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Can we all get angry at FedEx for bad communication now?

It is good to see so many people have tracking numbers now. I hope I am not overly optimistic for expecting the main pledge shipping to end next week. Has anyone got their cerci/insert followup package yet? Do we know if they have been sent out?

Everyone who pledged at Gotta catch 'em all plus extras- I pledged the same but only got three different factions. Perhaps the more different factions you ordered will mean waiting longer?

oddly enough, i've gotten two tracker emails, both showing a saturday delivery, assuming it doesn't disappear into the depths of atlanta

So following some earlier posted links...

Either we're getting a great deal on prices here (and we probably are) and/or the retail prices for this one are...odd.


Breaker Team - 1 50mm base, 2 models: $14.95


Serpent Priestess - 1 40mm base, 1 model: $17.95


Cerci Speed Circuit Starter
1x Marie-Claude Model — Questing Knight
1x Esmee Model — Cypher
1x Royal Wrecker Model — Minion
2x Pit Crew Models — Minion Squad
4x 30mm and 1x 50mm Bases
32 page, full-color mini-rulebook
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
54 Card Esper Deck
31 colored acrylic tokens
Dashboard Playmat
$49.95


Black Diamond Starter
1x Leopold Magnus Model — Questing Knight
1x Static Model — Cypher
1x M8-Blitz Auto-Tank Model — Minion
5x Diamond Corps Models — Minion Squad
1x 50mm, 1x 40mm, and 6x 30mm Bases
32 page, full-color mini-rulebook
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
54 Card Esper Deck
31 colored acrylic tokens
Dashboard Playmat
$49.95


Noh Empire Starter
1x High Priestess Zineda Model — Questing Knight
1x Spite Model — Cypher
1x Render Model — Minion
2x Kyojin Berserker Models — Minion Squad
1x 30mm, 1x 40mm, and 3x 50mm Bases
32 page, full-color mini-rulebook
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
54 card Esper Deck
31 colored acrylic tokens
Dashboard Playmat
$49.95


1x Princess Malya Model — Relic Knight
1x Mr. Tomn Model — Cypher
1x 80mm and 1x 30mm Base
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
$44.95


1x Sebastian Cross Model — Relic Knight
1x Rook Model — Cypher
1x 80mm and 1x 30mm Base
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
$54.95


1x Kasaro To Model — Relic Knight
1x Azi Model — Cypher
1x 80mm and 1x 30mm Bases
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
$54.95


1x Mamaro To Model — Unique
1x 50mm Base
Unit Tracker and Reference Card
$21.95


1x Jeanne Romee Model — Questing Knight
1x Gallant Model — Cypher
1x Navarre Hauer Model — Unique
1x 30mm and 2x 40mm Bases
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
$27.95


1x Diamondback Model — Minion
1x 80mm Base
Unit Tracker and Reference Cards
$49.95

I guess I'm happy I got all I did during the Kickstarter, because given these prices, and the materials involved, I don't think I'd be picking up a lot at 'retail'.

A lot depends on how well the game does, how the player base develops and, perhaps most importantly, the overall quality of the miniatures...

So....the frustrating thing for Shattered Sword players will be getting Jeanne separately if they already got Navvarre with the KS.

Noticed the new art for Jeanne. Real curious when they're going to show the model. Can't say that's gone well for them recently though so they might be a bit hesitant to show anything.

 cincydooley wrote:
So....the frustrating thing for Shattered Sword players will be getting Jeanne separately if they already got Navvarre with the KS.

Oh the frustration is worse for me. I skipped Austrican and Navarre in the kickstarter since I already own the metal Navare (and Isabeau). Now I will end up with two Navarre anyway and THREE Isabeau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Everyone who pledged at Gotta catch 'em all plus extras- I pledged the same but only got three different factions. Perhaps the more different factions you ordered will mean waiting longer?

Five factions and extras arrived for me Friday -and a playmat Monday. It is possible Cmon skipped a batch of large orders at some point.
Or maybe you will be like me and get your tracking number the same day the box arrives.

 Dais wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
So....the frustrating thing for Shattered Sword players will be getting Jeanne separately if they already got Navvarre with the KS.

