash balance of 0, or seem such financial reconciliation term.

The money goes to directors own accounts.

Um, what financials? Unless I've missed something Maelstrom is not a publicly traded company and thus we have no public access to any such financials.

 azreal13 wrote:
Yeah.
That's a standard practice for a limited liability company. The tax on an annual dividend is lower than income tax, so the directors normally take a living wage and then a big pay day once a year. Assuming there's money to be taken.

Nothing to see here.

Oh, and I'm the director of my own limited company btw.

Slaps head. yep, had the blinkers on for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
It has been a feature of their past few financials. profits(and possibly excess cash) are siphoned off leading to a cash balance of 0, or seem such financial reconciliation term.

The money goes to directors own accounts.

Um, what financials? Unless I've missed something Maelstrom is not a publicly traded company and thus we have no public access to any such financials.

You can view basic accounts online just look up mMelstrom as a limited company.

if you have access or know someone who does or works for a company who as access to credit reports and financial statements then you can see a very detailed view. thumbsup:

You can get information about anything for a pretty nominal fee too.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
It has been a feature of their past few financials. profits(and possibly excess cash) are siphoned off leading to a cash balance of 0, or seem such financial reconciliation term.

The money goes to directors own accounts.

Um, what financials? Unless I've missed something Maelstrom is not a publicly traded company and thus we have no public access to any such financials.

You can view basic accounts online just look up mMelstrom as a limited company.

if you have access or know someone who does or works for a company who as access to credit reports and financial statements then you can see a very detailed view. thumbsup:

You can get information about anything for a pretty nominal fee too.

I see. May have to have a nose around. Not that I'll understand much of it.

I did post up links to Financials like that numerous times in this thread and others, that's what i based much of my predictions on.

It's the 1st port of call if someone says a business is looking ropey. It's exactly what I do with investments for Stocks and Shares, you do all your research online from open source information there is literally mountains of information out there. When you are investing you do your homework, as otherwise you are gambling with your money. It's just 99.9% of the population walk around blinkered, in blissful ignorance, or believe in stupid conspiracy theories.

A link I put up on page 14 on this long thread.

https://www.duedil.com/company/04724863/maelstrom-games-limited/financials

It's worth a look and you guys are bright you can see what this means even with only a fundamental understanding of business.

https://www.duedil.com/company/06690851/wayland-games-limited

CainTheHunter wrote:
While not willing to bring up the "country-specific issues" but there certainly appears to be tendency that Britons are getting priority in their orders being packed and shipped out.

I must say that I noticed that too. It makes sense, as natives have more means to create troubles for them. A foreigner can appeal to PayPal or his bank and if those wont work he will probably consider the case closed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

You might be right but this is no way to talk to a customer. My two cents...

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

thestranger wrote:You might be right but this is no way to talk to a customer. My two cents...

Management are within their rights to refuse service at their discretion.

This guy was pretty discourteous, I think this is a measured and polite response.

 azreal13 wrote:

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

thestranger wrote:You might be right but this is no way to talk to a customer. My two cents...

Management are within their rights to refuse service at their discretion.

This guy was pretty discourteous, I think this is a measured and polite response.

There is a saying. Customers are always right. Are they? Off course not. But it means that its a bad marketing call to argue with a customer. The man probably is right, but that kind of response strikes bad to future customers. Like me. In commerce and especially e-commerce at least 60% of the job is a matter of impressions.

 The Stranger wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

thestranger wrote:You might be right but this is no way to talk to a customer. My two cents...

Management are within their rights to refuse service at their discretion.

This guy was pretty discourteous, I think this is a measured and polite response.

There is a saying. Customers are always right. Are they? Off course not. But it means that its a bad marketing call to argue with a customer. The man probably is right, but that kind of response strikes bad to future customers. Like me. In commerce and especially e-commerce at least 60% of the job is a matter of impressions.

Couldn't disagree more.

We have witnessed both sides of the conversation in this thread. Rich has been courteous, but has stood his ground and justified his points. The other guy has just thrown attitude about and not really been willing to enter into a dialogue.

The customer in my experience is seldom right, but that aside, nobody has reason to be throwing attitude around like that, and I respect somebody who is willing to say 'I'm not willing to accept your behaviour for the sake of your business'

 The Stranger wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

thestranger wrote:You might be right but this is no way to talk to a customer. My two cents...

Management are within their rights to refuse service at their discretion.

This guy was pretty discourteous, I think this is a measured and polite response.

