Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

man having to deal with shipping charges on a website like kick starter is a bit of a pain, hope there wont be too many people out there that pledge a certain amount and miss out on something because they did do the math right

Excalibur stretch hit, moments away from Grendel/Beowulf gun at $61K!

 RiTides wrote:
Excalibur stretch hit, moments away from Grendel/Beowulf gun at $61K!

so exited, Need to change my pledge amount tonight as I need a second Lev. Also need to include additional funds in my pledge to account for the weapons I want / am sure will unlock

also need to figure out shipping

At first, I balked at the arm prices too, but Mark's explanation makes sense.

I think that all of us hope that this is more than just a one-shot chance to get a cheap titan and some cool sci-fi infantry. I think we all would love to see a truly viable company rise out of the efforts and MONEY that this Kickstarter campaign is generating. If that means that Mark's gotta sell arms at $25, then so be it. It is justified if it means that, three years down the road, I can go down to my FLGS, or to the Warstore.com, and purchase some Iron-Core miniatures, not worrying if the line will disappear in 6 months. Or, even better, that I can purchase an Iron-Core army set, and so can my buddy, and we can sit down and play an Iron-Core game (and not just use the awesome and reasonably priced models as proxies for GW figures).

All that said, I would like to pose a question that I am not sure has been fully addressed. Usually with Kickstarters, part of the premium that early supporters get is that the merchandise received at different pledge levels is more expensive post-kickstarter, that is to say, your pledge is a kind of discounted pre-order of something that will be available later from the company at regular, which is to say somewhat higher, prices.

This brings me to my question. Mark/NoseGoblin:

Can you give us an idea of what the prices on some of these products will be POST-Kickstarter? Or, put another way, can you give us an idea of what kind of premium supporters are receiving by supporting now.

I know this might be a bit much to ask. I do so for several reasons:

1.-To try to drive home the benefit of throwing in your support NOW. If you're offering, say 30% off what will be the retail price, then people who wouldn't buy now, but might do so later will see the benefit of pledging during the Kickstarter.

2.-To re-assure those pledgers who are already offering support that they are genuinely getting a premium for their support. If you can get a Leviathan for $89 next year, then why are all these people working so hard to promote your project (with their money AND evangelizing efforts).

3.-To give an idea of what the prices might be like in the future, so that people can better judge if they really want to get into the Iron-Core line as a game in its own right. If we have an idea of what prices might be like a year from now, two years from now, we can better decide if we want to go that extra mile to ensure that there IS a year from now, two years from now for Dream-Forge Games.

I'm sure there might be a variety of reasons that you might not want or be able to provide the kind of pricing info that I'm requesting here, but I really think it would be beneficial. So please let us know what you think of the above (I'm speaking only on my own behalf, but I suspect other supporters have similar questions).

Thanks for all your hard work and engagement with the Wargaming Community. Keep up the good fight, and hopefully we'll all make your dream of a great company and our dreams of a great new gaming alternative into reality!

Grendel/Beowulf gun unlocked!! It's going to be an exciting run to $100K, with stretches so close together . We're $3.75K from the next one now!

cartharsix, Mark has mentioned that he doesn't know exactly what he'll be charging for these yet, but it may be more than $89. And that's without at least the free extra Vulcan when we hit 100K (not sure if Excalibur comes on the sprue or not).

The higher pledge levels are getting this beast for $75 with a free Vulcan. It's a pretty fantastic deal, I think.

Pasting the gun images here for folks to see without clicking







And, of course, in the middle of that is the 4.5" tall Crusader, and the full-size Mortis. Wow

Im personally not to concerned with what the price will be done the road, just as long as they dont sell these to the masses for less then what I'm paying for them. I'd be more then happy to hand over my monies and call it a pre order

Yes, and people getting together to pledge for it now is what enables it to be made in the first place!

the HEL cannon just drips sexy, cant put my finger on what I like so much about it...but i NEED it

I believe the estimated MSRP I saw was $90. So no 'discount', but you are getting:

a)it now (well october)
b)free shipping
c)extra CCW
d)Better looking power plant (or just a spare for those of you who like the smoke stacks)
e)free second assault cannon arm (because do you really think this isn't going to hit 100k)

Possibly more that hasn't been seen yet.

I was happy to see the Crusader at $90. Its a great kit, and thats a great price for it. Not sure why people are so demanding of getting more for less from a very small company like this.

the HEL cannon just drips sexy, cant put my finger on what I like so much about it...but i NEED it

I quite like the artillery cannon. But I'd like to see it shoulder mounted with an assault cannon and a fist, or even two fists. I cant afford to make that happen soon sadly (damn you again reaper). But someday, that will be my Crusader.

Justyn wrote:
I believe the estimated MSRP I saw was $90. So no 'discount', but you are getting:

I was happy to see the Crusader at $90. Its a great kit, and thats a great price for it. Not sure why people are so demanding of getting more for less from a very small company like this.

