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fundaemons wrote:Daemon Princes
warpsmithed armor with a 3+ armorsave for 20 points.
they can be made heavy support with the corresponding greater deamon (and charakter GD) fromt he same god

If this is true, it almost makes up for non-grenade daemonettes.

-1 attack and I is a bit of a blow, though, but the I doesn't matter too much, they are still as fast or faster than most units in the game (though they are now slower than harlies, I think, makes sense balance wise otherwise Troop unit would beat an elite unit (harlies are elites, aren't they?))

 Sersi wrote:
I can't say I'm happy with the changes to Slaanesh's units as I run Mono-slaanesh:

- Everyone except the KOS, Daemon Prince, and Heralds are -1 iniative.
- Daemonettes & Seekers: gained +1 WS, and +3" to run. But are - 1 initative, -1 attack, while losing offensive and defensive grenades.
Sure they're 5 pts less they lost 5 pts of rules! Noise marines should not have the same initative as a daemonette.
- KOS: gained +1 wound, +1 strength, and +1 WS; but lost her offensive and defensive grenades, along with access to Hit & Run, and Pavane.
- Fiends: gained +1 wound, but are -1 str, and lost Hit & Run. Their musk now grants a -1 LD bubble to enemy Psykers.
- +3" to run moves is no replacement for Hit & Run. The KOS needed to beast movement like WF.


I not quitting the Army or putting my models up on Ebay. But none of those unit changes were necessary. I've never met anyone who that Slaaneshi daemons were broken.

I think they dropped the initiative due to you now having lot's of slaanesh psykers giving everything -5 initiative and such, making these hit before anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 airmang wrote:
Hell blades are AP3 and don't forget bloodletters have rage and can re-roll their charge distance.

hellblades are AP4 in this new book. And I guess that makes sense since they are so damn cheap.

May have overlooked, any rumors on the stats of bloodthrone and cannon?

@Evileyes:

Do you have the Codex? Because other sources states that Hellblades are AP3.

Evileyes wrote:


hellblades are AP4 in this new book. And I guess that makes sense since they are so damn cheap.

Ninja'd

The more I am thinking these rumors the more it seems that certain builds are being favored, Large Blobs lead by a Heralds Or Flying MC Circus that is limited to the God of your HQ.

The War Lord table for Daemons is pretty good.

War Lord Table:

1) Warlord gains Instant Death USR

2) Warlord and his unit gain Hatred (Everything) USR

3) As long as the War Lord is alive, your opponent test for Fear at -1 LD

4) As Long as the War Lord is alive, units within 12” of the War Lord may re-roll Daemonic Instability

5) As long as the War Lord is alive, you may re-roll results on the Warp Storm Table

6) Units with the Daemon USR may Deep Strike within 6” of the War Lord without scatter.
Will this apply to C:CD only or can CSM allies benefit?

I wonder if some of the named HQ's have fixed Warlord traits. I can't see a time I would want to roll on the BRB chart compared to rolling on the Daemon on.


I think the strangest thing is the lack of synergy the rumors suggest that Daemons have with CSM. In a edition that allows allies you'd think the new codexs would take advantaged of it.

Yeah, last thing I saw (couple pages back) was from the fellow that was posting stuff from the guy that had the book on /tg/ which said they were AP3

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
There's nothing stating that they are procced by anything. Just they happen on that dice roll.

Works like the daemon world things in That expansion book.

They are procc'ed by the dice roll.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
There's nothing stating that they are procced by anything. Just they happen on that dice roll.

Works like the daemon world things in That expansion book.

They are procc'ed by the dice roll.

Yes, but not by any daemons currently in reserve/on the field.

Anyone have more specific info for the skull cannon or whatever it is for 40k?? Armor values, hull points, cost, squadrons?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Most HQ's Have 2+ saves as well.

That's not true. Go look through the books. Few HQs have a 2+ save. Go through the books, count the ICs with a 2+ save. The majority have a 3+ or worse save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Yes, but not by any daemons currently in reserve/on the field.

Sorry for splitting hairs, but isn't a proc a proc?
Your saying that its not a proc because its done by a dice roll and not daemons, but a proc is something that happens on random occurrences.

I think were debating semantics here.

I'm very excited for these Daemons!

I think I'll run an army of Khorne/Tzeentch.

Bloodthirster + Flying DPs + Tzeentch Heralds + Pink Horrors.

CleverAntics wrote:
Almost like they're getting Fantasy stats messed up with 40k here for stats and reporting 40k rules alongside them?

