Maelstrom Games taking the biscuit?

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**Jayce_The_Ace**

I received the majority part of a split order today for Army Painter Paints. Unfortunately 2 of the paints (Alien Purple & Dragon Red) are missing.

I've contacted them about this via their 'contact us' section, but I'm not holding my breath on getting a response.

**captain tanuki**

If i look at my last package, the value of the missing items is 75% of the order (although everything is in stock)

i really hope a second package will show up...

**frozenwastes**

LuciusAR wrote:Oh well it looks like I'll be ordering from Wayland or Firestorm from now on.

For Flames of War, The Troll Trader is also a good source. Their stock levels are rock solid (unlike Wayland

**Twinky**

I post here my situation with Maelstrom Games : I did a (small, 30€) paypal order 6 weeks ago for hobby furnitures.

Recently, seeing my order still "in processing", I tried to contact MG by email without success.

Being close to the 45 days limit for a paypal complaint, I then chose to open a dispute (In the meantime I discovered, looking at various forums, that their paypal account is most likely empty and/or closed). This was a few days ago.

Today, my order has been canceled (as requested in my dispute), but no refund has been issued yet.

I am glad that my order was kept small (and I feel sorry for the ones who spent several hundreds of € to MG).

I just sent them another email expressely asking for an immediate refund. Although I have few hopes this will eventually be happily solved, I'll keep updated the status of my dispute here.

**Starweaver**

Well, i to have opened disputes for what i had left standing open. One order is to old (from juli) the rest is now being processed, lets hope for the best.
Over the passed two weeks i tried to contact maelstrom through the contact form but it seems like they've simply stopped responding at all.

Edit:
it seems that in response to the claim maelstrom has cancelled the orders, however, no money has been returned yet, that might be on paypals side still though so i'll wait and see what happens.

**mateldar**

the problem is that for some reasons they are only completing some orders, and ignoring the rest, I have alost 100 pounds in orders and I don´t like to make all the cancelation proscess. but not having news from them is something that is boring me at all...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Starweaver wrote:
Well, i to have opened disputes for what i had left standing open. One order is to old (from juli) the rest is now being processed, lets hope for the best.
Over the passed two weeks i tried to contact maelstrom through the contact form but it seems like they've simply stopped responding at all.

the one of Juy, yo did it by paypal or by your CC???

**Starweaver**

Paypal, i do not have a cc :(

**chaos45**

If you havent initiated a charge back and used paypal I would initiate a dispute before you get to 45 days.

Maelstrom hasnt responded to my emails in about a month and never shipped anything from my order.

I initiated a dispute via paypal, maelstrom cancelled my order but still no money back nor have they responded to the dispute.

It seems they are just trying to wait things out and keep/take as much money as possible before the end.....its really what it looks like at this point.

**The Stranger**

I have a question. What happens if you have won the claim through Paypal, but Maelstrom has emptied the connected bankaccount so there can be no charge back?
I mean if they have burnt the bridges with major suppliers, I dont think that they would care much about Paypal. Is there any other way for Paypal to claim money back?

**Twinky**

Well you're screwed (and I am also)...

As paypal is not more available at payment stage in their website, I assume that we lost our money...

**The Stranger**

Twinky wrote:
Well you're screwed (and I am also)...

As paypal is not more available at payment stage in their website, I assume that we lost our money...

Paypal's notice said to wait about 7 working days. Thats next Wednesday. After that I ll contact the bank. The problem is that I shop through a visa cashcard not credit card. Generally Im against credit cards and credit whatsoever.

**Starweaver**

Well for what it's worth i know that paypal can reclaim money even if it exceeds the amount that is in the bank account tied to the paypal account, the question though is if it will happen here, looks like those who haven't yet received refunds will not get any :(

**captain tanuki**

I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

**Marzillius**

Well, I am pretty worried right here. I made an order of about 200£ from them, and all of my attempts to contact them has failed. They do not answer e-mails, and I do not get any answer when I call them (I get a busy signal, or an answering machine saying that the number is not operational when I call with my mobile phone). I did not pay via Paypal, but through a MasterCard cashcard.

I have no idea how to proceed. I live in Sweden btw.

