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Well for me discount wargaming is dead for now . I got my credit card refund yesterday. 400 EUR back to account. For all I care they can do now what they want. I will buy at my LGS which offers about 10% when bought via Internet or full retail if bought in shop. Well since I like the shop I guess I will just buy at full retail. And they have almost all the items MG had. And than there is still the local GW retail store which I kinda like, too. And they are always happy if they find people who buy stuff and not only hang out there . Fortunately I work in a well paying job so that it doesn't really matter. It was nice as long as it lasted with MG but I guess going to the store and picking the stuff right off without any waiting will be worth the missed discount.

Also since GW streamlined GBP and EUR prices the discount is really only the 10-20% and not 40% like you sometimes had with currency advantages.

So basically lesson learned without further cost than time and a few letters to CC-Company.

From what I've heard some of the biggest independent suppliers will never deal with any of those companies again as they've been funded by the debt created at MG. You can't build companies with supplier's money default on their debt and then expect them to supply you again. I can't see any of the companies who are owed money starting supplying them again. Most people only get burnt once, it's common sense. They'll also have a lot of bad feeling to MG just like many customers will. People who lost money on their orders with MG aren't likely to buy from the new store - especially as there are lots of other stores to choose from.

I can certainly see suppliers refusing to deal with EotS or any offshoots until the Maelstrom debt has been cleared first, and even then wanting paid up front.

Yes they are separate legal entities, but they will be very aware of what's happened, and from the sounds of it some of them will have been pretty badly burnt.

As far as the customers are concerned, most will just jump ship to whatever online retailer has the stock they want at a comparable deal, and many may refuse to deal with any of Robs companies direct on moral grounds. I know if I need to deal with any of them for whatever reason I'll make sure to drop my missing Maelstrom orders into the conversations as much as I can and they only owe me about £5

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

Allot of supplers will be treating all the company's as one and the same. I know I would given the close relationship. Even if EoTS was paying its bills I would be very weary of any company Mr Lane is involved in, IF suppliers have been treated the way customers have. Trade credit at that size is all based on reputation and EoTS's reputation is trashed. If it was me they would all be on CWO if they have acted as we think they have.

I don't know the credit policy or the ins and outs of how suppliers have been treated but the MDs history dose most certainly have an effect. There are a couple of people I would never offer credit too again if I knew they had any involvement in the management of a business.

Lorien wrote:
Well for me discount wargaming is dead for now . I got my credit card refund yesterday. 400 EUR back to account. For all I care they can do now what they want. I will buy at my LGS which offers about 10% when bought via Internet or full retail if bought in shop. Well since I like the shop I guess I will just buy at full retail. And they have almost all the items MG had. And than there is still the local GW retail store which I kinda like, too. And they are always happy if they find people who buy stuff and not only hang out there . Fortunately I work in a well paying job so that it doesn't really matter. It was nice as long as it lasted with MG but I guess going to the store and picking the stuff right off without any waiting will be worth the missed discount.

Also since GW streamlined GBP and EUR prices the discount is really only the 10-20% and not 40% like you sometimes had with currency advantages.

So basically lesson learned without further cost than time and a few letters to CC-Company.

Dark Sphere is a good company, and now offering 25% of. Dealt with them for years, both mail order and local pick up. Always good comms and delivery.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Dark Sphere is a good company, and now offering 25% of. Dealt with them for years, both mail order and local pick up. Always good comms and delivery.

i would 100% second this. Dark sphere are a great company i used they for ages up until they stopped shipping GW items, never had an issue, so glad that as of this week they have reinstated shipping.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

This isn't a huge multinational corporation here, most of these suppliers or distributors should at the very least KNOW each other. My company has sold to the UK market for more than 2 decades and in furniture; which is a much larger industry than miniature hobbies I would presume. When a company goes bust, EVERYBODY hears about it and we all have rumours about what happened and what the guy behind it was thinking and whether it was a legitimate bankruptcy or one of those shady schemes. If you think that suppliers aren't going to look at who's behind the helm of EOTS, you're kidding yourself. No one wants to be stuck with that bad debt. Sure EOTS may be trading, but I never said nobody wouldn't trade with EOTS. It'll probably be cash up front terms or L/C based terms. Nobody is going to extend credit to EOTS for maybe a year or more, not unless they're feeling particularly adventurous.

Ok.. checked Eots, and thet had onlly 1 of my 3 incompleted orders from Maelstrom... no history, no moneyback....

could people who are getting their orders or are registered on the new EOTS site let us know what kind of orders you placed? Im waiting with every finger crossed that some GW stuff might arrive. just wondering if anyone else has recieved GW.

