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 Cyporiean wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Looks like another coolminiornot or not crap festival. Guess the Sebastian model they showed as an example was a an example of quality was a pre-production hard resin cast. Still goes to show I was right to stop backing anything involving coolminiornot. Looks another pile of minis that might follow sedition wars into the bin, will have to see if anything is salvageable.

You must have missed all the other projects that CMoN has done that has yielded fantastic production values like Zombicide, Rivet Wars, and Kaosball.

But it's cool. You're entitled to your opinion.

And I guess you missed the craptastic ones but it's cool. Your entitled to your opinion.

4 Good to 2 Bad.

The Arcadia Quest and Wrath of Kings figures are looking good as well... so That'll be 6 to 2..

How was Guilds of Cad-something?

Guilds of cadwallon and zombicide are gaming tokens not miniatures, quality expectations differ greatly. Are Arcadia quest and wrath of kings finalised production examples? Rivet wars was good, haven't checked out kaosball so I'll take your word for it. Seems more like 50/50 at this point but cool story bro.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


And I guess you missed the craptastic ones but it's cool. Your entitled to your opinion.

No, I got plenty of Sedition Wars. The models take some cleaning but are still better than any restic Mantic has produced to date.

I don't have the RK stuff in hand yet, but based on the photos, they look pretty rough.

I've also had plenty of time hands on with the Arcadia Quest and Wrath of Kings production plastics. Like, Cyp said, they look really good. The Arcadia Quest ones have gone through three different plastics (varying colors and hardness) and the one they've settled on looks fantastic. I actually have some up close photos which I'll post.

I simply think you've an axe to grind with CMoN, and as such you're conveniently ignoring all of the good stuff or any other potential reasons for problems. All the Zombicide products look fantastic. All the Rivet Wars products look fantastic. All the Kaosball plastics look fantastic. If CMoN was really the devil you paint them out to be, none of that would be good.

@DaveC - It's a fun little filler/party game. Plays quickly. Good strategy and lots of fun "screw your neighbor."

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Guilds of cadwallon and zombicide are gaming tokens not miniatures, quality expectations differ greatly. Are Arcadia quest and wrath of kings finalised production examples? Rivet wars was good, haven't checked out kaosball so I'll take your word for it. Seems more like 50/50 at this point but cool story bro.

If the Zombicide minis are 'Gaming Tokens' and not Miniatures, than so are the Kaosball, Rivet Wars, Arcadian Quest, and Sedation Wars figures.

So here are the Arcadia Photos. Notice the different colors of the plastic. The most grey was their first run. Solid enough, especially if they're just "boardgame" pieces. The white grey was second, and the final plastic I was told they're using is the white plastic, which is what the Pigsy model is in. I was really impressed by the crispness of the detail; you can even see the texture to his cloak in my mediocre iPhone photo.









And again, I was told this is the final production plastic:

I think the Wrath of Kings minis will be the true test of what they are capable if they mess them up it's game over . Unfortunately some of the early projects suffered due to the minis not being designed for the PVC medium and they probably didn't understand it like they do now.

Zombicide minis are fine for a board game with loads of single piece minis - no compliants with them. Rivets Wars minis turned out really nice but the rivets designs are a lot simpler and easier to cast as is anything in the "chibi" asthetic like Arcadia Quest, you just have to look at SDE which is available to see this. I passed on Kasoball I have Dreadball I didn't need another "sports" game

I don't think Relic Knights is quite the write off some are making it out to be already, but I definitely wouldn't have got Cerci Speed Circuit or Doctrine had I seen the final production pieces first. Learnt my lesson with WoK just went for 2 factions enough to play and see the minis before I commit to any more.

 cincydooley wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


And I guess you missed the craptastic ones but it's cool. Your entitled to your opinion.

I simply think you've an axe to grind with CMoN, and as such you're conveniently ignoring all of the good stuff or any other potential reasons for problems. All the Zombicide products look fantastic. All the Rivet Wars products look fantastic. All the Kaosball plastics look fantastic. If CMoN was really the devil you paint them out to be, none of that would be good.

Totes amazing mind reading skills there bro.

Actually I never had any problems with coolminiornot or it's former incarnation like some had before they started doing kick starters. I thought what they where offering based on the artists involved and the renders/earlier versions of models to be produced looked very promising. However when I finally started receiving product starting with sedition wars, the quality was substandard. The majority of the issues where obviously caused by trying to cut costs to the bone, this was neither a good or evil decision (even though you try to put words in my mouth with devil part ) but a business one. This became a growing trend as well as poor communication (though raging heroes gives them a run a for their money). So my low opinion is due to their actions not this mythical axe you believe I have.