**PhantomViper**

Marzillius wrote:
Well, I am pretty worried right here. I made an order of about 200£ from them, and all of my attempts to contact them has failed. They do not answer e-mails, and I do not get any answer when I call them (I get a busy signal, or an answering machine saying that the number is not operational when I call with my mobile phone). I did not pay via Paypal, but through a MasterCard cashcard.

I have no idea how to proceed. I live in Sweden btw.

Call your bank and explain the situation to them?

Some banks have insurance even on their cashcard cards, you may get your money back that way.

**Marzillius**

PhantomViper wrote:
Marzillius wrote:
Well, I am pretty worried right here. I made an order of about 200£ from them, and all of my attempts to contact them has failed. They do not answer e-mails, and I do not get any answer when I call them (I get a busy signal, or an answering machine saying that the number is not operational when I call with my mobile phone). I did not pay via Paypal, but through a MasterCard cashcard.

I have no idea how to proceed. I live in Sweden btw.

Call your bank and explain the situation to them?

Some banks have insurance even on their cashcard cards, you may get your money back that way.

I just called the bank and signed a reclaim-thingy (do not really know the word in english, but it means getting the money back). Hopefully I should get the money from the bank in a few weeks.

Just sad really, I couldn't play in 3 tournaments because my Chaos codex didn't arrive in time.

**Twinky**

captain tanuki wrote:
I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Well I didn't look at the recent user's agreement of paypal, but a few years ago, to make a refund, paypal made transfer from one paypal account (the abuser) to another paypal account (the abused), never from credit cards, and never from their own money.

It looks obvious to me (at least in my country) : only government agencies or justice can get money directly from your bank account, without your consent. Which means that if they dropped their paypal account to 0, then paypal can not refund us...

**Starweaver**

captain tanuki wrote:
I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Actually, paypal states on their own site under buyer protection that you will get your money back if there's sufficient funds in the seller's account

**chaos45**

Well so far in over 5 years of using paypal I have only had to reclaim money once, long ago.

In that case it was before many of the policies they have now and due to time and lies from the seller I ended up using my credit card company to get the money back.

Luckily I used a credit card this time as well as I was worried their might be an issue. So if paypal refuses I will resort to my credit card company to get the money back. Esp as I contested within paypals 45 days.

The purpose of using paypal is so you as the buyer have security in your purchases, otherwise its a pointless costly service. So they shouldnt refuse as long as its in the 45 day timeline.

**brettz123**

chaos45 wrote:
paypal is so you as the buyer have security in your purchases, otherwise its a pointless costly service. So they shouldnt refuse as long as its in the 45 day timeline.

I'm sorry but this just isn't true. About two years ago I had to put in a claim that while I won the claim I got no money back because Paypal had no way to get money from the seller. It was only $20 so not really a huge deal but unless they have changed things you aren't guaranteed to get your money back. The purpose of Paypal is ease of use and the ability to buy things over the Internet without using a credit card.

**chaos45**

Right off the paypal site, only stipulation is must be done within 45 days:

Purchase Protection
If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

**Nounoursdub**

Hello, I 'm new on this forum. But i have the same problem with maelstrom games

I'm client from maelstrom games since a lot of years and i live in Belgium.
During these years, i have spent a lot of money to maelstrom without any problems. But

This month i have ordered a lot with their fantastic promotion. Several orders and all the items were in stock. but hey don't send anything.
I have also two order since august they don't send it.
Generally, i'm very patient. but now i'm very not satisfy with maelstrom.
Last week they send a order with 3 napoleon at war items.(normally in stock)..they have split the order (somme items are not in stock)..but i have received anything about these order.

This week, they send me a second order (all the items was normally in this package)....I have received it today and i was very surprise. there was only a minimum part of my orders. about 20% of my order.
The 5 napoleon at war items was not in the package and the napoleon at war bases (actually in stock???) was not either in the package.

I desesperate now to received my other orders and the missing items. I have send a protestation email and now i have contest all the transaction to paypal....

I 'll now try to contest the other transaction to my visa card company.

I'have lost confidence to maelstrom games.... They are thieves. If i m not refund i'll lost more hundred of GBpounds.

**maxxev**

chaos45 wrote:
Right off the paypal site, only stipulation is must be done within 45 days:

Purchase Protection
If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

I believe the policies plus what paypal can actually do are different in every country.