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

This isn't a huge multinational corporation here, most of these suppliers or distributors should at the very least KNOW each other. My company has sold to the UK market for more than 2 decades and in furniture; which is a much larger industry than miniature hobbies I would presume. When a company goes bust, EVERYBODY hears about it and we all have rumours about what happened and what the guy behind it was thinking and whether it was a legitimate bankruptcy or one of those shady schemes. If you think that suppliers aren't going to look at who's behind the helm of EOTS, you're kidding yourself. No one wants to be stuck with that bad debt. Sure EOTS may be trading, but I never said nobody wouldn't trade with EOTS. It'll probably be cash up front terms or L/C based terms. Nobody is going to extend credit to EOTS for maybe a year or more, not unless they're feeling particularly adventurous.

Again with someone not reading properly.

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Sining wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Mr. lanes ownership could be a stumbling block, but when trading recommences with certain suppliers, it will be down to EOTS/Maunsfields credit/trading history and not Rob Lanes'.

Suppliers aren't stupid. And it's not a huge industry. They know who's doing what. If anything, it'll probably be cash terms only for a few years.

Suppliers are not stupid. They will look at what EOTS are doing and not Rob Lane, So long as EOTS comply with T&C's EOTS will be open to negotiate better trade terms. Hell, EOTS is already trading, and has been building up its credit and payment history, That is what suppliers will go off,

It's a no brainer.

Allot of supplers will be treating all the company's as one and the same. I know I would given the close relationship. Even if EoTS was paying its bills I would be very weary of any company Mr Lane is involved in, IF suppliers have been treated the way customers have. Trade credit at that size is all based on reputation and EoTS's reputation is trashed. If it was me they would all be on CWO if they have acted as we think they have.

I don't know the credit policy or the ins and outs of how suppliers have been treated but the MDs history dose most certainly have an effect. There are a couple of people I would never offer credit too again if I knew they had any involvement in the management of a business.

I would assume that suppliers have been treated a tad differently to the consumers.

I agree with what you say there mr Burning - the bigger "companies" may very well continue to supply EOTS as it's just corporate policy / business practise, but in this industry a lot of stuff is quite personal, often suppliers are just one/two man family companies and it's those who will take this personally and not deal with EOTS if they've been burnt by MG. The person orientated companies are just going to supply all their other shops and hope EOTS suffer from the loss of trade. The thing to consider is really would the suppliers want to be associated with someone who has ripped off their customers? (the people who play their games) or will they take the moral route and disassociate themselves with everything surrounding MG.

As much as this hobby grows in the main part this is still very much a "people" orientated business with the exception of one or two big corporations. Personally I like it that way

chrisjuuuh wrote:
could people who are getting their orders or are registered on the new EOTS site let us know what kind of orders you placed? Im waiting with every finger crossed that some GW stuff might arrive. just wondering if anyone else has recieved GW.

I did not order GW from MG (I had a feeling that it would be a bad idea... turned out that anything would have been ;P). I have two items from discontinued Templar's Forge range (another product of MG/Banelegions etc chain) - they might not be showing up since the range itself is not supported by the EoTS. I wonder if they would appear at my door without any prior notice (MG site listed them being in hundreds in stock before closure). Another item it Forged in Battle German StuG IV platoon, which according to the EoTS is in their stock and was in stock with MG for MONTHS when I placed my order. One of the reasons why I ordered that StuG platoon was that I saw them on MG site for months in stock and was 100% they would be shipped within a week. Never happened.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.


I would assume that suppliers have been treated a tad differently to the consumers.

I don't really understand what your saying...

I guess they way you are talking you also work in credit... I think we are discussing the ins and outs of how trade credit works but your working from a premise that EoTS are being supplied still and I am working from a premise that they are not and this is causing a little confusion.

The whole reason this query about suppliers not supplying EoTS, and about EoTS's credit rating, started was because I pointed out that EoTS seem to have no stock. They have no GW, and what they do have from other companys they only have about 40% in stock and most of that they only have 1 of. It seems that suppliers have stopped supplying EoTS.

I wondered if they had been put on stop by suppliers. I was not saying that no one will ever give them any stock, just questioning if they too may be having problems, if not with money then with getting credit.

I think you are saying the same thing as me, that MG going under dose not mean that anything related to them will automatically be blacklisted, but that it CAN be if a company acts badly enough. Again I think we are saying the same thing from different starting points. I'm saying it can happen, your saying it dose not normally happen.