Reaper effect....

Reaper is in a different position entirely. They are a very well known mini company. They have the capability to take their 3.4 million make some molds, take a minor hit on producing a ton of models for the backers, and make their money back over the few months afterward. Small companies like dreamforge, they can't take hits so well. And with a much smaller customer base, it takes longer to recoup them. I suspect he won't see profit on those extra arms for a year or two.

I doubt MSRP is going to be $90. My guess would be in the $100-$120 range. That's still dirt cheap for what you're getting but since most people aren't going to be buying these in bulk you don't want your MSRP to low. We'll see. Either way I'm cool with the price of the models so it doesn't bother me much.

Justyn wrote:
Reaper is in a different position entirely. They are a very well known mini company. They have the capability to take their 3.4 million make some molds, take a minor hit on producing a ton of models for the backers, and make their money back over the few months afterward. Small companies like dreamforge, they can't take hits so well. And with a much smaller customer base, it takes longer to recoup them. I suspect he won't see profit on those extra arms for a year or two.

All im suggesting is the average person doesnt see it this way...the just see MOAR FREE STUFF

I plan on getting both the Nova Cannon and HEL cannon, those will make perfect weapons to use this thing in 40K as a Warhound

I'm not clamoring for MOAR FREE STUFF or an unrealistically cheap price now. I think for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post, that more transparency *IF POSSIBLE* might help encourage more people to jump on the bandwagon, or if already there, up their support.

I'm trying hard to save some pennies for 1 titan, 2 arms, 20 troopers, and a shortie if all become available. But that's a large chunk of change (especially with 6th ed. coming out right now). I hope I can get those funds in to Mark now, to help this along, but it can be tough to put together that amount of money for a single purchase.

-C6

 catharsix wrote:
At first, I balked at the arm prices too, but Mark's explanation makes sense.

I think that all of us hope that this is more than just a one-shot chance to get a cheap titan and some cool sci-fi infantry. I think we all would love to see a truly viable company rise out of the efforts and MONEY that this Kickstarter campaign is generating. If that means that Mark's gotta sell arms at $25, then so be it. It is justified if it means that, three years down the road, I can go down to my FLGS, or to the Warstore.com, and purchase some Iron-Core miniatures, not worrying if the line will disappear in 6 months. Or, even better, that I can purchase an Iron-Core army set, and so can my buddy, and we can sit down and play an Iron-Core game (and not just use the awesome and reasonably priced models as proxies for GW figures).

All that said, I would like to pose a question that I am not sure has been fully addressed. Usually with Kickstarters, part of the premium that early supporters get is that the merchandise received at different pledge levels is more expensive post-kickstarter, that is to say, your pledge is a kind of discounted pre-order of something that will be available later from the company at regular, which is to say somewhat higher, prices.

This brings me to my question. Mark/NoseGoblin:

Can you give us an idea of what the prices on some of these products will be POST-Kickstarter? Or, put another way, can you give us an idea of what kind of premium supporters are receiving by supporting now.

I know this might be a bit much to ask. I do so for several reasons:

1.-To try to drive home the benefit of throwing in your support NOW. If you're offering, say 30% off what will be the retail price, then people who wouldn't buy now, but might do so later will see the benefit of pledging during the Kickstarter.

2.-To re-assure those pledgers who are already offering support that they are genuinely getting a premium for their support. If you can get a Leviathan for $89 next year, then why are all these people working so hard to promote your project (with their money AND evangelizing efforts).

3.-To give an idea of what the prices might be like in the future, so that people can better judge if they really want to get into the Iron-Core line as a game in its own right. If we have an idea of what prices might be like a year from now, two years from now, we can better decide if we want to go that extra mile to ensure that there IS a year from now, two years from now for Dream-Forge Games.

I'm sure there might be a variety of reasons that you might not want or be able to provide the kind of pricing info that I'm requesting here, but I really think it would be beneficial. So please let us know what you think of the above (I'm speaking only on my own behalf, but I suspect other supporters have similar questions).

Thanks for all your hard work and engagement with the Wargaming Community. Keep up the good fight, and hopefully we'll all make your dream of a great company and our dreams of a great new gaming alternative into reality!

I am pretty transparent when it comes to such things. The truth of the matter is, I don’t have the retail established. I know the MSRP will be higher than the Kickstarte, but I do not have a % number for you.
It really depends on how much debt I am carrying at the time this project closes, and what the market will bear. If you are wondering, if you will be able to find these for less six months after the Kickstarter is shipped… sure it is possible. When they enter the supply chain and hit the retailers, they will likely have a 25% margin to play with. How deep will they discount it? I have no clue… Are you getting your monies worth here? Well that’s a judgment call. Do you want these to be made or not? Is free shipping within the US and the free items enough for you? I cannot answer that.
I understand where you are coming from but unfortunately, I do not have the answers you’re looking for.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 catharsix wrote:
I'm not clamoring for MOAR FREE STUFF or an unrealistically cheap price now. I think for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post, that more transparency *IF POSSIBLE* might help encourage more people to jump on the bandwagon, or if already there, up their support.