Good luck people, I have only one item outstanding from Maelstrom, i'm going to keep my fingers crossed, as I doubt a paypal claim will get me anywhere at this stage.

**Alkasyn**

Twinky wrote:
captain tanuki wrote:
I think you are too pessimistic. Paypal will refund, no matter if there is money or not on MG's account. It is the same as a credit card company.

Well I didn't look at the recent user's agreement of paypal, but a few years ago, to make a refund, paypal made transfer from one paypal account (the abuser) to another paypal account (the abused), never from credit cards, and never from their own money.

It looks obvious to me (at least in my country) : only government agencies or justice can get money directly from your bank account, without your consent. Which means that if they dropped their paypal account to 0, then paypal can not refund us...

chaos45 wrote:
Right off the paypal site, only stipulation is must be done within 45 days:

Purchase Protection
If an eligible item that you’ve purchased online doesn’t arrive, or doesn’t match the seller’s description, our Purchase Protection will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item plus shipping costs.

Indeed, if you have done everything right, Paypal should reimburse you the lost money, even if that means they lose money themselves.

**devilution**

Nounoursdub wrote:
Hello, I 'm new on this forum. But i have the same problem with maelstrom games
I'm client from maelstrom games since a lot of years and i live in Belgium.
During these years, i have spent a lot of money to maelstrom without any problems. But

This month i have ordered a lot with their fantastic promotion. Several orders and all the items were in stock. but hey don't send anything.
I have also two order since august they don't send it.
Generally, i'm very patient. but now i'm very not satisfy with maelstrom.
Last week they send a order with 3 napoleon at war items.(normally in stock)..they have split the order (somme items are not in stock)..but i have received anything about these order.

This week, they send me a second order (all the items was normally in this package)....I have received it today and i was very surprise. there was only a minimum part of my orders. about 20% of my order.
The 5 napoleon at war items was not in the package and the napoleon at war bases (actually in stock???) was not either in the package.

I desesperate now to received my other orders and the missing items. I have send a protestation email and now i have contest all the transaction to paypal....

I 'll now try to contest the other transaction to my visa card company.

I'have lost confidence to maelstrom games.... They are thieves. If i m not refund i'll lost more hundred of GBpounds.

Let's organise a trip to the store

**ttsgosadow**

I also have items 'processing' as an order at Maelstrom. Paypal could tell me that I was too late getting a refund (more then 45 days). On advice from the Wyrd thread (which I started), I contacted the Dutch Customer Centre. For the Dutchies I will post the reply I got here.

I am also planning to try and get the money back through my bank. Had contact with Paypal about this, as I paid through Paypal meaning the payment from my bank is made to Paypal. The question I asked regarding this - whether I would just rip of Paypal this way - got me a weird answer. Not a direct answer to my question, but an explanation that if I got the money back through the bank they have to verify my bank account.

Just hoping this helps someone else out as well. Sorry for all the Dutch

The mail from ECCNL:

Geachte heer [...],

Hierbij bevestigen wij de goede ontvangst van uw e-mail d.d. 24 oktober jl. met betrekking tot uw klacht over de Engelse ondernemer Maelstrom Games. Naar aanleiding hiervan willen wij you berichten over het volgende.

Het Europees Consumenten Centrum (ECC) kan you als consument informeren over uw rechten en plichten in een lidstaat van de Europese Unie, Noorwegen en IJsland. Het ECC doet bovendien aan klachtbemiddeling als you zelf met de buitenlandse verkoper niet tot een oplossing bent gekomen. De medewerking van beide partijen blijft daarvoor onmisbaar. Het ECC advies en de bemiddelingsservice zijn kosteloos.

In uw e-mail geeft you aan dat you online een aankoop heeft gedaan bij de ondernemer Maelstrom Games op 23 augustus. U heeft echter een deel van uw bestelling ontvangen, maar een deel ter waarde van €45,51 heeft you nog niet ontvangen.

Volgens de Europese Richtlijn betreffende een koop op afstand, dient de ondernemer uw bestelling uiterlijk binnen 30 dagen aan you te leveren, vanaf de dag volgend op het plaatsten van uw bestelling. Indien uw bestelling niet naar toegezonden kan worden omdat het niet beschikbaar is, moet de koper daarover geïnformeerd worden en de mogelijkheid krijgen om de overgemaakte betaling zo snel mogelijk en in elk geval binnen 30 dagen terug te ontvangen. Aangezien you uw koop ruim twee maanden geleden besteld heeft, is de ondernemer te laat met het leveren van uw koop.

