Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You know, I followed it from the time before it even went live (loved Dreamforge's stuff for 10 years), and I've been checking it every couple of hours to see where it was at. I'm glad it made well past its goal and I'm looking forward to finally seeing the Dreamforge models as a regular staple in game stores.

That said, am I seriously the only one who was very disappointed in this KS? It was all over the place, rewards were shifted around and moved, and some of it was downright confusing for some folks (phased shipping?). To me as a backer, I just didn't feel there is anything to make me want to pledge even though I did so early on. The only exclusive thing in the entire KS is the shadokesh handler, which everyone gets. The problem with this is, the model doesn't even go with the theme of the kickstarter, which is all Eisenkern.

The few rewards there are, are all over the place as well. Capacitor Coolers, Excalibur Blade, and an extra Vulkan. Ok, those are neat, but hardly exclusive to the kickstarter. Infantry get a single accessory sprue, again, hardly KS exclusive. The entire KS is really just a bunch of pre-orders for stuff that won't be available for up to 9-12 months from now.

Sure, if you HAVE to have some of it before all your friends, you can pledge for it. Everything past the 30k funding goal is gravy. And don't tell me "No, it has allowed Mark to make more and more stuff". True, but the project was for the Crusader Leviathan, not everything else under the sun. It's great he can make a bunch more minis, but here's the meat of it.

Why should people pledge when they can just wait and buy it off of Warstore or their FLGS when it becomes available? It's cheaper if you order it through the KS. Oh yea? How do you know? It can't be much more expensive retail or whats the point of competing against other companies who have long established histories in this market? Bash GW all you want, I can still find a game of 40k anywhere I go and most places might let you proxy a model or two, maybe a squad, but not an entire army. Certainly very few tournaments will let you get away with it.

From the beginning, there were suggestions to add things to the pledge option, things like:
1. Have your name credited in the Iron-Core rulebook as a backer
2. Create a character for use in the game
3. Painted sets of models
4. Lunch with Mark / learn first hand how he comes up with the models
5. Ect, ect, ect...

None of this would have cost anything (except 'maybe' the painting thing) and would have opened up all kinds of new pledges and made us backers feel a bit special. As it is, there is nothing in this project that waiting wont solve. I know I dropped my pledge from $240 down to $32, simply to throw a little bit into this and get some heavy assault troops a year from now. It's really a shame, such cool things could have come from this, but for now I'll just wait till my game store can order it.

I'm sure I'm the vast minority, since 99% of those backing it have been too wide-eyed with "Oooo...look at the shinies".

Nah, not wide eyed, just supporting a great company. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not after exclusives- I'm after making the creation of awesome plastic models possible. The fact I get a quantity discount for ordering 3 boxes of troops, the free acessory sprues, and the free Shadokesh is all gravy.

And my stuff will be delivered in November

For APC awesomeness, I can wait till next year, and would love to order them now.

So while you have every right to that opinion, I think you're missing out, pure and simple. Mark has a different style- just because he didn't put up any "lunch with creator" pledges doesn't mean he didn't put heart and soul into this KS.

To anyone else- please don't flame, alternate views are always good to hear, however much I disagree in this case.

While I agree that the KS does seem a more than a bit cobbled together it was only because us, the backers, asked for more options in the first place! Had he just stuck with the Leviathans I know I wouldn't have pledged and there are probably many in the same boat as me.

You have to remember that Mark is genuinely using the KS as a way to fund these kits whereas the larger companies (looking at you Mantic!) are using it as a fast way to get their product out into the world. They have the resources to offer all the stretches and extras that they have.

Yes it is just a big preorder. I am fine with that and if I get a hefty discount off the retail and some free goodies then I am even happier!

140K and 155K stretch goal placeholders are on the main page! I think we can hit those... I bet APC is 155, I wonder what 140 is? Or, hopefully, I have them backwards

IMO with just 3 days left Id let it ride, or add a small but very cool final goal...a character mini maybe.

I would do the APC independent from the kickstarters.

If I were to make a future kickstarter schedule Id go faction specific. Next Id do Shadokesh. After that either Brotherhood or Protectorate, as church and Russian stuff is pretty popular. Then back to a xeno, the Dhar-Hazier, then back to humans.

I do completely agree that some character/special minis in either metal or resin would be awesome. Relatively small investment on Dreamforges end so it wouldnt interfere with the plastics, but would surely be popular as people love special minis.

 RiTides wrote:
Nah, not wide eyed, just supporting a great company. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not after exclusives- I'm after making the creation of awesome plastic models possible. The fact I get a quantity discount for ordering 3 boxes of troops, the free acessory sprues, and the free Shadokesh is all gravy.