Yea, the pages leaked were fantasy pages. People are probably passing them over to 40k.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 yakface wrote:


Why?

S4 is superhuman Strength...Space Marines are S4 so why is it crazy that Bloodletters are as well (they were S4 in the last codex as well).

T4, again is superhuman Toughness, and combined with Feel No Pain & a 5+ invulnerable save still represents a very tough base-level creature, especially considering that they're cheaper in points now.


Seems fine to me, personally.

Then why are Daemon Princes only Toughness 4?

DPs are toughness 5 dude...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440199a&prodId=prod860026a

That's more than likely a mistake on GWs part.

The GW web site has been wrong many times in the past, don't take it as gosipal.

I sincerly hoping this is all a mistake or the fantasy codex being interpreted as the 40k codex, because my all Khorne army which I spent so much time on painting can now go in a shoebox or ebay. Im practically forced to buy more models and overlap with other chaos gods (which I dont want to...)

Oh and to that, that bloodthrone/cannon abomination.... seriously i make better looking conversions out of my bitsbox. (which I am free to do, I know, but it would have been nice if they brought out something that would at least correspond a little bit with the dark and grim future and the 40k novels and how khorne is portrayed in there....)

aliusexalio wrote:
I sincerly hoping this is all a mistake or the fantasy codex being interpreted as the 40k codex, because my all Khorne army which I spent so much time on painting can now go in a shoebox or ebay. Im practically forced to buy more models and overlap with other chaos gods (which I dont want to...)

Anytime your codex is redone, you can expect to buy more models. Its what GW does. It's how they keep you forking over the cash for the plastic crack.

You seem to be under the mis-impression that as of today Khorne is the way to go. Right now its "go Tzeentch or go home". Khorne is probably the weakest chaos god right now, and can get nothing but a power boost from this codex.

 labmouse42 wrote:


You seem to be under the mis-impression that as of today Khorne is the way to go. Right now its "go Tzeentch or go home". Khorne is probably the weakest chaos god right now, and can get nothing but a power boost from this codex.

Speed and mobility and a halfway decent save wins. Tzeentch covers most of that.

Nurgle and Slaanesh kind of compete for the second spot, but Slannesh characters have a faster get into combat speed, making them the better for an assault themed army.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Khorne is probably the weakest chaos god right now, and can get nothing but a power boost from this codex.

I wouldn't tempt them. I was thinking the same thing about Thousand Sons for the Chaos Marines, and look how they ended up.

Chrysis wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
Khorne is probably the weakest chaos god right now, and can get nothing but a power boost from this codex.

I wouldn't tempt them. I was thinking the same thing about Thousand Sons for the Chaos Marines, and look how they ended up.

Well, we have strong clues that CSM HQ will not be able to join daemon units. (though this might be miitgated if heralds cancel instability)

What we have not seen is limitiations of heralds joining CSM. If heralds do get special abilities (shrouded) that can pass onto the unit, there might be some surprising combinations we don't currently expect.

Before I put the nail on the coffin for T-Sons or Bezerkers I'm going to wait and see what the story is with daemons. There might be some potentional there. It might be complete garbage. The only way we will know is to be patient and wait till the release. (or more leaked images)

 labmouse42 wrote:

aliusexalio wrote:
I sincerly hoping this is all a mistake or the fantasy codex being interpreted as the 40k codex, because my all Khorne army which I spent so much time on painting can now go in a shoebox or ebay. Im practically forced to buy more models and overlap with other chaos gods (which I dont want to...)

Anytime your codex is redone, you can expect to buy more models. Its what GW does. It's how they keep you forking over the cash for the plastic crack.

You seem to be under the mis-impression that as of today Khorne is the way to go. Right now its "go Tzeentch or go home". Khorne is probably the weakest chaos god right now, and can get nothing but a power boost from this codex.

I was okay with it not being the best army. I was also aware that Tzeentch was more competitive. However right now I fail to see how Khorne is getting any kind of boost? Reroll charge distance? Great, with demonic assault I could deepstrike all over the board, now I've got to actually WALK my units of bloodletters across the table with their 3 TOUGHNESS and then charge into a space marine tactical squad which previously I had a chance of killing because of my AP3 hellblades (which was fair because I'd lose about half the squad in 1 shooting phase and the subsequent overwatch).... but now?

And then 45 points for a T4 3 wounds bulletmagnet, aka Bloodcrusher? Which again only has an AP4 weapon? Why on earth even consider putting it in your army?