In all honestly I would love to see them put out good quality product, crap quality is bad for everyone not just the consumer.

As far as future coolminiornot projects, I will wait to retail to judge the product in my hand before handing over any cash. And whilst those Arcadia photos do look good you have absolutely no guarantee that is how they will turn out. Look at the difference between the Sebastian they showed a while ago which looked very crisp and now these? Notice a difference? So while I'm sure you have a very cool opinion I'm very happy to keep my opinion as it is until they decide to raise it. It's been cool chatting bro and hopefully you've picked up on how annoying bro'ing people on a forum is x x x.

We can at least hope the rules are fun and tightly written. IMO that would make up for a few odd game pieces.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
It's been cool chatting bro and hopefully you've picked up on how annoying bro'ing people on a forum is x x x.

I have no idea what this means in the context of our conversation, as I haven't said "bro" once.

I'll reiterate. I understand your disappointment with the Sedition Wars stuff. I don't personally have the same problems you do (the minis took a bit more time to clean up than I wanted, but the detail is good). But because of your experience with Sedition Wars, you're painting with a large brush that leaves out all of the other successes. I think placing the blame solely on CMoN for any inadequacies with Sedition Wars or Relic Knights is also inappropriate; Studio McVey and Soda Pop are also at least partially culpable. The biggest difference is that CMoN has, again, these other successes while McVey and Soda Pop do not (yet), and due to that I don't think it's an unreasonable stretch to assume the problem may have been more with the former and less with CMoN.

 DaveC wrote:
I think the Wrath of Kings minis will be the true test of what they are capable if they mess them up it's game over.

That's where I am with it now.

A shame too, as Drakerys has great concept art but...it is also using PVC/"Restic" too.

EDIT:

I know Drakerys is not a CMON project! I was just complaining about another "RESTIC" minis Kickstarter!

Also, RELIC KNIGHTS is now SODA POP only.

 Cyporiean wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Guilds of cadwallon and zombicide are gaming tokens not miniatures, quality expectations differ greatly. Are Arcadia quest and wrath of kings finalised production examples? Rivet wars was good, haven't checked out kaosball so I'll take your word for it. Seems more like 50/50 at this point but cool story bro.

If the Zombicide minis are 'Gaming Tokens' and not Miniatures, than so are the Kaosball, Rivet Wars, Arcadian Quest, and Sedation Wars figures.

Sedation Wars figures

... It seems to fitting somehow.

In all seriousness though, a crucial difference between systems like Arcadia Quest, Rivet Wars and so on, versus Sedition Wars and Relic Knights is that both of the latter were sold on the strength of their miniatures, at least in my opinion.

It's rather telling that on the official forums the line is rapidly shifting from "wait till they are in hand", to "well, when you compare them to board game pieces they are pretty good..."

Let's be honest, some of these miniatures are appallingly bad. Even more importantly, they are miniatures being used to sell a game that really relies on its style as a selling point. A the end of the year people that want an anime influenced game in skirmish scale will have a number of options: Infinity, Anime Tactics, Relic Knights, Endless Fantasy Tactics, probably some others I am forgetting.

Why would you recommend RK over the other options? People are saying the miniatures for RK are about on par with WM/Hordes, but even if that is true (and I am ambivalent on the matter), WM/H doesn't survive on the strength of the models, but in spite of the models. It prospers because it is the hardcore and balanced game on the market, and, lest we forget, it began selling models when their quality was closer to the industry standard.

I didn't back Relic Knights on the strength or fun of it's rules system. So I'm kinda disappointed overall.

What I see is not something I'd buy (at the price being offered) and that more than anything is what's bummin' me out.

Edit: Sporty Malya from SPM Facebook

I"m willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we get it. The models we saw at GenCon looked solid overall, so I'm still going to remain optimistic. I think we could really benefit from seeing a mini that was primed white and then washed with blue or green, as that usually gives a good sense of detail retention that is sometimes lost in photos.

Yep. I also think that unpainted restic tends to particularly suffer from that. I've been kind of appalled with how some restic stuff looked, then a simple white priming brought out a lot of detail. I think the material might be just barely translucent?

 Dentry wrote:
I didn't back Relic Knights on the strength or fun of it's rules system. So I'm kinda disappointed overall.

What I see is not something I'd buy (at the price being offered) and that more than anything is what's bummin' me out.

Edit: Sporty Malya from SPM Facebook

Is that the alternate Malya?

Yes that's the "battle pose" for Malya

 DaveC wrote:
Yes that's the "battle pose" for Malya

Weren't the battle poses supposed to be less...overt like that? That was my understanding anyway. Still going to reserve judgement for quality until the minis are in my hand at least- They havent shown close-ups of the Hell's Belles or Suicide Queen yet, so my favorites may still be salvageable.