And my stuff will be delivered in November

For APC awesomeness, I can wait till next year, and would love to order them now.

So while you have every right to that opinion, I think you're missing out, pure and simple. Mark has a different style- just because he didn't put up any "lunch with creator" pledges doesn't mean he didn't put heart and soul into this KS.

To anyone else- please don't flame, alternate views are always good to hear, however much I disagree in this case.

Fully and 150% agree with you on this, I backed this kickstarter because I believe dreamforge is a great company that could put out an amazing product. I dont need any fancy exclusives or credit for anything, just knowing that I helped in a small way to get some awesome models made is more then enough for me.

Yeah, I might be dirt broke right now, but this really is one diamond of a kickstarter.

For one simple reason:

There is currently not a single company other than GW making a large range of high-quality hard plastic sprues for sci-fi gaming.

The ambition is amazing too, none of this "There isn't a market for big vehicles in hard plastic/ its too difficult/ its too expensive" etc, just a straight up "I'm making a plastic titan". Good raw talent + "can do" attitude = win.

 kaiohx wrote:
...

I can see your point and can understand the frustration as the KS evolved (mutated, even) as it was picking up steam. It's almost like this campaign could have been split into two separate ones.

Yes, it was definitely run as more of a "pre-order" generator and, really, I can't find fault with that if that is how Mark wants to proceed. He's been very careful and deliberate about what he's done to date (prior to KS) and I expect him to continue with that analytical and logical approach moving forward. I don't expect him to over-promise and I don't expect he would compromise future release goals by giving away endless freebies like some of the other KS campaigns we've seen recently.

That being said, I agree, some little- or no-expense pledge levels would have been nice. Who knows, maybe one of those last stretch goal place-holders will be for a cool free character to drive up pledges as the KS winds down.

 ironicsilence wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Nah, not wide eyed, just supporting a great company. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not after exclusives- I'm after making the creation of awesome plastic models possible. The fact I get a quantity discount for ordering 3 boxes of troops, the free acessory sprues, and the free Shadokesh is all gravy.

And my stuff will be delivered in November

For APC awesomeness, I can wait till next year, and would love to order them now.

So while you have every right to that opinion, I think you're missing out, pure and simple. Mark has a different style- just because he didn't put up any "lunch with creator" pledges doesn't mean he didn't put heart and soul into this KS.

To anyone else- please don't flame, alternate views are always good to hear, however much I disagree in this case.

Fully and 150% agree with you on this, I backed this kickstarter because I believe dreamforge is a great company that could put out an amazing product. I dont need any fancy exclusives or credit for anything, just knowing that I helped in a small way to get some awesome models made is more then enough for me.

Ill also agree. I only wish I had more $$$ to put towards it.

A new stretch goal at 140K has been posted

but we can't see it as the image is broken
(marks working on it)

Edit: It's the APC, but the image is still broken, no details on price yet

The APC !!! =D

Crap, my wallet

 kaiohx wrote:
The few rewards there are, are all over the place as well. Capacitor Coolers, Excalibur Blade, and an extra Vulkan. Ok, those are neat, but hardly exclusive to the kickstarter. Infantry get a single accessory sprue, again, hardly KS exclusive. The entire KS is really just a bunch of pre-orders for stuff that won't be available for up to 9-12 months from now.

If you follow Dream Forge that long, you should know better. As said before, all those established companies misusing kickstarter as hidden preorders may cloud the vision, when a project really in need appears. Mark simply has not the funds to pay for all the expensive plastic moulds. No kickstarter, no products, simple as that. So people like us jump in and pay several months in advance, satisfied that these products will see the light (and probably getting a discount). Doesn't need a crappy T-Shirt to pull us in. Or huge 50% discounts. Because we believe in the project and trust the man behind it to do the best he can.

and all for $46, where a Land Raider looks to come in at $55
(well converted from the UK price anyway) without any crew


and if that comes with the driver, passenger and 10 crew as Mark was discussing it's a pretty spectacular bargain

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


and if that comes with the driver, passenger and 10 crew as Mark was discussing it's a pretty spectacular bargain

I missed that part!

So... does it?

$39 apiece if you get 3 or more

It's as I predicted! Mark is getting another $100 from me tonight. Shifting funds away from support weapons, which I'll hope to buy at the end of the year, and into APCs. I am in for 3 boxes of infantry, 3 extra accessory sprues, and 7 APCs... a few bucks shy of $400.

Man, those things are beautiful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alph, he said so in the comments (seated troopers) we should see if he can confirm, though.

