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Since 6th ed. dropped people have been going bananas for Terminators. I think that it is fairly uncontroversial to state that the edition has helped them by reducing the cover save modifier, by making power weapons ap3, and by making the deep strike chart less dangerous. This being said, are these and other benefits enough to justify the superstar status that Terminators have in the minds of many gamers?

Terminators have a great save. However, I think that they are just as vulnerable to shooting as they were in last edition. Also since the meta seems to be moving towards shooting, this could be a problem for Termis.

There is no doubt that they are better in close combat than in 5th ed. However, to get into combat they will be the target of more shooting. Once in combat they will likely win. However, once stuck in, it is likely that they will be tarpitted. Terminators were never really good at dealing with hordes, as they lack the number of attacks to deal with them. With the changes to fearless, tarpitting is more effective in 6th than in 5th. Armies that do not have fearless hordes, will likely play multiple small units. If the terminators make it to the enemy lines, they will assault one unit, kill it, and then probably be gunned down by other units.

So what do you think? Do shooty Terminators beat out other units? Will CC Terminators be effective this edition?

I have truly never understood how people would believe that terminators are viable now suddenly just because of a nerf to power weapons.

As you can read in the post above, the terminators biggest issue has always been that they are targets for too much AP 2 shooting. And there's quite a lot of that nowdays. This hasn't changed at all so why would people call 6th for terminator edition? It's just silly. You would rather believe the opposite now when plasma guns are even better.

Did either of you stop to think why there's now so much AP2 shooting?

Well, they didn't get better but the rules makes them a superior choice in cc. But there is still the problem to bring them into the thickest melee.

Terminator are definitely boosted and are far harder to kill. However their main weakness (few bodies) is not changed so the same methods for taking out terminators apply. (I.E. more wounds and special weapons.)

The Nerf actually has the most effect on terminator on terminator violence. Whereas before Draigowing was probably top Deathwing has replaced it and loganwing is second (even fewer bodies.).

Terminators are better in close combat. Even the previously ignored Tactical terminators are useful. GK terminators took a hit because they don't have AP2 melee weapons aside from Hammers, and no Storm Shield access.

They no longer fear melee units that carry bucket loads of power weapons, except those with Axes.

In shooting, they are slightly less durable because of the reduction in cover. Those weapons that do ignore their armor at range got better because cover is now only 5+.

So far they still are not a problem for Nids. We have access to a ton of units that ignore armor in CC (Rending claws, boneswords, MCs). Even Thunderhammers have problems because those units tend to strike first (Tervigon excepted).

And for shooting we just default to the buckets of dice method. 20 Devgaunts fire 60 shots and with PE they are pretty nastly for a 200pt unit.

But at the end of the day terminators are not a real issue for anyone who has access to cheap troops that are fearless or stubbon. Just tarpit them and ignore.

Terminators are only king in threads that give people an excuse to poo-poo power weapons.

My sergeants will be toting plasma pistols in 6th Ed. It makes me happy because plasma pistols look so bad ass!

With all of the Fear of 2+ everyone is loading up on AP1-2 weapons. I think in the long run they will do better, but right now they have the survivability of Vehicles just form the Fallout.

Well it certainly seems that they are not king, especially with all of the plasma that people will be taking thanks to the new vehicle rules. Maybe people are considering them because of the meta. At the moment the army to beat is Necrons. I don't think that Terminators are especially good against them.

The biggest buff to Termies is not the armour rules, but FNP rules. Units of Grey Knights, and Blood Angels running around with FNP will be big, and difficult to deal with. Most AP2 weapons are not strong enough to kill them out right, so the get inv saves and the FNP saves.

jbunny wrote:The biggest buff to Termies is not the armour rules, but FNP rules. Units of Grey Knights, and Blood Angels running around with FNP will be big, and difficult to deal with. Most AP2 weapons are not strong enough to kill them out right, so the get inv saves and the FNP saves.

You forgot the Deathwing

They are the prince of the assault phase thanks to the PW nerf.

They're in the same boat they were last edition as far as the shooting phase is concerned.

The true king of the assault phase though is multiwound units with one or more 2+ saves, one of which is on an independent character and/or is rerollable.

Dark Harliestars, the infamous Nob Bikers, etcetera. They truly are the best CC units this edition.

And at 500+ points for one of these things, they fething well better be.

Deathwing is probably the most dangerous as they can get half their squads into CC turn 2 and can take both stormshields and cylcones in the same unit.

spaceelf wrote:At the moment the army to beat is Necrons. I don't think that Terminators are especially good against them.

Necrons have almost no AP2 shooting, and the only strong infantry unit, wraiths, are hard countered by terminators. Heavy terminator armies are going to give wraiths a lot of problems, especially armies like chaos that can outfit their terminators with nice bonuses, and put reaper autocannons on characters for picking out pesky necron crypteks and lords.

