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Eh, yeah its possible but If I saw that on the table I would do everything in my power to make sure that battle squad never got even close to being within range.

Its like your counting on your opponent to just let it happen. And I wouldn't count on combos like that for my lists. Its very easy to see coming and you have to have both units very close to their target

 Noir Eternal wrote:
Eh, yeah its possible but If I saw that on the table I would do everything in my power to make sure that battle squad never got even close to being within range.

Its like your counting on your opponent to just let it happen. And I wouldn't count on combos like that for my lists

Well slaanesh is rediculously fast, can deep strike, and the psyker battle squad has a range of 36", so it would be hard to make sure that the power doesn't go off at least once or twice


And you think about it, even if it does only go off once, you are going to KILL a unit. The total cost of the herald and a 10 man pbs is like 175, so if the unit is worth more than that, you've made your points back in one go...

thisisnotpancho wrote:

 Noir Eternal wrote:
Eh, yeah its possible but If I saw that on the table I would do everything in my power to make sure that battle squad never got even close to being within range.

Its like your counting on your opponent to just let it happen. And I wouldn't count on combos like that for my lists

Well slaanesh is rediculously fast, can deep strike, and the psyker battle squad has a range of 36", so it would be hard to make sure that the power doesn't go off at least once or twice

I have played around with something similar. Chaos Sorc with Shriek and a PBS. It never worked.

Ok I'll give you that your maybe able to get that off once or twice, but I would have rather Slaanesh being good on its own, and not needing another Codex that will probably lose that Psychic power once its redone to be good. And thats really the issue, alone or even with its brother codex Chaos Space Marines, the powers are terrible

Raziel 02/27/13(Wed)22:28 No.23425343

yes. a unit cannot be joined by a unit with instability. also units with instability cant take IC's without it.

For all the work GW put into defining the various types of allies, they sure are going out of their way to make sure that no benefits from one book can ever affect units from another, even when such things make perfect sense (Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons, or Black Templars and Eldar).

Mohoc wrote:
Raziel 02/27/13(Wed)22:28 No.23425343

yes. a unit cannot be joined by a unit with instability. also units with instability cant take IC's without it.

Do Heralds have Daemonic Instability? If not then they could join units from CSM

Yup, BA Chappy Honor of the Chapter, faqed to be for BA units only.

Same for all the Sm Chappys that comes from a 5th Dex.

nearly 80% of rules that affects numerous units, has been faqed as only working for that perticular codex units, so whats the point in taking allies?...

yeah you can still use their units, yadda,yadda, but it will be a portion of your army, who doesn't work with the rest of the army's rules, worst of it if some stuffs are taken as Allies, their rules and bonuses can only affect their detachment.

Also CSm and Deamons are maybe the only two armies who have Battle Brother, who isn't that much better then some Allies of Convinience(Circumstances?).

really, Thanks GW , you and your brillant mind plots...

thisisnotpancho wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
Raziel 02/27/13(Wed)22:28 No.23425343

yes. a unit cannot be joined by a unit with instability. also units with instability cant take IC's without it.

Do Heralds have Daemonic Instability? If not then they could join units from CSM

yes they do have DI

By the way,

The Changeling, Karanak and Skulltaker are now Heralds.

Can take up to 4 Heralds counting as 1 HQ slot in a Primary detachment.

40k-noob wrote:

thisisnotpancho wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
Raziel 02/27/13(Wed)22:28 No.23425343

yes. a unit cannot be joined by a unit with instability. also units with instability cant take IC's without it.

Do Heralds have Daemonic Instability? If not then they could join units from CSM

yes they do have DI

By the way,

The Changeling, Karanak and Skulltaker are now Heralds.

Can take up to 4 Heralds counting as 1 HQ slot in a Primary detachment.

Sorry if I'm splitting hairs here, but do the Special Character Heralds count as only taking up one in four, or do they take up a full slot because they are a special character?

I know the Changeling now has the swap-stats-in-base-contact thing, but does it also still do the hijack-enemy's-shooting thing?

Raziel on the warp storm table (based on my translation the other day)

5: its correct but its "ignores cover and barrage" wich does pinning but also hase different applications on ruins and buildings with multiple platforms. also you can "snipe" models with the plate this way because of how barrage works. cover is also taken differently.
6: accurate but the player wich owns the unit decides wich models are hit
7: accurate
8: accurate
9: also accurate but still its barrage so also able to snipe with it like the tzeentch one. aswell as pinning.

 Sasori wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

thisisnotpancho wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
Raziel 02/27/13(Wed)22:28 No.23425343

yes. a unit cannot be joined by a unit with instability. also units with instability cant take IC's without it.