I got two of my fellow game club in and we're in for 3 Leviathans, 4 additional 28mm weapons, 5 15mm Leviathans, and 12 15mm weapons. Almost $600....and we might get a few more takers from my gaming group. Here's hoping

Buncha guys in my club jumped in. I had to lower my pledge and just get some troopers though, funds too tight right now :( But they'll make some nice Stormtroopers soon. Gonna most likely do a full mech guard army when the APC is released.

Mark should update the calculator to include shipping costs for the APC.

A couple of bits pulled of the comments about the APC

1. Just an FYI on the size of the APC The Eisenkern APC is pretty close to a Landraider in size, 2.25" high 3.25" wide and 7" long. Large but not too bad I may be able to tighten it up a bit but I do not see it being more than - .25" in any direction

2. Will the APC include passengers? I suppose a driver and gunner are a given with the kit but it would be nice to be able to field one with a full compliment. The kit will have all the crew and trooper compliments Driver, gunner/Comms and 10 Stormtroopers all in seated positions.

you'd need to check this is still the case, but I'd think it will be


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Mark should update the calculator to include shipping costs for the APC.

Marks just posted it's a large box, and will use the Leviathan shipping costs (but I'm sure the calculator will be updated)

WEEEE!!!

Promptly added 5 APCs to my pledge... Now to hope that the project reaches at least 140k to unlock the sweet rides!

 Kroothawk wrote:

 kaiohx wrote:
The few rewards there are, are all over the place as well. Capacitor Coolers, Excalibur Blade, and an extra Vulkan. Ok, those are neat, but hardly exclusive to the kickstarter. Infantry get a single accessory sprue, again, hardly KS exclusive. The entire KS is really just a bunch of pre-orders for stuff that won't be available for up to 9-12 months from now.

If you follow Dream Forge that long, you should know better. As said before, all those established companies misusing kickstarter as hidden preorders may cloud the vision, when a project really in need appears. Mark simply has not the funds to pay for all the expensive plastic moulds. No kickstarter, no products, simple as that. So people like us jump in and pay several months in advance, satisfied that these products will see the light (and probably getting a discount). Doesn't need a crappy T-Shirt to pull us in. Or huge 50% discounts. Because we believe in the project and trust the man behind it to do the best he can.

VERY well said.

While the APC is very nice I find it's not tempting me. I'm in for twenty assault troopers, four arms and a pair of Crusaders (the Mortis is cool but I like the heavier armored look of the Crusaders better) what is tempting me is a box of Valkir and maybe some support weapon gunners... but since in the end I really am using these as "counts as" for now I will force myself to refrain... but also cause this is beating my wallet with a rape stick XD.

Interested to see what the 155k goal is though, every backer getting an Eisenkern special character or something would be really cool.

Added 5 APC's too to my pledge!!
It looks awsome! And really has that modern/retro german WW II feel to it he aims for for the Eisenkern faction in his Iron Core game! Cool!

So, after predicting the APC for another stretch goal (though I'm no psychic, it seemed the only remaining item we've seen that wasn't available) I'm happy it's available. I presume that Mark isn't throwing stuff in that he can't produce, or that he won't make perhaps a little money on (or at least be able to put money to cover existing debts incurred in these projects).

That said, I think criticism of this Kickstarter is a little off-base. It was a little wonky, and unpredictable, but I think that most of this was because Mark responded to pledger requests. People wanted infantry - Done. People wanted smaller Leviathans - Done. People (like me!) wanted the Mortis - Done. Everything people have wanted has been made available (at least potentially, but I think we'll see the APC unlock at this rate).

Perhaps Mark has been *TOO* accommodating of pledger demands, and I think that is the real reason that the Kickstarter wasn't more streamlined and slick. I think that this provides a really fantastic platform from which to launch a future Kickstarter, and the Iron-Core line in general. Mark's probably learned quite alot from this, and can better plan and tweak future Kickstarters to really maximize the potential of his ideas and work, as well as the potential of an eager and now expanded fan-base for Iron-Core.

I think it bears repeating that Dream-Forge is the only non-GW company to have really awesome-looking PLASTIC kits, at really reasonable prices. I never though I'd own a "Titan" scale model. But for $90? And one that looks equally as cool (if not cooler) as the Forgeworld ones, but in PLASTIC? I mean, everyone else has already said it, but all the rest is gravy. Delicious, inexpensive, awesome-looking gravy, and you can feel good about supporting an independent company and all-around nice guy. What's not to love?

-C6

Car needs new brakes and an axle replacing so what do I do? Buy a dreamforge APC of course!

I have a strong feeling the next stretch will be some variant of the APC chassis, command vehicle or AA car, one can only hope!

Well, if we hit $140k Ill probably have to get in on that APC.