Testify wrote:Terminators are only king in threads that give people an excuse to poo-poo power weapons.

^ This.

Lokas wrote:Dark Harliestars, the infamous Nob Bikers, etcetera. They truly are the best CC units this edition.

And at 500+ points for one of these things, they fething well better be.

And with a teeny bit of mobility your archon is suddenly not the closest model, and your harlies get eaten veeery quickly. Nob bikers are comparable to terminators, because they are tough and heavy hitting individuals.
I found the easiest way to deal with terminators before was to turn AP2 weapons on them such as plasma. Against a huge block of terminators I might not have enough plasma. But 1200p is ALOT to spend on terminators.

flak still kills terminators. also, the necrons have the death ray.

terminators are not a hard counter to wraiths. the wraiths have many attacks and rending with a 3+ save. would be a good fight.

in general though, if you can deliver the terminators, they got better.

I played my deathwing against a 1000 pts. Mech IG army. It was a massacre.

I should have stayed at the back, shooting with 48'' range weapons forcing the enemy to come to me, so he could get the objectives. He was completely foregoing objectives throughout the game.

Instead I tried to get into CC, but was met with a wall of Chimeras, had terrible rolls for penetration and only immobilized one of the vehicles, killed 2 infantry squads through the whole game. He forced me to roll for so many saves that even a 3++ save was a joke.

Bottom line, terminators will not protect you from grossly misunderstanding which kind of fight you are getting into. Which I admit, I made a total tactical mistake.

I play a GK paladin army, and I think that the changes to rapid fire, along with the rush for people to take as much plasma as possible, is going to actually hurt terminator armies in 6th edition. 5th edition armies featured tons of meltas, which were limited in range, and could be outshot by storm bolters and psycannons at 24 inches. Now most enemy units will be packing one or two plasmaguns, which can stand and shoot two shots each at 24 inches, forcing terminators to rely on their invulnerable saves. Deathwing armies are probably best able to handle this since they can run TH/SS + a cyclone launcher in each squad, but they're likely getting updated soon and who knows how long that will last?

OP; No. They still are t4, have 1 wound, and a Leman Russ variant of equivalent price could hit them so hard their paint strips. Everything has a counter, nothing is king.

A big nice thing about terminator is the reduction of cover saves

basically if youre running them up the field, there isnt a difference between 5+ invuln or 5+ cover

Jihallah wrote:

Lokas wrote:Dark Harliestars, the infamous Nob Bikers, etcetera. They truly are the best CC units this edition.

And at 500+ points for one of these things, they fething well better be.

And with a teeny bit of mobility your archon is suddenly not the closest model, and your harlies get eaten veeery quickly. Nob bikers are comparable to terminators, because they are tough and heavy hitting individuals.

Emphasis mine.

Yes, you can outmaneuver and shoot up a harliestar. It's still one of (if not the) best close combat units in the game.

OP: as has been said earlyier No they arent king.

i have played only a few games, but i still find that enough bolters still do the job.

So no they not king. you just cant really kill them in close combat as easily anymore

Godless-Mimicry wrote:Did either of you stop to think why there's now so much AP2 shooting?

Still my Tyranids gently weep... (but at least our special CC weapons are all straight-up armour ignoring)

So, I had a soft spot for tactical terminators before, and yes, now they did just get better. It's not just that fewer things hurt them, it's that shooting just got better, and tac termies were already good at that.

I agree that you've got to resist the urge to think that somehow termies became ultra-awesome now, but its equally bad to continue to underestimate what they are capable of, especially in a world where they got a little better.

Will terminators be king of 6th ed? No, that title belongs to mech gunlines. Did terminators get better? Yes, so if you already secretly wanted to take them but could never justify it, you might want to give them a try now.


As for people with Ap2 weapons vs. terminators, so what? I've seen WAY more terminators drop to weight of fire, than Ap2+ weapons. My guard ripper gunned or exterminatored them to death, DE threw down their RIDICULOUS number of venom+small arms attacks, orks drug them down with mass choppaz (or, well, now they'd be using shootas). This was especially true in a world where storm shields are so popular.

who cares about 2+ don't even need ap2 weps.

Terminators have and always will go down to mass small arms fire.

30 Shoota Boyz - 60 shots + overwatch bye terminators

mcpothead wrote:who cares about 2+ don't even need ap2 weps.

Terminators have and always will go down to mass small arms fire.

30 Shoota Boyz - 60 shots + overwatch bye terminators

10 hits, 5 wounds, slightly less than one dead Terminator. Then what?

My chaos termies perform pretty much exactly as they did in 5th.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

mcpothead wrote:who cares about 2+ don't even need ap2 weps.

Terminators have and always will go down to mass small arms fire.

30 Shoota Boyz - 60 shots + overwatch bye terminators

10 hits, 5 wounds, slightly less than one dead Terminator. Then what?

120 shots = 10 hits?

How do you roll - spack handed?