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Dysartes wrote:

By the by, if something is the next version, it can in no way be the predecessor...

Whoops. Meant successor.

Skull Cannon -- which fires flaming skulls across the battelfield -- is S8, range 36" APdoesn'tgetthrougpowerarmour.

Fly beasties are poisoned 3+ attacks, with I think 3A and W each.

.. seems they might be "jet pack cavalry" ..? Not quite sure how that works as such or if they have to choose a type or what ?

Demon Princes appear to he HQs.

There are various "loci" which you can buy for herlads, characters etc etc. These are all of varying cost and power....

... wait for it !...

.... and ( some ?) ... here we go..... ..... let you roll on chart(s) to see what powers or abilities they generate !

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Just wondering, has there been any rumours at all of Daemons getting a flyer of some kind?

Daemons have flying MCs like Bloodthirsters that, if the new stats are true, can take out land raiders with vector strike. In short, they don't need fliers.

So, we're saying that GW DOESN'T have a plan to push fliers down everyones throat? I'm disappointed...

Cinematic!

Jet pack cavalry, I can see it useful to be able to pick what to use for charges and whatnot.

 reds8n wrote:
Skull Cannon -- which fires flaming skulls across the battelfield -- is S8, range 36" APdoesn'tgetthrougpowerarmour.

Fly beasties are poisoned 3+ attacks, with I think 3A and W each.

.. seems they might be "jet pack cavalry" ..? Not quite sure how that works as such or if they have to choose a type or what ?

Both Jump and Jet Pack units are not a full unit type, but rather just added onto another full unit type. To this point we've only had Jump/Jet Pack Infantry and Jump Monstrous Creatures (Dreadknight with a Personal Teleporter), but given that GW made this change in 6th edition I figured it would only be time before they made another unit type into Jump or Jet Pack.

In the case of Jet Pack Cavalry, the things they gain from having Jet Packs would be:

They can move using their Jet Pack in the movement phase, in which case they treat difficult they end in as dangerous (which they do already for being cavalry, so big deal there), but they get to ignore terrain they move over and can also move up things vertically easier.

In the assault phase, they can also choose to make the 2D6" thrust move instead of charging.

They also get the Bulky, Deep Strike and Relentless special rules.


So the rules for Jet Pack Cavalry looks to me like it works without issue.

If the Nurgle drones really are jet-pack cavalry and not jet-bikes and their rules are any good, then I'm getting some Plague Toads. Plaguebearers riding giant toads bouncing all over the table sound hilarious and they are much better sculpts than the new flying anteaters.

Anyone have some of these? What size fantasy base do they come on and what size 40k base would they fit on?

Also shame both come in packs of three when everyone is going to want to run them in units of seven. You'd need to run 21 of the damn things to not waste any models. Don't think I'll be doing that. So I'll have to be unfluffy and have one unit of six.

For those folks who responded to the Mat Ward picture that was quoted, I found that on /tg/. It turns out that someone trolled me big time. The actual author is Phil Kelly:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ar4YFfYsSgg/USXdMewlOeI/AAAAAAAAT68/jZWp-nVnSOI/s400/IMG_2224.JPG

I want to seriously injure the man who trolled me like that....*grrrrrrr*

ChaosDog wrote:
If the Nurgle drones really are jet-pack cavalry and not jet-bikes and their rules are any good, then I'm getting some Plague Toads. Plaguebearers riding giant toads bouncing all over the table sound hilarious and they are much better sculpts than the new flying anteaters.

Anyone have some of these? What size fantasy base do they come on and what size 40k base would they fit on?

Also shame both come in packs of three when everyone is going to want to run them in units of seven. You'd need to run 21 of the damn things to not waste any models. Don't think I'll be doing that. So I'll have to be unfluffy and have one unit of six.

Now I want a Chaos Daemons army purely so I can spam plague toad conversions. Excellent idea.

 pretre wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 pretre wrote:
... than the 3.5 Chaos codex broke 40k.

Yeah, k, that never happened.

Oh come on... It was hugely unbalanced.

Yes, in some ways, the C:CSM 3.5 was unbalanced relative to the other codices of the time.

However, it was also incredibly interesting to play with, offering a wide variety of different builds that catered to different play styles. GW should have used that codex as a model upon which to base every subsequent codex, thereby giving every other army a similar degree of flexibility and variety; there is a certain balance provided when everything is "broken."

Instead, GW decided to make the next C:CSM so bland and boring as to be an afterthought for most players.

 wowsmash wrote:
Like I said before makes since to have him do it again. He probly knows all the problem areas he would like to tweek for better balance. Looking forward to the book.

Except that thus far, he hasn't produced a single even semi-balanced Fantasy book;

6th edition Wood Elves: Were pretty much top of the pile when they came out due to constant tree-surfing of Waywatchers with their Killing Blow arrows and/or Treemen who were almost imposible to shoot if you didn't have access to a cannon. (so, Empire, Dwarfs & Skaven could shoot it down) Combined with how easy it was for WE's to get flank charges and that you didn't need 1+ ranks to break enemy ranks, WE's suddenly became a by-word for 'cheese'.
Then 7th came along and nerfed them into the ground. (8th simply continued to beat on an already dead horse)

7th edition Orcs & Gobbos: Mat doesn't like the greenies. He didn't really want to do the book. And guess what? O&G's sucked so bad that even die-hard greenskin generals shelved their armies! Outright poorest, crapiest army rules Gw has ever released. (ie: you could give the O&G's player an extra 500pts and still kick the snot out of them with minimal effort!)

7th edition Daemons of Chaos: The book that killed an entire edition of Fantasy... It was so OP that GW was forced to simply blow-up the entire game and write a new edition that specifically nerfed Daemons! (and they're still pretty damn good right now, just not ludicrously beyond everyone else unless you pull out a Slaanesh Ld-bomb!)