 HellFire Sin wrote:
Hi people
Im new to the forums but had to say something. Ive spent over a grand in the last moth or so Ive bought from Maelstrom gaming and from Wayland games twice each. Both times I was disgusted how bad they dealt with my order. It took weeks , no replies, hang up on me, didnt inform me and took my money and still messed up my order plus having things in stock on live stock levels then deciding they dont have it in dont tell me but take my money. Maelstrom took nearly £50 from a £120 order charged me and sent me half an order. Called them over 50-60 times nothing . Emailed them threatened legal action nothing. Dont have much choice these days so tried Rocket Hobbies which a mate suggested and so far on my 3rd order and theyve been great. Ive played for years but stopped for about 7 years get back into 40k and not had much luck with sellers up until Rocket Hobbies and would recommend to anyone great service too. Its a damn shame when people get shafted by companies that just dont care

Many thanks for your kind words.

Richard
Rocket Hobbies
www.rockethobbies.co.uk

errr i dont know if you noticed, but basically, EOTS has almost nothing in stock. So i assume they cannot order from suppliers. I am sure it will never make it.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.


I would assume that suppliers have been treated a tad differently to the consumers.

I don't really understand what your saying...

I guess they way you are talking you also work in credit... I think we are discussing the ins and outs of how trade credit works but your working from a premise that EoTS are being supplied still and I am working from a premise that they are not and this is causing a little confusion.

The whole reason this query about suppliers not supplying EoTS, and about EoTS's credit rating, started was because I pointed out that EoTS seem to have no stock. They have no GW, and what they do have from other companys they only have about 40% in stock and most of that they only have 1 of. It seems that suppliers have stopped supplying EoTS.

I wondered if they had been put on stop by suppliers. I was not saying that no one will ever give them any stock, just questioning if they too may be having problems, if not with money then with getting credit.

I think you are saying the same thing as me, that MG going under dose not mean that anything related to them will automatically be blacklisted, but that it CAN be if a company acts badly enough. Again I think we are saying the same thing from different starting points. I'm saying it can happen, your saying it dose not normally happen.

Yeah we are on the same page here, I think. I tend to waffle on a bit

I haven't worked in credit but work and circumstances have forced me to look at this from time to time.

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Yeah we are on the same page here, I think. I tend to waffle on a bit

I haven't worked in credit but work and circumstances have forced me to look at this from time to time.

Ye, we seem to be... No worries, I tend to waffle too (hence my long post about the morality of pheonixing on a war gaming site).

Well, you certainly seem to have a good grip on what your talking about.

 Mr. Burning wrote:


Again with someone not reading properly.

I have not said that suppliers would not look up the owners of EOTs, on the contrary, the major suppliers would have known about these shenanigans long ago. That EOTS are still being supplied speaks for itself.

Again. Suppliers can only look at EOTS trading history, with a nod towards Rob Lanes ownership of Maelstrom. IF EOTS credit is good there is little reson for major suppliersnot to trade on credit terms.

If it is poor, well, there are arrangements that can be made. Manufacturers and distributors want to supply. If EOTS have sucess at promoting and selling product then why not continue supply?

Smaller suppliers would probably have to tread carefully.

If you supply to trade and retail then you know that companies go bust and start up again all the time, you factor in the risks and see if it is worth your while. It doesn't matter if you a small or big, the same considerations apply.

It means businesses will take money when it's given to them. I have no idea why you think EOTS is trading on credit terms. Or why you think companies will not look at who owns the company they're trading with. They can be different legal entities but if people know it's the same person at the head, it's still going to color their perception.

IF EOTS credit is good? How do you define good? How long has this company been split off? Does Maelstromgames still owe the suppliers money? And judging from a post on Wyrd, I'd say they still do. Do you think that that same supplier is going to just trade with EOTS on credit terms because hey, it's a totally different legal entity? No, it's going to be cash terms for a while. How long do you define the trading history of the company as? If you're the same supplier from Wyrd, how long would you take to go from cash terms to credit terms for EOTS?

I supply to trade and retail and I KNOW that if someone owed me money and then went bankrupt and transferred everything to a new shell company, he would be trading on cash terms for a loooooong loooong time. Like 2 years minimum. Sure, I would lose some business but it's not like Maelstrom is the Ikea of wargaming and that everyone wants the companys business.

If you think that anyone is gonna give any credit to EoTS, you have obviously never worked in a credit department.

As a few companies are mentioned as replacements for Maelstrom, let me put forth my own company:
tabletopminiaturegames.eu

We have been trading for a bit longer than 4 months now. And we have a limited number of companies on the site at the moment (GW, PP,Avatars of War, Spartan Games. And the latter we do not carry in stock).
But we already have a group of loyal customers (mainly in the Netherlands, a few from Belgium and Germany. No idea of any are present on this forum).

