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60 Shots = 20 Hits = 10 Wounds = 1.67 Dead Terminators

Cool, now add in the assault of those 30 shoota boyz. Im willing to bet the termies loose a few more of their own then the boyz do

...Ignore me

Well King Cracker, 30 shoota boyz on the charge (Assuming not a single boy dies and the terminators are all packing power fists, and without a nob with pk, just 30 boyz) will inflict 22.75 wounds on a terminator squad, and will inflict 3.75 wounds on the terminators. So in shooting and assault, you kill 5.42 terminators.

Note to all TH/SS terminator players - don't deep strike in front of 30 Orks.

Thumbs up for Exciting revelations!

A squad of 30 shoota boyz will also inflict 0.83 wounds during overwatch against terminators. In the ensuing assault phase they will inflict 2.5 wounds, meaning a squad of 30 shoota boyz will kill 3.33 terminators if charged by them.

Of course if your terminators are totting lightning claws, its a very different picture for the ladz, but anything I1 and you're sending your 200 point squad into 180 points of fearless death Without a nob with a pk, he will make sure you're terminator armour captain gets instant deathed.

I've never really used terminators because I have the stalwart beleif that tac squads can do anyting, so these changes don't really affect me.

Trying fielding 50 Tactical Marines against 8 Battle Cannons at 1500 points and see how many die in turn one Tactical Marines work well in conjunction with other units, on their own they are weak compared to their points equivalents.

Orkaswampa wrote:Trying fielding 50 Tactical Marines against 8 Battle Cannons at 1500 points and see how many die in turn one Tactical Marines work well in conjunction with other units, on their own they are weak compared to their points equivalents.

I use other units, im just saying I use tac marines in every single role (including ones where terminators shine)

In the few games I have played in 6th I have been finding Terminators tough but not unbeatable. I took my 15 model 1,500 point Loganwing out and the Logan/Arjac+5 took on almost 1,000 points of Khorne and actually did real well even with some bad rolls.

In another game my Dreadknight [still a TEQ] wracked up 9 VPs by him self and only took only 2 wounds vs. Nids. While the Paladins and GKT squads only did ok. But this was one of those my dice could not do no wrong games. I only failed two saves with my Dreadknight and one of them was a Turn -0- Spore Mine.

Orkaswampa wrote:Well King Cracker, 30 shoota boyz on the charge (Assuming not a single boy dies and the terminators are all packing power fists, and without a nob with pk, just 30 boyz) will inflict 22.75 wounds on a terminator squad, and will inflict 3.75 wounds on the terminators. So in shooting and assault, you kill 5.42 terminators.

Note to all TH/SS terminator players - don't deep strike in front of 30 Orks.

Thumbs up for Exciting revelations!

A squad of 30 shoota boyz will also inflict 0.83 wounds during overwatch against terminators. In the ensuing assault phase they will inflict 2.5 wounds, meaning a squad of 30 shoota boyz will kill 3.33 terminators if charged by them.

Of course if your terminators are totting lightning claws, its a very different picture for the ladz, but anything I1 and you're sending your 200 point squad into 180 points of fearless death Without a nob with a pk, he will make sure you're terminator armour captain gets instant deathed.

Yea, thats why I dont understand why people are so afraid of using full lightning claw termy squads. Depending on what they are fighting against, they can be incredibly brutal, specially when lead by a Chaplain in Terminator armor. Ouch.

Considering Plasma and other AP2 or AP1 weapons still dominate Tac terminators like they were grots behind a wall, I don't think much has changed for the vanilla tac squad. Other terminators that are customizable, or TH/SS, sure. But not the vanilla squad. Still too expensive for the way it drops to plasma.

I think if anything, 6th just makes plasma all the more needed in a SM list

KingCracker wrote:I think if anything, 6th just makes plasma all the more needed in a SM list

I always found plasma useful in SM lists. boltguns don't kill MEQ so well

There are arguably better lawnmowers out there. Like my new shiny death company wooo!

Jihallah wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I think if anything, 6th just makes plasma all the more needed in a SM list

I always found plasma useful in SM lists. boltguns don't kill MEQ so well

Agreed, its why I never understood why people would just bash plasmas or say "NO DONT TAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY GET HOT!!!!" And? Your a fething Space Marine, you shrug that gak off most times. To me the pros FAR outweigh the cons.

Well what do you think is worse, being attacked by a terminator squad, or being attacked by a terminator squad that just got shot at by 4 plasma shots? I think terminators are far more scary than a gets hot wound, people need a reality check!

Here is something to keep in mind about Termies vs Orks. A smart player is not going to let a full squad of orks march up and assault without doing damage.

Starting 24" apart, and the orks go first, after the first round of Close Combat there will be 6 orks left and 6 shootie termies provided nothing else shot at the other. Of course points are completely out of wack, but that is not the point of this thread.