Add to the the fact that GW has never once produced an even moderately balanced set of Daemon rules!
5th edition - almost as bad as 7th
6th edition - unplayable due to how borked Daemonic Instability was
7th edition - well, we know how this went!
8th edition - still an insta-win button



I want to try and stay positive about this, but for Fantasy players it's pretty damn hard.
We've had 2 OTT to outright game-breaking books, and one book that was so badly nerfed you'd honestly get laughed at for even suggesting to play said army from Mr.Ward. (on top of GW's historical fails at balancing our army in general)

I just have this sinking feeling that after seeing how heavily nerfed Flamers got in the WD updated, that Daemons are going to get the 7th ed O&G treatment.

Oh well, at least 40k looks pretty promising.
Maybe I'll finally be able to play my Daemons in Fantasy come 9th edition?!

Kelly doing the 40k daemons makes sense. Then he's done all of chaos. Basically he could have built a single giant codex with those two books which is kinda cool.

Well it's official now: Phil Kelly is doing 40k Daemons while Ward is doing Fantasy ones again.

Yay! All praise the Kelly! 6's be upon him!

Dat Khorne Herald is sweet.

The cover art is at least pretty damn good for 40k. Is that Skulltaker on the Fantasy cover, what with the flaming skulls in his left hand?

Still can't believe we haven't had better/clearer pictures by now.

He signed it 'Matthew Ward' this time. Maybe he's grown up? Could be a hope. Let's see how these two boys handle my favorite army...*sits back and taps fingers speculatively*

Now that we know the Authors, let's please not turn this into a Ward Hate/Kelly hate thread.

I was really hoping for Ward writing the 40K version though, oh well.

Still lacking in the new rules department though, lol. Need more than snippets!

So the skull cannon fires those annoying blighters from Doom, eh?

 Byte wrote:
Pretty cool times for 40k. Pretty fast release after DAs.

The release rate is completely unprecedented for GW. Three codicies and two supplment books since September is amazing. And look at the codicies they chose -- CSMs, DA, and CD. Those were the poster children for GW's "blandification" run -- apparently driven by Alessio -- during the middle of 4th ed. Eldar might yet come this year too. And their FAQ efforts have been hugely improved.

Unfortunately I think too much of the fan base is so focused on a few of GW's recent mistakes that they're missing some of the great stuff going on.

gorgon wrote:
The release rate is completely unprecedented for GW.

None of which excuses terribad model releases.

These daemons are shocking.

Mat Ward writing the Daemons army book? Still wondering why there is a new Warhammer Fantasy edition next year?

Never mind.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Mat Ward writing the Daemons army book?

How's the saying go: If at first you don't succeed...

Just to answer the question above.

Plague toads were on 40mm bases I thought

Qui-Gon Jinn wrote:
For those folks who responded to the Mat Ward picture that was quoted, I found that on /tg/. It turns out that someone trolled me big time. The actual author is Phil Kelly:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ar4YFfYsSgg/USXdMewlOeI/AAAAAAAAT68/jZWp-nVnSOI/s400/IMG_2224.JPG

I want to seriously injure the man who trolled me like that....*grrrrrrr*

ah, I apologize then my good man. Krump 'im up 'is tiny 'umie 'ead!

I'm somewhat relieved Kelly is doing daemons though, at least the fluff will be good, I'll reserve judgement though, and hope this release is more akin to DE.

also, I'm holding out hope for new Bloodthirster and LoC kits, hopefully in the second wave.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

gorgon wrote:
The release rate is completely unprecedented for GW.

None of which excuses terribad model releases.

These daemons are shocking.

I like to think I'm reasonably good with the creative aspect of the hobby, and I really can't make definitive opinions about the kits from those blurry pics, other than the overall designs. And those look to me to be very much in-line with current WFB and Daemon aesthetics. Which aren't everyone's cup of tea.

Still, we've seen this kind of drama with most recent releases, only to see opinions shift after people see clearer pics, the actual models, alternate color schemes, etc. It'd take a lot for anything in this bunch to come close to the 1-2 punch of terribad that was the Razorgor and Minotaurs kits.

ChaosDog wrote:
If the Nurgle drones really are jet-pack cavalry and not jet-bikes and their rules are any good, then I'm getting some Plague Toads. Plaguebearers riding giant toads bouncing all over the table sound hilarious and they are much better sculpts than the new flying anteaters.

Anyone have some of these? What size fantasy base do they come on and what size 40k base would they fit on?

Also shame both come in packs of three when everyone is going to want to run them in units of seven. You'd need to run 21 of the damn things to not waste any models. Don't think I'll be doing that. So I'll have to be unfluffy and have one unit of six.

They're 40mm Fantasy, which means that they're just a bit too small for 40mm round. 60mm bases would really be required.

ChaosDog wrote:Anyone have some of these? What size fantasy base do they come on and what size 40k base would they fit on?

buckero0 wrote:Plague toads were on 40mm bases I thought

IIRC mine came with 50mm bases (are on chariot ones right now ), or at any rate would overspill a 40mm pretty drastically ...

Props on the idea though, great use for far better models

EDIT I have a third one unbuilt, can pull him out and check for ya tonight

- Salvage

 Shandara wrote:
Cinematic!

Jet pack cavalry, I can see it useful to be able to pick what to use for charges and whatnot.

At HH 1, we have a new red shirt. He knows the word C..., but hmm not much otherwise.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Mat Ward writing the Daemons army book? Still wondering why there is a new Warhammer Fantasy edition next year?

The reason is Alessio Cavatore had his hand in it and they are not so happy that he is making warpath and kings of war in the same city GW is in. I bet they are also pissed about how well Bolt Action is doing.