There is a saying. Customers are always right. Are they? Off course not. But it means that its a bad marketing call to argue with a customer. The man probably is right, but that kind of response strikes bad to future customers. Like me. In commerce and especially e-commerce at least 60% of the job is a matter of impressions.

Let alone on a public forum, I will not buy form them now. There are things you don't do as a company, this should of been at the least a PM only and not post on the forum. Right or wrong dose not matter, acting like a professional would have been better then a hurt kid, calling him out.

The Wayland stuff is a tangent better suited to being discussed in the Wayland thread, but I actually respect them more now. I'm all for customer service and customer's rights, but there's also self-respect and not taking any crap hurled at you for the sake of some others' potential hurt feelings. Rish has shown plenty of times especially in the Wayland thread that he gives a measured, reasonable and polite response to customer queries, gripes and concerns.

 scipio.au wrote:
The Wayland stuff is a tangent better suited to being discussed in the Wayland thread, but I actually respect them more now. I'm all for customer service and customer's rights, but there's also self-respect and not taking any crap hurled at you for the sake of some others' potential hurt feelings. Rish has shown plenty of times especially in the Wayland thread that he gives a measured, reasonable and polite response to customer queries, gripes and concerns.

I did throw attitude around. That's because this is not the first time Wayland has disappointed me.

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

I am not "wrong." Green light means "High Availability: If in stock should ship in 1-5 working days, if not then 3-9." It's now business day 11 or 12, and the order shows as processing. What I find disappointing is that he has time to come on the forum and call me out, but not to process my refund and cancel my order as I requested.

I have started a thread with my side of the story. Apologies if my attitude upset anyone. I was angry and venting.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484557.page

Vent away, it is much better to vent about poor service on an Internet forum than to go out and take your frustrations on something or someone else.

Also it serves a purpose to warn other customers, often mistakes can be rectified if well handled.

I had a John Lewis Coffee Machine stop working on me, after 18months, took it to them. They said "fine we will replace it one for one, although it has gone up in price slightly do you mind paying the difference" It was £5 on a £150 Coffee machine. I walked away very happy with a New Machine pleased with the exceptional level of customer service and would recommend to others buying Electricals from John Lewis due to the price but more importantly the exceptional Guarantees, A Samsung SMART TV comes with a 5 Year Guarantee for free!

So in answer to those who don't believe "the Customer is always right", the negative PR from bad customer relations is far more damaging. So it is less a cost benefit and more a damage limitation/ reputational / integrity issue and what price can you put on Integrity and your reputation?

Something interesting from TTGN.

Taban Miniatures has decided to set up a free shipping policy to the following countries:
USA, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand

We took this decision after the logistical adjustments of our main UK partner .
Our business relationship with this trader has been great for years and remains the same.

However, they have temporary stopped re-supplying any products and are clearing their stock until they move to a new warehouse.
At the moment 98% of our range is unavailable on their web-store. We don’t want the many (many) Eden players that got supplied so far to be left over… and stop our game !

Obviously talking about Maelstrom. So why are maelstrom not saying this themselves? that the warehouse move is the reason they are clearing their stocks?

Mind boggling.

The supposed warehouse moving has been their excuse for some months now. Bot nobody is buying that s**t now. So they stopped saying it.

It will be interesting to see what's going to happen to Maelstrom now, they have fallen a long, long way in my eyes, long before they had these sales shenanigans. Though I think they always were a bit of a victim of their own success.

 The Stranger wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:
While not willing to bring up the "country-specific issues" but there certainly appears to be tendency that Britons are getting priority in their orders being packed and shipped out.

I must say that I noticed that too. It makes sense, as natives have more means to create troubles for them. A foreigner can appeal to PayPal or his bank and if those wont work he will probably consider the case closed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rich1231 wrote:


Can you let me know your order number please.

You are wrong and I would like to cancel your order. I don't wish you to be a customer of ours.

You might be right but this is no way to talk to a customer. My two cents...

Well, the original poster did write this in his first post:

Frankly I'd rather get all my money back and just order from the manufacturer (Spartan); at least they answer their email.

So he DID start this debate (in this thread) and finally Wayland has decided to do as he wish. What's the problem? It's a bit like the "You're fired!" -"No, I quit!" syndrome.
For whatever it's worth, why shouldn't Wayland respond here? It they didn't it would look as if they ignored him.

 BrookM wrote:
It will be interesting to see what's going to happen to Maelstrom now, they have fallen a long, long way in my eyes, long before they had these sales shenanigans. Though I think they always were a bit of a victim of their own success.