Due to shipping costs, we are only interesting for UK wargamers when placing larger orders. That is untill the euro drops further in value....which is only a matter of time.
But we offer good shipping costs for the three countries mentioned above.
And as we grow, we will expand our range. Although we have no intention of stocking everything in the market and go bankrupt, because it does not sell.

Now to the actual topic:
As many others I have been following this and other threads for some time now.
A shame what happened. And it could have partially avoided IF Maelstrom had communicated.
But as far I can see, they made a number of bad business calls (own miniature line firmly on first place). The restriction of GW only dealing in EU and the rise of the pnd compared to the euro, finished them.
Too much overhead, too little income.
But Maelstrom should have handled it a lot better. And I can only hope that most of you get your money back or even better the items you ordered. But I have my doubts.

Guys... I think there has been a little confusion between never getting credit, not getting credit now and not getting any sales!

I think we can all agree that EoTS will be treated with allot of caution when making a decision over offering them credit or keeping there credit account open.

Personally, IF the company is in the position we think it is and I was an unpaid supplier (which I'm not), I would be sending them over to my very good debt recovery guys to, as they put it, "explain a few fact of life" to Mr Lane... I love my new recovery agents. They are so good and don't take any gak...

Was going to start a thread on this until I remembered this one.

My past experiences with Maelstrom (3 of them) have been good if a little slow but I placed an order for two Tervi kits on the 28th Aug and still no sign of them.
Managed to contact their customers service line around late Sept and they said the kits hadnt been dispatched by GW, so I said "no bother, I've lots of other stuff to work on" but I've called 5-6 times now in the last 3 weeks - no answer and emailed twice looking for an order update.
38 pages is a lot to wade through, I know they have moved warehouses etc of late but other people are having order time issues too? Anyone been waiting 10 weeks + like myself?

 Ratius wrote:
Was going to start a thread on this until I remembered this one.

My past experiences with Maelstrom (3 of them) have been good if a little slow but I placed an order for two Tervi kits on the 28th Aug and still no sign of them.
Managed to contact their customers service line around late Sept and they said the kits hadnt been dispatched by GW, so I said "no bother, I've lots of other stuff to work on" but I've called 5-6 times now in the last 3 weeks - no answer and emailed twice looking for an order update.
38 pages is a lot to wade through, I know they have moved warehouses etc of late but other people are having order time issues too? Anyone been waiting 10 weeks + like myself?

You are going to want to read through the last few aleast.

@ratius quite simply maelstrom is no more, you won't get your order as the owner rob lane has simply pocketed your cash. You need to do a chargeback via PayPal or your bank as soon as possible.

 Ratius wrote:
Was going to start a thread on this until I remembered this one.

My past experiences with Maelstrom (3 of them) have been good if a little slow but I placed an order for two Tervi kits on the 28th Aug and still no sign of them.
Managed to contact their customers service line around late Sept and they said the kits hadnt been dispatched by GW, so I said "no bother, I've lots of other stuff to work on" but I've called 5-6 times now in the last 3 weeks - no answer and emailed twice looking for an order update.
38 pages is a lot to wade through, I know they have moved warehouses etc of late but other people are having order time issues too? Anyone been waiting 10 weeks + like myself?

They haven't been moving warehouses, that was just a lie they were telling so that people didn't worry and continued sending them money for orders that they were unnable to fullfill due to massive debts with their suppliers. Apparently they have now declared bankruptcy and have moved on to a different company name.

Good luck getting your money back...

Hey sorry if its already been posted (I dont think it has) but Maelstrom have updated the site with a statement.

Jaysus, thanks peeps!!!
Man alive, lucky it wasnt a huge order.
Goddamit.

Stunty46 wrote:
Hey sorry if its already been posted (I dont think it has) but Maelstrom have updated the site with a statement.

Nice way for Wayland to get rid of a direct competitor!

Stunty46 wrote:
Hey sorry if its already been posted (I dont think it has) but Maelstrom have updated the site with a statement.

Well, since all I have outstanding is Mierce Banebeast stuff, I'll give them a couple more weeks. I'd rather have the minis (at that discount) than the cash back. Anyone with other stuff outstanding should contact their credit cards/paypal though.

Ok basically wayland kicked maelstrom out of business and letting themselves cost that maybe 50kGBP if at all (depending what worth that other company saw in its debt). Not very nice but quite effective . At least now everybody knows what happened to MG. I wish everybody luck in reclaiming their outstanding orders/cash back .