Bloodthirster, strenght 6????? I mean seriously, my army is now utter gak. I don't mind not being the best, I don't mind being the least best, but I sure mind being worthless.

Oh to end my rant "none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl``

Well, we have strong clues that CSM HQ will not be able to join daemon units. (though this might be miitgated if heralds cancel instability)

Well no. Heralds don't make the unit LOSE the special Rule instability surely? If anything it'd just mean they are no longer affected by it. Kinda like Fearless.

HEllblades are AP3. Also those bloodletters can still deep strike. We were told in the latest WD that ALL daemon units have the deep strike rule. How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster? It still wounds most things on 2's and if need be can smash for S10. Bloodcrushers are very fast now and have 5 attacks on the charge, and hammer of wrath for funsies. And There's still a lot we don't know too...

 airmang wrote:
HEllblades are AP3. Also those bloodletters can still deep strike. We were told in the latest WD that ALL daemon units have the deep strike rule. How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster? It still wounds most things on 2's and if need be can smash for S10. Bloodcrushers are very fast now and have 5 attacks on the charge, and hammer of wrath for funsies. And There's still a lot we don't know too...

Because the Bloodthirster model doesn't look like a S6 creature. It looks at least as tough as the Wraithlord for example and for those of us who want to see connections between rules and models this is just too weird. Yes I know that with Smash it gets to do S10 attacks but 3 S10 attacks from a Bloodthirster model which costs 250 points is still not right in my opinion.

2 str 10 hits from a flyrant when it smashes...

230 points. Don't whine.

As stated it does feel like some fantasy and 40k stats are being intermingled.

In any case I welcome daemon hordes because thats what Iv usually played them as.

Chaospling wrote:
It looks at least as tough as the Wraithlord for example

Who is to say that a Wraithlord won't be S6 (or even 5?!) when the new Eldar Codex comes out? It seems like the scale has changed somewhat going by the numbers being tossed about. I am used to it being higher as well, but with the abilty to smash and other MC rules, perhaps the days of 10 10 10 10 aren't as needed in the profile.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Most HQ's Have 2+ saves as well.

That's not true. Go look through the books. Few HQs have a 2+ save. Go through the books, count the ICs with a 2+ save. The majority have a 3+ or worse save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Yes, but not by any daemons currently in reserve/on the field.

Sorry for splitting hairs, but isn't a proc a proc?
Your saying that its not a proc because its done by a dice roll and not daemons, but a proc is something that happens on random occurrences.

I think were debating semantics here.

Well the way you stated it was that it was like you required X daemon to have X effect work on the field at all, so if you didn't have X, it didn't proc at all.

But anyways, I'll count the Base IC's by race (I'll count some MC's too)
None in CD
CSM has Abbadon, Typhus, The Warpsmith, and the gift of mutation FleshMetal. HQ's can take Terminator Armor
DE has Drazhar.
Eldar has All the Phoenix lords. (6)
GK has ALL the HQ's but Inquisitor Valeriao/Xeno/Heraticus. Ordo Mallus can take Terminator
IQ has none
Necrons have Imhotek, Obyron, Nemesor, Overlords/Destroyers/lords can take 2+
Orks have Ghazgkull, Warboss can take Mega armor
Sisters have Celestine.
C:SM has Sicarus, Lysander, Vulkan, Master of the Forge, HQ's can take Artificer/Terminator
Black Templar have the Emporers Champion. Can take Terminator/Artificer for HQ.
Blood Angels have Astorath, Tycho, Dante, Mephiston, Sanguinor, Can take terminator armor/artificer for HQ.
Dark Angels have Azrael, Belial, Ezekial, HQ's can take Terminator armor.
Space Wolves have Logan, Njal, can take terminator/Artificer armor
Tau Commander can take 2+
Tyranids can take 2+ on Hive Tyrant

 airmang wrote:
HEllblades are AP3. Also those bloodletters can still deep strike. We were told in the latest WD that ALL daemon units have the deep strike rule. How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster? It still wounds most things on 2's and if need be can smash for S10. Bloodcrushers are very fast now and have 5 attacks on the charge, and hammer of wrath for funsies. And There's still a lot we don't know too...

Ah... okay, well I guess that makes it less crappy, thanks for that little bit of reassurance , but still... I guess the result is that im forced to get another 20 bloodletters and rethink my army a bit...

The amount of rage here is incredible. It's like everyone consciously forgets what happened the last dozen codices or so.

You want to sell your armies? That's fine. I need more nurgle for my T4 horde army with shrouded.