If Maelstrom had come out on their site and said, look, having these sales is good for you the customer, the trade off is that some orders may be delayed. We are sorry for the inconvenience blah blah blah. No one would have batted an eyelid when their orders were late.

I did wonder if a lot of the tales of lateness are hyperbole and take into consideration that some posters seem to have made this thread their first point of call rather than dealing with MG directly. RoW customers can't be wrong though can they?

Reading Taban Miniatures announcement might have made me think again, had Maelstrom been more proactive with announcing their own statements on such subjects as stock clearances and warehouse moves. Would their customers have been spooked so much?

As to their sales. Yeah I want to take advantage of their deals as much as the next man and I guess being in the UK I get preference on shipping. especially free shipping. But are MG really going to provide top notch service to overseas customers when their profits, already reduced by sales are eaten into by overseas postage and packaging? I fi remember correctly the rel cost to a SME of sending a letter is around £1.60 and that is just for a plain old letter or invoice or bill and within the UK.

ROW Postage was covered largely by the 20% VAT that they (and other, similar sites) are not required to pay for orders outside the UK. It's effectively the same as the many places that aren't VAT-registered who say "add 20% for shipping."

As for late sale orders, that was always part and parcel of the system anyway. Orders during sale times almost always took longer to ship (often by weeks). It was never an issue for internet crying on my part at least. I always considered it the "price" of 18% off UKRRP.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
It will be interesting to see what's going to happen to Maelstrom now, they have fallen a long, long way in my eyes, long before they had these sales shenanigans. Though I think they always were a bit of a victim of their own success.

If Maelstrom had come out on their site and said, look, having these sales is good for you the customer, the trade off is that some orders may be delayed. We are sorry for the inconvenience blah blah blah. No one would have batted an eyelid when their orders were late.

Or if they'd just paused orders on items not in stock from the beginning. I would've ordered just as much, but different items that I didn't need/want ASAP.

Even if they manage to score enough money for the remaining orders, Is it possible that the supplier refuses to sell their goods, even for cash, before Maelstrom pays off a significant portion of their debt?

another update.


So they split my order/posted out the majority recently.

Arrived this morning which makes me feel relieved.

Still waiting on a couple of things but at least I have most of it now.


What I dont understand is why they closed all lines of communication, if they had simply given some reassurance or kept people updated we wouldnt all be freaking out right now.

No news from my side. Still no answer from e-mails or even an acknowledgement that my order was cancelled as I have requested multiple times.

 Inanimate wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
It will be interesting to see what's going to happen to Maelstrom now, they have fallen a long, long way in my eyes, long before they had these sales shenanigans. Though I think they always were a bit of a victim of their own success.

If Maelstrom had come out on their site and said, look, having these sales is good for you the customer, the trade off is that some orders may be delayed. We are sorry for the inconvenience blah blah blah. No one would have batted an eyelid when their orders were late.

Or if they'd just paused orders on items not in stock from the beginning. I would've ordered just as much, but different items that I didn't need/want ASAP.

Even if they manage to score enough money for the remaining orders, Is it possible that the supplier refuses to sell their goods, even for cash, before Maelstrom pays off a significant portion of their debt?

Nope, for items not in stock or pre orders money should not be taken until they are in stock,

MarkyMark wrote:

 Inanimate wrote:


Nope, for items not in stock or pre orders money should not be taken until they are in stock,

But how else is a warehouseless Maelstrom to pay for its cash and carry service with its suppliers?

I received two packs yesterday. Two items (out of six) are missing, i think there was some confusion on their side, so i hope they re-establish the communication lines at some point.

Another order i made this weekend has been dispatched.

So overall, they keep working and ship quite fast (even given the fact that i live on the other side of the channel).

Problems remain with the items on backorder from the supplier, i dont think we will see them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and by the way, i back rich1231 100% on his position. It is not because you are a CUSTOMER that you should not behave like a normal person. Wayland games has gained one customer on this one (ok, one from this mudhole called Belgium, i know...)

captain tanuki wrote:
I received two packs yesterday. Two items (out of six) are missing, i think there was some confusion on their side, so i hope they re-establish the communication lines at some point.

Argh, that must suck, and I'm hoping it doesn't happen to my most recent order. I don't relish the prospect of being in communications limbo and not knowing when/if I'll receive proper replacements.

The order I placed at the start of the sale had some problems with it, but they were still answering emails at that point, and it was quickly rectified. In fact, I came out ahead of the game, since I got to keep the model they mistakenly sent me (and then they ended up sending two copies of the proper model I'd ordered, for some reason).