Voordat wij uw klacht nader kunnen bestuderen, verzoeken wij you vriendelijk het online klachtenformulier op onze website in te vullen (http://www.eccnl.eu/). Wij willen you vragen om aan het formulier alle relevante documenten als bijlagen toe te voegen.

Na ontvangst van het online klachtenformulier en de bijbehorende bijlagen, zullen wij uw klacht ter bestudering doorsturen naar het ECC te Engeland. Onze collega’s zullen uw rechtspositie vervolgens bestuderen en afhankelijk daarvan contact opnemen met de ondernemer. Het contact verloopt via ons, wij zullen you op de hoogte houden van de voortgang in de behandeling van uw klacht.

Tot slot willen wij you er op wijzen dat het ECC- Netwerk buitengerechtelijk is. Dit betekent dat wij buiten de rechter om proberen tot een oplossing te komen. Mocht de ondernemer niet mee willen werken aan de bemiddeling, dan kan het ECC hem hiertoe niet dwingen.
Met vriendelijke groet,

The mail from Paypal:

Beste [...],

Bedankt dat you contact heeft opgenomen met PayPal

Wanneer you uw bankl opdracht geeft om het geld terug te vorderen houdt you dan rekening met het volgende:

Omdat you de betaling via uw bank wilt terugboeken en, de betaling als ongeautoriseerd gaat melden, zal de toegang tot uw rekening beperkt worden. Voordat wij de toegang tot uw rekening dan kunnen herstellen, bevestigen wij graag dat you de eigenaar van de bankrekening bent. U dient ons dan te voorzien van de volgende documenten:

Een kopie van uw identiteitsbewijs (paspoort, rijbewijs)
Een bankrekeningafschrift waarop uw naam, adres en bankrekeningnummer volledig vermeld staan. Het afschrift dient een saldo en transacties te tonen. Overigens mag het document niet ouder dan 6 maanden zijn. Wij accepteren ook screenshots van uw online bankrekeningafschrift.
Indien you in de toekomst problemen ondervindt met transacties, dan kunt you hiervoor een geschil bij PayPal openen (mits uiteraard binnen de 45 dagen na transactie datum). Via een geschil kunt you met de verkoper communiceren om tot een oplossing te komen. Lukt dit niet, dan kunt you het geschil opwaarderen naar een claim. PayPal zal onderzoek verrichten en een oplossing bieden. Ook kunt you een transactie melden indien blijkt dat deze niet is geautoriseerd.

Om een klacht te openen, of een ongeautoriseerde transactie te melden, logt you in op uw rekening en klikt you op de subtab 'Klachtencentrum'. Klik vervolgens op 'Een probleem melden' en volg de stappen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

devilution wrote:

Let's organise a trip to the store

TBH, the reply from Paypal they couldn't help me did include a line that if enough people complained, they will investigate. So ganging up on MG might actually help there

**JamieisOOP**

So everyone is clear, even though MG have removed paypal as a payment option you will still get your money back if you open a dispute.

How do I know?
I just got mine back yesterday.

**FerrumIgnatus**

Maelstrom Games owe me £119 in orders, which I put in 15th of august, and those orders are still being processed.

Several attempts at contacting MG have resulted in "order will be shipped between 5-10 working days" or "order has bin split up due to some items out of stock."

**captain tanuki**

Thanks for the info, JamieisOOP.

**grefven**

It appears like several orders are dropping in, more and more by the day by reading on different forums. It's quite obvious that MG is having problems, that's a no-brainer. And even more obvious would the fact be that if MG communicated with their customers a lot of hating would settle... But, considering that people do get their orders, perhaps they should be given some more patience. The more people that scream for refund, the more problems MG will be getting into.

I've got an order for £250 with them that is "processing", so I am in there with the rest of you lot, so I ain't taking sides. It's just that if they are trying to sort this out (to the best of their ability) it will just cause more problems for us who got standing orders the more other orders that are cancelled and forced to refund.