Kroothawk wrote:If you follow Dream Forge that long, you should know better.

I should know what exactly? I'm not sure of your context here. Until now, Dreamforge has been limited in how many models that can be produced, that's it.

Kroothawk wrote:As said before, all those established companies misusing kickstarter as hidden preorders may cloud the vision, when a project really in need appears.

He's partnered up with WFG who does bunches of minis for many companies these days. You act like hes making each and every sprue by hand.

Kroothawk wrote:Mark simply has not the funds to pay for all the expensive plastic moulds. No kickstarter, no products, simple as that.

He hit the 30k goal of the KS a few days into it. EVERYTHING else is extra. Maybe you forgot that. Again, partnered with WFG, see above.

Kroothawk wrote:So people like us jump in and pay several months in advance, satisfied that these products will see the light (and probably getting a discount). Doesn't need a crappy T-Shirt to pull us in.

Oh yea? Those 'crappy t-shirts' are what draw people. The little bits of extras are what separate high-grossing kickstarters from ones who could have potentially been great. Lets take Relic Knights, shall we? All told, they probably have less overall sprues designed than this entire project does, since many of the factions are probably on the same sprues. Is it because their game is better? I have no idea, but I doubt it since the majority of the people are pledging this for 40k. Are their models better? Hrmm...depends on if you like that style, but they aren't anywhere near as configurable.
Then why have they brought in 8x the amount of revenue this has? Because of a few simple extras, that's it. All their 'extra' figs are probably on one or two sprues as well, and will be cut as needed, because I seriously doubt they made a single mold for each and every one of those 'extras'. Does this cost extra? Probably a little, but probably not as much as you think. Coolmini isn't exactly the juggernaut some other companies are.

Also, you didn't even read my post, because I stated the 'extras' I suggested wouldn't have cost him really anything and would have most likely added a big incentive to people.

Kroothawk wrote:Or huge 50% discounts.

Really? Cause many, MANY people have claimed just how awesome it is to get these at such a great deal and that's why they are doing it.

Kroothawk wrote:Because we believe in the project and trust the man behind it to do the best he can.

And who said I don't? Whether I pledged $2000 on this or just $1, I'm still a financial backer and as such, I'm allowed to have my own view on it. Maybe in whatever country your from the people are all as giving and altruistic as you are, but here in the US, some of us are still capitalists. No one pledges money without getting something in return, that's the name of the game with kickstarter. You aren't donating your money free of charge, so don't try to play the saint card.

Those that say "well I'm glad he put in the infantry, apc, mortis, minis, ect... or I wouldn't have backed him". So yea, you don't get to criticize either, cause your just as guilty of being selfish. Everyone wants something and that's all I saw this entire time. That's why this KS was all over the place instead of being focused. "Mark, make this and I'll buy 50 of them" "Oh I hope we hit the X goal, cause ill sell my firstborn to pay for it." Yea....ok. And apparently I'm the bad guy for wanting this to do better than it did by suggesting a few extras. God forbid the backers feel a little special they helped get this off the ground.

And yet no one has still really answered the question: Why pledge now when we can wait and get it in a few months from a retailer? Because then the models won't get made? Sure they will, it'll just take longer and maybe take another project to fund. Because we believe in Mark? Ok...again...we hit the 30k goal, I'd say that's some good backing. No, its GOTTA HAVE IT ALL NOW NOW NOW! Quite the demanding lot, aren't you?

*Sighs* As stated before: I'm glad Mark got the funding for the whole range of models. It's about time. Its just a shame that it could have been so much more lucrative. And no, I didn't support Relic Knights. I like how their models look, but I have no use for them beyond the Gabe & Tycho models. This is the first KS I have ever backed (though Planetary Annihilation got some money since). Do I think Mark is a great guy and makes awesome mini's? Yup, but when dealing with income for hobbies, you have to pick and choose, and in the end there just hasn't been enough incentive for me to pledge near as much as I had originally. I guess I'm just a bit more capitalistic and outspoken than the rest of you.

Congrats Mark, Dreamforge, and WFG! I look forward to seeing your models gracing the shelves of FLGS everywhere!

Ooh! I like what he just put out about the free PDF of the completed rules. I hadn't heard about that! Very nice little extra... *glares at other game company that charges $75 for their rule book* I'm excited about participating in the development group as well.

Fluff writers unite!

Well, adding 6 APCs to my pledge didn't quite take me over the $1000 mark as I had expected, but I'm damn close.

I'd really love to see the APC done up in all kinds of not-chimera variants.. Hydra, Medusa, Griphon? gimmie!

And also an upgrade kit to make it a half track instead of 6 wheels.