I'm trying hard to save some pennies for 1 titan, 2 arms, 20 troopers, and a shortie if all become available. But that's a large chunk of change (especially with 6th ed. coming out right now). I hope I can get those funds in to Mark now, to help this along, but it can be tough to put together that amount of money for a single purchase.

-C6

If you approach this from a purely strategic purchase, then grabbing up the weapon arms will yield you something that will likely not be available for some time.

I'm not clamouring for free stuff either. I'm clamouring for those heavy infantry...

I'm not even looking at the troops yet. My money is all going to the Crusader on this one. I'm a terrible photoshoper but this will not be a cheap conversion lol.

Heey, I had that idea literally moments ago, I say go for it!

well thats 3 added combat arms on there...might as well shop a 4th in there!

yeah and a second crusader to use the 4th arm..... thats where it starts getting expensive lol.

On another note. NoseGoblin just out of curiosity why did the plastic kits end up being smaller than the resin versions? Not complaining or anything like that, just curious about the logic of it. Frankly they will fit in better with my other large scale 'Mechs at 8.5" anyway.

Can you make a 3D mockup pic of a mortis with 2 nova cannons? or a mortis with any of those weapons really..

Which reminds me, will there be left and right handed versions of the guns? Or do they work either way?

He already said some need left and right hand versions, some don't. They specify right in their descriptions.

Damn you, Mondragon! I said a Mortis MAYBE and that was it! Now you go and pull this uber-sexy weapon arms stunt... *sigh and starts shopping*

I see what catharsix is saying; it's a common trait that people like to realize a "value" on their purchases and get leery when they can't see where they're getting ahead of the pack. Places like the WarStore base their business model around this tendency after all.

While Mark can't predict the future while delivering the awesome to us I decided to whip up some comparisons to the well-known purveyor of plastic goodies, GW. Doing this mainly from memory so apologies for any oversights. Please let me know where I screwed up and I'll correct it. For reference this is using base prices and in USD.

Infantry:


Heavy Weapons:


Big Frikkin' Walkers:


Building a full army:


Do I advise people throwing tons and tons of money at Mark? Well it'd be awesome if you could, but this was mainly to show where this product sits both quality and price-wise in comparison to "the big boys".

 Necros wrote:
Which reminds me, will there be left and right handed versions of the guns? Or do they work either way?

I think it's only the chaingun and the claw that are arm-specific. You might need to choose which side as you're assembling the arm, but all the others can be built as either a left arm or a right arm.

Justyn wrote:
yeah and a second crusader to use the 4th arm..... thats where it starts getting expensive lol.

On another note. NoseGoblin just out of curiosity why did the plastic kits end up being smaller than the resin versions? Not complaining or anything like that, just curious about the logic of it. Frankly they will fit in better with my other large scale 'Mechs at 8.5" anyway.

Well, a 15mm version should be about 4.5" tall I made the other resin kits 5.5 because of the material I was working with. Some of the parts lit the stack tops were too thin when I reduced it to 4.5" for I had to make them larger or the damn thinks would break The platic at this scale should be fine as long as your not thewing them around...

for the 4th arm just get a second giant cannon for his back!

 Krinsath wrote:
Damn you, Mondragon! I said a Mortis MAYBE and that was it! Now you go and pull this uber-sexy weapon arms stunt... *sigh and starts shopping*

I see what catharsix is saying; it's a common trait that people like to realize a "value" on their purchases and get leery when they can't see where they're getting ahead of the pack. Places like the WarStore base their business model around this tendency after all.

While Mark can't predict the future while delivering the awesome to us I decided to whip up some comparisons to the well-known purveyor of plastic goodies, GW. Doing this mainly from memory so apologies for any oversights. Please let me know where I screwed up and I'll correct it.