Do Heralds have Daemonic Instability? If not then they could join units from CSM

yes they do have DI

By the way,

The Changeling, Karanak and Skulltaker are now Heralds.

Can take up to 4 Heralds counting as 1 HQ slot in a Primary detachment.

Sorry if I'm splitting hairs here, but do the Special Character Heralds count as only taking up one in four, or do they take up a full slot because they are a special character?

the rule says this exactly:

Codex:Chaos Daemons wrote:Heralds of Chaos
Each primary detachament in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:
*Herald of Khorne
*Karanak
*The Changeling
*Herald of Nurgle
*Skulltaker
*Herald of Tzeentch
*Epidimius
*Herald of Slaanesh

This selection uses a single HQ slot from the force organisation chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units.

Codex:Chaos Daemons wrote:Heralds of Chaos
Each primary detachament in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:
*Herald of Khorne
*Karanak
*The Changeling
*Herald of Nurgle
*Skulltaker
*Herald of Tzeentch
*Epidimius
*Herald of Slaanesh

This selection uses a single HQ slot from the force organisation chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units.

This must be missing the Blue Scribes and the Masque. They just released a Scribes model less than a year ago, they wouldn't get rid of them now. Plus I thought we already had confirmation on both of them?

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

Codex:Chaos Daemons wrote:Heralds of Chaos
Each primary detachament in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:
*Herald of Khorne
*Karanak
*The Changeling
*Herald of Nurgle
*Skulltaker
*Herald of Tzeentch
*Epidimius
*Herald of Slaanesh

This selection uses a single HQ slot from the force organisation chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units.

This must be missing the Blue Scribes and the Masque. They just released a Scribes model less than a year ago, they wouldn't get rid of them now. Plus I thought we already had confirmation on both of them?

Not gone, but apparently no longer Heralds either. Just HQ's now

 Hulksmash wrote:

I fully intend to get something up on my blog next week. Gonna have 10+ hours to spitball on my drive back from the Indy Open with some of the local guys so there should be some thoughts starting to come around

It's always nice to have people who enjoy your opinion on things

Why haven't you updated the URL in your profile to go to your blog? I know you've got a link in your sig, but are you still doing the painting service? If so, how come you don't have like a link from the painting service page to your blog?

Just wondering...

Reading that warp storm table, the original german rumor was pretty close and unlike the Fantasy version, this one is pretty darn fool proof... until you blow yourself up.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
For all the work GW put into defining the various types of allies, they sure are going out of their way to make sure that no benefits from one book can ever affect units from another, even when such things make perfect sense (Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons, or Black Templars and Eldar).

Well, in the case of CSM and CD, the main benefit of being battle brothers is going to be the ability to cast psychic powers on units from either codex.

At least to me it makes sense that CSM IC's can't join Daemon units (and vice versa) because although they're allies, they still are very different types of beings. I don't see CSM taking very well to taking direct oders from a full-on Daemon that has just materialized, and conversely I can't see Daemons themselves feeling goo about taking orders from a mortal.


When you get to other codexes, you still have a lot of cross-pollination between battle brothers. Not so much in the super-special rules that apply to all units within X" kind of things, but certainly when you're talking about an IC with a USR joining a unit and granting it onto them.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 yakface wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Not as good as a Tzeentch herald on disc with the +d6 St power, daemonic weapon, and prescience joined to a 9 screamer unit

It's looking like this book, just like the CSM and DA, is going to provide a plethora of ways to play the army

Hulk,

Once you get your hands on the book make sure you post your initial thoughts ASAP.

I've always wanted to play a Daemons army since they released the last codex, but never pulled the trigger. I like what I'm reading here so far (minus all the random roll abilities that I'll have to figure out a way to keep track of for each model) but it looks SO very different from the last codex that I don't know where to begin...so I'm definitely looking for a non-jaded vet Daemon player (that would be you) to give me some good starting pointers to think about.

I fully intend to get something up on my blog next week. Gonna have 10+ hours to spitball on my drive back from the Indy Open with some of the local guys so there should be some thoughts starting to come around

It's always nice to have people who enjoy your opinion on things

Agreed. Can't wait. You are my go to for Daemon opinions.

Something of interest I don't think I've seen noted is that the banner doesn't say it has to start the turn on the board in order to guide in deep strikers like the ones in other codexes do, and the instruments let you bring another unit of Daemons in with you automatically when you pass your reserve roll (along with giving you rerolls on the Warp Storm nukes).