If the marines goes first, the Orks don't make it into close combat, and only lose 2 termies.

Now, can we stop comparing units in a vaccum and with stupid tactics?

I have two squads of 10 terminators with 2 cyclones and 2 chainfists.

Combat squad, put both cyclones in the sergeant and hang back, let the melee squad with two chainfists walk forward. No character, no challenge lock, just 10-15 power fist attacks.

Orkaswampa wrote:Well what do you think is worse, being attacked by a terminator squad, or being attacked by a terminator squad that just got shot at by 4 plasma shots? I think terminators are far more scary than a gets hot wound, people need a reality check!

Yea nicely put. Thats why when I play a game with some SM, I always have the plasma out in force, just in case. Sgts have PP and squads have plasma rifles.

Can I say the mathhammering of terminators vs. ork boyz has large variance so doesn't give an accurate picture.
Then it is very unlikely situation anyway as being discussed.

Though the point is clear always take a few lightning claws as hitting last isn't fun.

I was just doing points for points But yes, id say 3 pairs of lightning claws and 2 TH/SS is suffice, for most situations.

Thunderhammer termies make me smile even more against Boyz. Yes, they are a seriously tough unit against most other units, but a mass of boyz, they die just the same.

KingCracker wrote:Thunderhammer termies make me smile even more against Boyz. Yes, they are a seriously tough unit against most other units, but a mass of boyz, they die just the same.

I agree. Even 5 Lighting Claws charging the Orks, LC kills 6, and the orks kills 2. Will it will take a few rounds, the orks will win out. That's why I think Shootie termies are the best choice now.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:I have two squads of 10 terminators with 2 cyclones and 2 chainfists.

Combat squad, put both cyclones in the sergeant and hang back, let the melee squad with two chainfists walk forward. No character, no challenge lock, just 10-15 power fist attacks.

That is a VERY dangerous tactic. You really should have the sargent in there against some armies. I know that with Nids if you don't have a speedbump even Terminators will die pretty badly. Its better to toss a sargent at the Swarmlord, a Tyrant, a Broodlord or a Prime then have them rip through your very expensive unit.

5 terminators are just some 1W guys with a 5+ save against someone who ignores armor and does not have a weapon that makes them strike at I1.

jbunny wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Thunderhammer termies make me smile even more against Boyz. Yes, they are a seriously tough unit against most other units, but a mass of boyz, they die just the same.

I agree. Even 5 Lighting Claws charging the Orks, LC kills 6, and the orks kills 2. Will it will take a few rounds, the orks will win out. That's why I think Shootie termies are the best choice now.

Hell, Ive thought shooty terminators were always underrated anyways. They can be very deadly with shooting.

I can't wait to see how deadly the new dark angels deathwing will be when their codex comes out, but i can guarantee the average number of plasma guns in a tournament will skyrocket lol

 Jihallah wrote:
Considering Plasma and other AP2 or AP1 weapons still dominate Tac terminators like they were grots behind a wall, I don't think much has changed for the vanilla tac squad. Other terminators that are customizable, or TH/SS, sure. But not the vanilla squad. Still too expensive for the way it drops to plasma.

I started playing tac termis from 6th and they have been pretty dominant, there just isn't as much ap2 ap1 shooting that you think there would be and it largely is anti tank and people are loath to waste it on a termi squad.

I feel like they are generally buffed (perhaps with the exception of GK Termies) due to various factors such as power weapon nerfs, deep strike, cover nerfs and general dominance towards shooting.


Power weapon nerf: Obviously our biggest Termie saver. No more Sarge with a sword chopping the 20pnt models.

Deep Strike: More viable than ever with the new Deep Strike rules. Unlike what many may think, Deep Striking Termies are actually useful in many cases.

Cover save nerf: Some may say, "But that's bad for Termies..." but think about it. That 2+ Armour save you paid for your dear points is going to do more than its job. Plus, nerf to cover save applies to EVERYONE.

General dominance of shooting: A controversial topic but... I feel like "Tactical Termies" are more useful than ever b4.

Terminators are slightly buffed in CC with Power Weapon changes, except when fighting Necrons.

Warscythes are not your friend. Avoid them as they will wreck those TH/SS Termies you thought were so awesome before you even get a chance to hit back.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Terminators are slightly buffed in CC with Power Weapon changes, except when fighting Necrons.

Warscythes are not your friend. Avoid them as they will wreck those TH/SS Termies you thought were so awesome before you even get a chance to hit back.

No, really, the entire point of TH/SS Terminators is the 3++. They're still the best anti-deathstar for their points in the game.

 KingCracker wrote:
Hell, Ive thought shooty terminators were always underrated anyways. They can be very deadly with shooting.

5 termies is 10 shots
6.6 hits
3.3 wounds?
200p?
3.3 wounds for 200p?