Infantry:

Spoiler:

Imperial Guard:
Cost: $29 for 10
Number of weapon options: 4 (CCW/Pistol, Lasgun, Flamer, Grenade Launcher)
Number of specialized kit: 1 (Voxcaster)
Ammo and Misc. Bitz: Yes
Number of heads: 12 - most helmeted

Space Marines:
Cost: $37.25 for 10
Number of weapon options: 4 (CCW/Pistol, Bolters, Missile Launcher, Flamer...based on images, not sure if GW added more special ones later)
Number of specialized kit: 1 (Auspex)
Ammo and Misc. Bitz: Yes
Number of Heads: 12 - most helmeted

DreamForge Kickstarter:
Cost: $39 for 23 (20 troopers + 3 MULEs) - Maximum
Number of weapon options: 5 (Rifle, SMG, AT rocket, Pistol, SMG with Grenade Launcher...I didn't count the rifle-to-LMG option)
Number of specialed kit: 2 (Field computer, binoculars)
Ammo and Misc. Bitz: Yes
Number of heads: 34 (!!) - Majority helmeted, but options for field hats and officer's caps included

So the kits are clearly comparable in terms of modelling potential. Apples-to-apples price comparison on model count yields:

$39 (DFKS) < $58 (GW-IG) < $74.50 (GW-SM)

Even ordering from the War Store yields:

$39 (DFKS) < $46.4 (GW-IG) < $59.60 (GW-SM)

Summary:
The accessories that make the kit fantastic will likely be sold separately based on some of Mark's comments, so if you want to get a great-looking and highly-customizable army, the Eisenkern Stormtroopers in the Kickstarter are *very* compelling. Quality of look is in the eye of the beholder, but on the objectively measured features they stand up quite well to the major player in this market. Pledging more boxes lowers your price tilting this even MORE in DFG's favor.

Heavy Weapons:

Spoiler:

Imperial Guard:
Cost: $39.50 for 9 models (counting guns), $31.60 from WarStore
Number of weapon options: 5 (Missile Launcher, Mortar, Autocannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolter)
Multiple weapons of the same type from one box: Yes
Ammo and Misc. Bitz: Yes

DreamForge KickStarter
Cost: $33 for 12 models (counting guns)
Number of weapon options: 3 (Light cannon, AA quad, Mortar)
Multiple weapons of the same type form one box: No ( :( )
Ammo and Misc. Bitz: Yes

Summary:
On their own, this one is not as much of a slam-dunk. However, I think if you like the look of the Stormtroopers these are still a solid buy. If you want to field them as IG, you can pull the spotters off the bases and put them with an AT trooper from the "base" box and viola! A missile launcher team. This will also pull out a few troopers to make command sections, so if that's the route you're looking to go with them as a stand-in it will help make that happen naturally.

Big Frikkin' Walkers:

Spoiler:

GW - Ork Stompa
Cost: $115, 92 from WarStore
Height: ~9"
Weapon swaps: If you're a clever modeller
Additional Cost per Arm: N/A

FW - Warhound Titan
Cost: $502 (at present exchange rates)
Height: 10.5"
Weapon Swaps: If you're a somewhat good modeller.
Additional Cost per Arm: $57

DFKS - Crusader
Cost: $89
Height: 8.5"
Weapon Swaps: Built into the design
Additional Cost per Arm: $25 (assuming you don't want one of the freebies)

Summary:
Yes, they're a bit shorter than the two competitors but GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY! You can buy 6 Crusaders and 2 extra arms for the cost of a Warhound on this KickStarter! Not sure WHY you would do this, but it does illustrate the disparity. The Ork Stompa compares much more favorably, unless you don't like the Ork design aesthetic (which would likely be the case for Chaos and Imperial players). It is still technically more expensive even from a discount retailer. Again another win for Dreamforge.

Building a full army:

Spoiler:

For the sake of argument, the build is 115 soldiers (2 full platoons of 50 + 3 command sections) with 12 heavy weapons teams and one walker. We will pretend the DreadKnight can be used with the IG directly to add a walker and also pretend it's on the same scale as a Crusader.

GW:
10 boxes of IG troopers, 1 command squad, 4 heavy weapons boxes, dreadknight = (29x11) + (25x1) + (39.5x4) + 53.75 = $555.75 or $440.60 online.

DFKS:
6 boxes of troopers ($29.33 ea. at that pledge level), 3 heavy weapons teams (refer to earlier section about missile launcher teams...120 troopers - 3 for missile teams = 117 still), 1 crusader = (6x29.33) + (3x33) + 89 = $363

Summary:
Obviously GW is a very high price point, which skews this comparison somewhat. However, given that the kits are on-par with GW product, this Kickstarter looks to be an excellent value. The only loss in the equation is you can't spam a particular heavy weapon, which IMO is not worth an extra $90 over discounted price. If we unlock the smaller crusader and it has a lower price point, again the comparison only goes into DFG's favor more.

Do I advise people throwing tons and tons of money at Mark? Well it'd be awesome if you could, but this was mainly to show where this product sits both quality and price-wise in comparison to "the big boys".

Wow! thats an amazing comparison!

I just upped my pledge for a set of four arms. Now we only have to get to the level of the HEL cannon, and I am golden.

Hi

Been watching this for awhile and tempted to get in on it, but really want to get an idea on the scale, I know you say 8.5 inch or 15mm but I just cannot visualize that. Any chance you can take a picture of one of these beside a gw dreadnaught or stompa or something else I can use to get scale.