Oh the frustration is worse for me. I skipped Austrican and Navarre in the kickstarter since I already own the metal Navare (and Isabeau). Now I will end up with two Navarre anyway and THREE Isabeau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Everyone who pledged at Gotta catch 'em all plus extras- I pledged the same but only got three different factions. Perhaps the more different factions you ordered will mean waiting longer?

Five factions and extras arrived for me Friday -and a playmat Monday. It is possible Cmon skipped a batch of large orders at some point.
Or maybe you will be like me and get your tracking number the same day the box arrives.

I've had mine since Monday actually. I have not received a tracking number for the playmat yet. What I was inferring that having six factions would be more compicated than three.

As for the retail prices... Sheesh. I may not be picking up anything else at all. I like what I got, but I'm not sure I want to pay $50 for another Relic Knight. Princess Malya's knight is comparable to a Tyranid Warrior, for the price of three! I'm hoping this is Canadian prices or something, although I doubt it.

Although the starter sets are in-line with what I thought of the pricing.

Only because I love you dakkadakka- grainy iPhone photos.

Yeah...I'm not paying 45 dollars for that little lady.

I thought it said she came on a 80mm base?

My primary interests were the Noh stuff. Hopefully Kasaro shows his value a bit better than the princess.

She does, but I have no idea why. I noticed a lot of things could easily fit on smaller bases. The Black Diamond Breaker Team, Noh Serpent Priestess, the Cerci Royal Wrecker, and pretty much all the Relic Knights.

Kasaro-to may make his base worthwhile- almost all of the Noh stuff is huge.

djkickz on the soda pop forum has posted the first shots of one of the battle pose minis (one shot)

I noticed that One-Shot and Princess Malya's battle poses are on a larger scale than their normal poses. The normal poses are in scale with Heroclix figures(DC girls is what I compared them to), while the battle poses are closer to 40k(Deldar Wyches at least).

I hope those retail prices are a mistake too.

With all the problems and delays it took to get here finally, add in some soft details, mispacks and then some fairly ridiculous pricing on top of all that?

Could make this one DOA, and that would be sad.

Wow so they spent two years prepping to immediately price themselves out of the market completely. That's some GW level business tactics there.

I'm assuming those are MSRPs?

Are they really so bad compared to the rest of the field after accounting for the usual retail and online shops have regularly lop 10-40% off?

I've only bought into 2 games to date, one was a fairly cost effective skirmish game and the other is a running gag campaign that hasn't delivered yet, but the cost per mini was pretty low, so I don't have a strong basis for comparison.

Yes, they are.

At least for me.

Especially given the material and the 'quality'.

And the fact that they're a 'new entry' in this increasingly crowded field and are trying to establish/grow a player base.

If I didn't go in for a lot during the Kickstarter, there's NO WAY I'd be buying them now...

As I have shown above, even compared to GW I feel the prices are steep compared to what you get. Tyranid warriors come three to a box for about $50. Princess Malya come with a comparatively sized model for $45. I would also say the Tyranids are designed better, and come with several options versus the mono-build of the Princess. I would have thought she would come in closer to $25-30 myself.

I guess a small upside, at least for a while, will be the people who end up pitching their stuff on the secondary market allowing for at least some people to buy in cost effectively. Unless the demand vastly outstrips the supply, that is, which the buzz in this forum isn't exactly leading me to believe will be the case.

Though I guess that's kind of a lose/lose; if the demand is low enough or the supply is high enough because of these issues, there probably also won't be much sense trying to sell either. Kind of a grey area on the spectrum to even recoup costs.

That said, not every campaign will end up with people being able to sell their pledge package for two to three times its original cost, but hopefully a bunch of people don't get stuck with hundreds of dollars worth of plastic they can't get rid of.

Okay, so I have a lot of pictures to come, but I'm having trouble uploading them from my phone. I'll have to wait till I'm on wifi or something.

A few notes:

1. The Shattered Sword models are thusfar my favorite. They're all scaled really well with each other, maintain the detail really well (for the most part) down to filigree on some of the knights' legs. Francis Mallory and Quill look great, as do the Paragons and the Purifiers.