Yeah it's toned down from the original pose but probably not nearly as much as people are expecting. I had no issue with the original poses and will probably use them unless the detail is better on the battle pose miniatures (being metal)

Battle pose Malya herself is metal not PVC so the detail should be better on this model.

She does appear to have a nose at least. Goggles are not painted on, and the hair has individual "strands".

 DaveC wrote:
I think the Wrath of Kings minis will be the true test of what they are capable if they mess them up it's game over . Unfortunately some of the early projects suffered due to the minis not being designed for the PVC medium and they probably didn't understand it like they do now.

Zombicide minis are fine for a board game with loads of single piece minis - no compliants with them. Rivets Wars minis turned out really nice but the rivets designs are a lot simpler and easier to cast as is anything in the "chibi" asthetic like Arcadia Quest, you just have to look at SDE which is available to see this. I passed on Kasoball I have Dreadball I didn't need another "sports" game

I don't think Relic Knights is quite the write off some are making it out to be already, but I definitely wouldn't have got Cerci Speed Circuit or Doctrine had I seen the final production pieces first. Learnt my lesson with WoK just went for 2 factions enough to play and see the minis before I commit to any more.

If wrath of kings ends up being a fart in the wind... then I'm going to throw a tantrum

"restic" seems like it can only work with large rounded "cartoon-like" miniatures, such as arcadia quest,

Anything that is small with tedious detail it will suffer dearly. Hence the disaster that is Sedition Wars.

No matter the style, the material still sucks to clean up.

Science needs to put everything on the back burner and create a method to fix that problem.

Science has a fix. It is called "Use appropriate materials,not restic".

Bit of an update from Deke

Okay, the response I have from CMoN is that they are organizing all the pledges, that it will take a bit of time, and that they will keep us informed.

We are still anticipating/hoping to hit the June 20 retail release for Relic Knights. It is obviously contingent on backers packages being in the mail first.

The Candy Heart credit should be applied this week. I will post up as soon as that happens. Since it is a $15 store credit you can use it on anything in the store, not just Candy Heart. (Yes, that includes SDE: Forgotten King.)

The painted Malya people have seen on Facebook is done by John. It is one of the few production models we've received.

In brief closing: We haven't even been given all the production models yet either, so we're just as excited/on edge as all of you. That said the models are done, they're in the states, and should be in everyone's hands soon. This last bit of waiting is killer since we've all been waiting so long, but the end is in sight!

Hooray! Hopefully CMoN will quit dragging their feet so I can see these minis for myself.

So the minis are in the states and they want all the backers , globally, to receive their pledges before the 20th of this month. Well I'll believe that when my **** turns purple and smells of rainbow sherbet.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
So the minis are in the states and they want all the backers , globally, to receive their pledges before the 20th of this month. Well I'll believe that when my **** turns purple and smells of rainbow sherbet.

I was under the impression they had more than one distribution hub. Didn't they mention some Pacfic countries already being shipped out?

Received no mailed yes I thought the choice of words was interesting basically so long as they can say it's in the post then they feel they are all clear to sell it retail when really given the delays to date and the goodwill already lost they should be pushing back the retail release for at least a month after items start to ship (to deal with inevitable shipping issues/order issues). I really hope CMoN see this through properly given they have lost the franchise and there's nothing much in it for them there's little incentive to be 100% first time.

Asia Pacific direct from China, EU forwarded through Germany, US and RoW shipped from US that's the shipping plan given the items have left the manufacturer you would expect some word about Asia/Pacific at this stage would they not be the first delivered unless they are holding them to ship once the US begins.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
So the minis are in the states and they want all the backers , globally, to receive their pledges before the 20th of this month. Well I'll believe that when my **** turns purple and smells of rainbow sherbet.

They said shipped.

That makes me uncomfortable. I can understand that perhaps SPM isn't in the best place financially - is that still true? - and delays cost them money, but because of the extended wait it doesn't sit right that I'd get my stuff after retail.

Although I'm not sure pushing the launch date back for no real reason other than making us feel better is a good thing either.

Have they even started shipping yet? Deke's post is ambiguous at best about that. It just says CMON is organizing all the pledges. Nothing about it having started shipment

It's all in CMoN's hands now. They'll ship it when they feel like it.

Sining wrote:
Have they even started shipping yet? Deke's post is ambiguous at best about that. It just says CMON is organizing all the pledges. Nothing about it having started shipment

I know they got the last crate last week. They unpacked it and have been packaging stuff since, I believe, Thursday.

It benefits them to get rid of the stuff as soon as they can sp they can wipe their hands of it, quite frankly.