Edit: Also, to clarify the 3rd Slaanesh locus, it prevents the opposing player from refusing challenges and allows you to pick who accepts. You can still refuse a challenge with the herald if you so desire.

 yakface wrote:
Well, in the case of CSM and CD, the main benefit of being battle brothers is going to be the ability to cast psychic powers on units from either codex.

That makes it even more artificial. We can share our powers, but nothing else?

With CSM and CD there's already something of a built in mechanic - the Chaos Gods. Just allow units aligned with a specific Chaos God to benefit from the abilities/special rules/auras/banners/etc. of the same God, even if it's from the other book. It makes fluff sense, and it should be fairly easy to figure out.

It mightn't be balanced (but nothing about allies is balanced), but it wouldn't be as arbitrary or pointless as it is right now.

40k-noob wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

Codex:Chaos Daemons wrote:Heralds of Chaos
Each primary detachament in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos, chosen in any combination from the following models:
*Herald of Khorne
*Karanak
*The Changeling
*Herald of Nurgle
*Skulltaker
*Herald of Tzeentch
*Epidimius
*Herald of Slaanesh

This selection uses a single HQ slot from the force organisation chart, but the Heralds are otherwise treated as separate units.

This must be missing the Blue Scribes and the Masque. They just released a Scribes model less than a year ago, they wouldn't get rid of them now. Plus I thought we already had confirmation on both of them?

Not gone, but apparently no longer Heralds either. Just HQ's now

Are you sure they are HQ. I could see GW moving them to elite.

Fluff wise neither are heralds nor do they lead other deamons. Haven't seen any info on the blue scribes, hope they use the same mechanic as did in whfb. Wonder what invo the masque has. People are not going to like it when she stops their best cc unit from charging or stops their best dakka unit from shooting and end up focusing a lot of dakka at her..

Blue Scribes and Masque are both listed in the same area of the HQ section as the Heralds. However, neither are mentioned in the "Heralds of Chaos" section which says explicitly which units are part of the 4 for 1 deal. It might be FAQ'd in the future, but as written, they take a full HQ slot.

Edit: These 2 are the ones that are not Independant Characters. The "Heralds of Chaos" callout specifies that "Heralds of Chaos can form a unit on the tabletop as long as they all share the same daemonic alignment." which would not be valid if those two were included.

Does seem odd that Skulltaker would be a Herald yet the Masque isn't.

He's an Independent Character and not a Greater Daemon, and that's apparently the 2 requirements for Heraldness.

Hmmm, I'm already thinking up an army list with a pseudo-flying circus theme with this new codex.... though allied with CSM.

Daemon Prince w, Black Mace + 3 Heldrakes + 2 min-sized Cultist squads allied in with the supposed optimal build Bloodthirster at 280, and assuming another Daemon Prince at that price with a full squad of Screamers and Horrors.....

That's still under 2000 points and only the Heldrakes are in reserve (which can be trimmed depending on the need.

Gah, can't wait for this codex to officially come out!

In HQ Section Karanak and i think Der Wechelsbalg is the Changelin, but my German is a bit rusty...

karanak T5 W3 WS7 A4, Flesh Hounds T4 W2 WS5 .

When i look at this a allied detachment list is emerging for my CSM, Herald of Khorne on a Blood throne, 1 unit of Fleshounds+Karanak, Nurglings base as troop, and a Skull Canon or a Soulgrinder, Letters are laughable and you know my point of view on the new Crushers.

Skulltaker isn't even worth his 100pts, take a 45pts Herald, give a jugger+25(?), and a Axe of Khorne+Presence and another Major gift+ 3+ save, he does what the Skulltaker does and even better and is cheaper...

Of what i can make out of the Skull cannon(Schadelkanone), its S8 AP5!!!!, seriously AP5?..., but ignores Cover(with AP5 whats the point?...) and Grausige Schadel, is the rule about Khorne deamons assaulting through cover and count as having assault Nades.

Skulltaker is 45 more points than a Herald and that gets you 2 WS, 2BS, 3I, 1A, +3 to AS, EW, Soul Blaze, Decapitating Blow. You're stuck with lesser loci (for free, that's 10 points) and have to Challenge/accept. I'd say that's a pretty well spent 45 points.

Yeah, only EW really saves him in my eyes, could care les of Soulblaze really...

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Daemon Prince w, Black Mace + 3 Heldrakes + 2 min-sized Cultist squads allied in with the supposed optimal build Bloodthirster at 280, and assuming another Daemon Prince at that price with a full squad of Screamers and Horrors.....

I would expect the "Daemon princes as Heavy Support" to have a similar limitation to CSM's "Noise Marines as Troops," i.e., it only works in the Primary Detachment.

I'd love to be wrong, though.