2. The doctrine stuff seems to suffer the most from soft detail so far. I think this is in part due to the fact that they're probably the most "cartoony" faction out of the bunch. Additionally, they're scaled up considerably larger than the rest of the models I've assembled from Shattered Sword, Cersi, and Black Diamond. Fiametta is gigantic. Simply gigantic. But with that being said, they all look pretty good. They definitely remind me of the miniature versions of any anime set in a high school.

3. Mould lines do exist on these models, and if you don't want to clean up mould lines, you can sell some of your models to me They do exists in various forms, but none of them have been egregious to me (and certainly not as bad as those poor Mantic Rebels models I wanted to love so much). On some models, they're virtually non existent (the Paragons look fantastic and clean up was really quick--the 10 mins I quoted before was totally off). On others, they're there, but i don't think I've had too much trouble cleaning up anything.

4. The Black Diamond troops look solid, except for the three holes in their kneepads. the detail on them is way off, and doesn't "fit" with the rest of the model. Personally, I'm probably going to fill them in.

5. I cut myself for the first time last night (actually my fault, not the material's) and man, I was quickly reminded how much a tiny cut on your thumb can bleed.

The quality of the figures isn't worth that price IMO. Soda Pop hurt themselves going restic.

The prices for those models are even higher than Dream Pod 9 Heavy Gear resin prices... and Heavy Gear is a very niche game with a tiny fanbase partly because of the prices of armies. Maybe they feel that they can charge more per fig ala Infinity et al because it is a skirmish game with a lower total entry price. Since CMON is no longer involved or bank rolling this, maybe that lack of a "distributor" has some bearing on the price as well?

Forar wrote:
That said, not every campaign will end up with people being able to sell their pledge package for two to three times its original cost, but hopefully a bunch of people don't get stuck with hundreds of dollars worth of plastic they can't get rid of.

Very, very few Kickstarters end up selling for more than your initial investment.

cincydooley wrote:Okay, so I have a lot of pictures to come, but I'm having trouble uploading them from my phone. I'll have to wait till I'm on wifi or something.

Looking forward to the pics!

I didn't like the look of Doctrine back during the campaign, and seeing how they turned out, I'm glad I avoided them.

Take care of that thumb!

Dr Mathias wrote:The quality of the figures isn't worth that price IMO. Soda Pop hurt themselves going restic.

Definitely.

To be fair, I guess you could say these were the beginnings of the whole 'restic' thing for miniatures on KS - before the horror that was SW, Mantic and now, Relic Knights.

The RK stuff seems to be fairing a bit better than SW and Mantic's efforts though...

 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I have a lot of pictures to come, but I'm having trouble uploading them from my phone. I'll have to wait till I'm on wifi or something.

A few notes:

1. The Shattered Sword models are thusfar my favorite. They're all scaled really well with each other, maintain the detail really well (for the most part) down to filigree on some of the knights' legs. Francis Mallory and Quill look great, as do the Paragons and the Purifiers.

2. The doctrine stuff seems to suffer the most from soft detail so far. I think this is in part due to the fact that they're probably the most "cartoony" faction out of the bunch. Additionally, they're scaled up considerably larger than the rest of the models I've assembled from Shattered Sword, Cersi, and Black Diamond. Fiametta is gigantic. Simply gigantic. But with that being said, they all look pretty good. They definitely remind me of the miniature versions of any anime set in a high school.

3. Mould lines do exist on these models, and if you don't want to clean up mould lines, you can sell some of your models to me They do exists in various forms, but none of them have been egregious to me (and certainly not as bad as those poor Mantic Rebels models I wanted to love so much). On some models, they're virtually non existent (the Paragons look fantastic and clean up was really quick--the 10 mins I quoted before was totally off). On others, they're there, but i don't think I've had too much trouble cleaning up anything.

4. The Black Diamond troops look solid, except for the three holes in their kneepads. the detail on them is way off, and doesn't "fit" with the rest of the model. Personally, I'm probably going to fill them in.

5. I cut myself for the first time last night (actually my fault, not the material's) and man, I was quickly reminded how much a tiny cut on your thumb can bleed.

Speaking of scaling, did you notice any scale issues between factions? Noh Demons are just bigger I know(most of them are on 50mm's), but it seems Black Diamond troops will dwarf my Cerci peeps. Did you notice anything similar(problems with scaling between factions)? I know you mentioned Doctrine, but what about the others?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Alpharius Detail and mold lines seem fine. Only issues I have thus far are inter-faction scaling and retail price.

Good to hear - though scaling issues between factions is not good news.

And the retail pricing is just comically bad.

So lets have a look at these compared to the MRSP of the metals

The starter sets are pretty cheap for what you get minis, full rules counters etc

The Relic Knights are the same price as the metals (this really does seem a mistake I'd have aimed for $40, but a gamer will only need 1 per faction as they are unique so they've got to account for this in the price)

The 'bigger' stuff like the Noh are slightly cheaper as is the human stuff

so not it's not ultra bargain cheap (remember the recent online prices of the metals have often been 'clearout' prices, similarly comparing to other companies online prices is pretty misleading too)

although we'll have to see what margins for discounting the online stores find, it may well be better than the metals

also from what ive seen your really, really don't need to add much, far less than you do in for example warmachine or malifaux

The whole, "But you don't need as many models to play" issue doesn't hold weight with me. I expect the quality and material of the miniature to affect price- not how many you need of it. Reaper's Bones are dirt cheap, and I'll gladly buy them for what I get. Infinity generally has a higher or comparative price/model ratio than GW, but the quality of the sculpt and the miniature being metal gives reason for the higher price. These miniatures are lesser quality for a higher price than GW(my personal baseline at the moment). I am not comfortable with these prices at all, aside from the starter sets.

If I'm going to have a model sit on my shelf, it had better look good for the price I paid for it.

It is really strange that the Knights themselves come on such huge bases. I have the original metal Maya and she fits comfortably on a 60mm 40k base. I think I even posed her leaning forward a little more aggressively so she takes up extra space.

Glad to hear detail and cleaning isn't making people insane. I may never buy more of the things at those prices, but I hope to want to keep the ones I already have!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Speaking of scaling, did you notice any scale issues between factions? Noh Demons are just bigger I know(most of them are on 50mm's), but it seems Black Diamond troops will dwarf my Cerci peeps. Did you notice anything similar(problems with scaling between factions)? I know you mentioned Doctrine, but what about the others?

Definitely. Cersi and Shattered Sword look to be scaled exactly the same. The models all look great next to one another.

Black Diamond is a TOUCH larger, but I still think they look okay. They're a little "thicker," but I'm able to reconcile that additional bulk with the fact that they're in heavy armor.

The Doctrine models are larger than all of them. I have some scale shots to show it, but like I said, Fiametta is comically large. She looks great as a model, but putting her next to Isabeau Durand or one of the Purifiers is pretty hilarious.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Alpharius Detail and mold lines seem fine. Only issues I have thus far are inter-faction scaling and retail price.

This is where I sit as well. I'm really not bothered by the mould lines. They've been easy to get off (just as easy, really, as the ones on Wyrd's new plastics, IMO). I'm happy the models in each faction are scaled together (there's not any Black 13th going on here) but there is certainly a difference in how the Doctrine models are scaled vs. Cersi and Shattered Sword.

Man, I really want to get a Sophia Drake model, but if she turns out to be $30-$40 for a mini as small as I saw at GenCon last year I might even have to pass on her. This kinda sours me on future purchases from the Relic Knights line and that disappoints me greatly because I actually think the game and aesthetic are both really fun.

Sophia Drake is $12.95 and is on a par price wise with their other "plastic" character minis. She's a unique so you'll only ever buy one and the price kind of reflects that.

http://ninjadivision.com/products/sophia-drake/

but $22 for Mamaro To though just seems a bit to high to me

http://ninjadivision.com/products/mamaro-to/

and packing Jeanne Romee with a model everyone already has is a mistake IMO

Stuff like the Dahon, Castellan, Rust Bucket at $50 each is going to be a hard sell.